ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
They don't seem to need much leading, that's been happening for a very long time.
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Social licence questions again.
- Thread starter ycbm
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They don't seem to need much leading, that's been happening for a very long time.
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eahotson
Well-Known Member
How much more challenging do you want them to be.People have always taken short cuts in their training but it is getting worse the higher the challenges are set.
tristar
Well-Known Member
he said today if he is elected he will end the ukraine russian war in 24 hours, can`t wait to see that
sbloom
Well-Known Member
I think it depends what type of challenge, not necessarily how high. People dismiss the old cross country tracks and I think have on here, as "galloping" tracks - well they were, but they could have tricky terrain integrated into the course which had its own extra level of challenge.
Getting rid of roads and tracks has clearly had its own effects, FEI dressage has dumbed down, the double reinback has gone, the allowing of being ON the vertical only came in maybe 25 years ago, and now we have the qualitative requirements reduced to guidelines. So in some ways the tests get harder but then we pander by making the rules easier. It's insane - money talks and this means the big money that's in the biggest sponsors, breeders and dealers (thinking of those huge names in dressage who have fingers in all sorts of pies in particular).
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eahotson
Well-Known Member
There is a lot in what you say.Of course we want challenge,fair at whatever level of competition because there is no point otherwise but it should not be at the expense of the horse.The challenge should be the rider's not the horses.High level dressage has become IMHO disgusting.
eahotson
Well-Known Member
Agree
sbloom
Well-Known Member
stangs
Well-Known Member
As challenging as it takes to have good competition. I'm not a course designer, nor do I know any stats, so I can't be more specific than that.
I don't think it's the challenge that's the issue (at least in SJ, where horses' lives aren't at stake, and where the horses aren't being bred to be biomechanic disasters); it's the mindset of using gadgets that's the problem, and we'll only see changes in that with further FEI tack restrictions, as well as stronger penalties for those caught breaking such restrictions.
paddy555
Well-Known Member
let's hope you are using the correct tense here
Snow Falcon
Hoping for drier days
Horse welfare at any level is vital to the animals well-being. I, for one, don't like seeing pictures of winning show horses that would challenge the highest scoee on the obesity chart.
I think we need to be very careful as horse "sports" are seemingly more in the public eye in terms of abuse these days and in my opinion under threat.
I think we need to be very careful as horse "sports" are seemingly more in the public eye in terms of abuse these days and in my opinion under threat.
eahotson
Well-Known Member
People use those
Thank you for that.You have explained the whole thing very well.
sbloom
Well-Known Member
I've always, probably subconsciously, wondered at the "scare the rider" approach to courses, it certainly seems to leave horses much more vulnerable to terrible falls, and frangible pins only seem to go so far. It's a bit of anthropomorphism, a bit of ego centric arrogant human stuff generally but it does ignore the horse's mental ability. If we're testing the ultimate combo why would be not want the horse to be part of the problem solving, instead he's turned into a machine to simply do the rider's bidding and we have lost those "fifth legs" that should still be part of breeding programmes but surely can't be, when this is the standard to which we're judging horses? Far from horse-centric.
Flame_
Well-Known Member
Animals should really have no place in human ego battles, ie competitions.
They already do though, established when no one knew any better so that's the status quo, we enjoy it so much and there's so much money and industry dependent on it that we can carry on for a while.
I do it, occasionally, competing, and I love Badminton, NH racing, etc. Total hypocrite because my conscience says it's not right really.
They already do though, established when no one knew any better so that's the status quo, we enjoy it so much and there's so much money and industry dependent on it that we can carry on for a while.
I do it, occasionally, competing, and I love Badminton, NH racing, etc. Total hypocrite because my conscience says it's not right really.
Maddie Moo
Well-Known Member
The FEI posted this on social media a couple of months ago. I called them out on it but apparently according to some people, it’s just ‘a moment in time’.
I always call out people who post videos of horses showing stereotypies used as a ‘fun’ marketing tool by companies or owners. My comments have a tendency to get deleted when I do that on Instagram but they have no such luck on Twitter!
I always call out people who post videos of horses showing stereotypies used as a ‘fun’ marketing tool by companies or owners. My comments have a tendency to get deleted when I do that on Instagram but they have no such luck on Twitter!
sbloom
Well-Known Member
Did you see the absolutely hopping lame vaulting horse at FEI champs? In many ways these horses have the hardest job and yet...keep calling them out!
Crazy_cat_lady
Well-Known Member
I'm surprised vaulting is still allowed, animals have been banned in circuses now... The horses can't have a great life, unless they get to do other activities?
What is the need for the horse - why can't they invent a mechanical one that goes in a circle?
What is the need for the horse - why can't they invent a mechanical one that goes in a circle?
LEC
Opinions are like bum holes, everyone has one.
This is not comparable in level…. That’s an intermediate/adv question with the trake and trakes have been around since the 1950s. The top question I would expect a 4yo to do. Completely disagree about Roads and tracks and actually loathe that as an answer. So many horses broke down or came home exhausted and on the whole would never go past 13/14 years of age. I love seeing 18yo horses looking amazing and enjoying their job still having been 5* warriors.
The truth is training is better and the old style courses had a lot of issues and wouldn’t be a competition. Horses are also better. Who knew 50 years of specialised breeding would produce better athletes? There is a reason you don’t see coloured horses at top level or Connie x like you used to - they don’t have enough athleticism.
stormox
Well-Known Member
That is a serious accusation.....
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ponynutz
Well-Known Member
Level wise it’s also important to note that a lot of those competing this year commented on the sticky ground which only made the course even harder. One girl I follow retired 80% of the way round XC thanks to the sticky ground.
Hepsibah
Well-Known Member
Being a "good" rider doesn't make you a good horseman. I have much more respect for the rider for whom their mount's wellbeing is more important than a ribbon, metallic or frilly.
Maddie Moo
Well-Known Member
I didn’t! Is there a video of it somewhere?
Interestingly, the FEI have never given out a warning or yellow card for vaulting. I guess because it isn’t as mainstream, things get hidden a lot easier from the public.
Also I’m not sure how so much tack is legal? Especially on the grey when it seems to be pressing right over the nasal peak. Initially I thought it was one of those anatomical bridles but the more I look at it, the more o think it’s two separate nosebands. These are the same rider at Kentucky (I gather from SM she has a bit of a poor reputation to put it mildly….)
paddy555
Well-Known Member
This is the final line in the HH article referred to in the opening post of this thread
I don’t care how other people choose to live their lives, so would ask others to show similar respect to ours.
The problem for me is that I also don't care how others choose to live their lives. It really doesn't bother me until we throw a horse into the mix and at that stage then it does start to concern others.
I don’t care how other people choose to live their lives, so would ask others to show similar respect to ours.
The problem for me is that I also don't care how others choose to live their lives. It really doesn't bother me until we throw a horse into the mix and at that stage then it does start to concern others.
honetpot
Well-Known Member
It's a yes from me. I watched a lot of SJ in the 70's, a lot of local shows had the big name riders, now I never watch, I have seen and heard too much. The end never justifies the means.
Crazy_cat_lady
Well-Known Member
How much tack?! The grey looks like he has 3 nosebands on
sbloom
Well-Known Member
Some food for thought on a topic that is sure to upset some horse people. Does the industry love the horse or the sport more? What do our actions say... | By Milestone Equestrian | Facebook
Some food for thought on a topic that is sure to upset some horse people. Does the industry love the horse or the sport more? What do our actions say...
fb.watch
LEC
Opinions are like bum holes, everyone has one.
Ummm I have mixed feelings about this for every unrideable horse is a myriad of reasons that caused it, bad management, poor breeding, poor upbringing, poor training and it goes on and on. The reality is very few unrideable horses actually are unrideable due to old age. Most horses don’t even compete as competition riders area on this forum demonstrates where it has become less competition orientated over the years and a much higher focus on alternative training. I just think that it’s more nuanced and less cut and dry that that one opinion is being a bit binary.Some food for thought on a topic that is sure to upset some horse people. Does the industry love the horse or the sport more? What do our actions say... | By Milestone Equestrian | Facebook
Some food for thought on a topic that is sure to upset some horse people. Does the industry love the horse or the sport more? What do our actions say...
paddy555
Well-Known Member
thanks for posting. Hadn't heard of this person before. Some of her posts look interesting.Some food for thought on a topic that is sure to upset some horse people. Does the industry love the horse or the sport more? What do our actions say... | By Milestone Equestrian | Facebook
Some food for thought on a topic that is sure to upset some horse people. Does the industry love the horse or the sport more? What do our actions say...
Ratface
Well-Known Member
When I was in the local Pony Club (1950's) our District Commissioner was Colonel Warren Wofford, the husband of Dawn Palethorpe, a well-known showjumper.
He was stern, patient up to a point and instructed us to think about a productive and kind alliance with our mounts.
His favourite trick was to replace our reins with paper ones, like Christmas decorative chains. He had dozens of them! We had to demonstrate that we could control our ponies at all gaits using these and a single-jointed snaffle.
When that was consistently achieved, he progressed to teach us to safely ride bareback, including jumping and gymkhana games.
It taught us to use balance, tact and foresight. Also humility.
Seventy years on, I still use these skills with the sharp, "up for a laugh" Old Arabian. He's a retired Grade B showjumper, and won at some major shows. If he's hung onto he fights you every step, and his ears end up in your mouth. It's a lot easier and more profitable to negotiate the round with him. I've never used a martingale on him, or any sort of restrictive noseband. Jumping at home, I've used a french link eggbut snaffle, in competions, a double reined Pelham. We've usually placed in the top three, depending on the efficiency of the brakes and steering. As he's got older, he's become more determined that he knows best.
I think we'll have to stick to trotting poles in future.
He was stern, patient up to a point and instructed us to think about a productive and kind alliance with our mounts.
His favourite trick was to replace our reins with paper ones, like Christmas decorative chains. He had dozens of them! We had to demonstrate that we could control our ponies at all gaits using these and a single-jointed snaffle.
When that was consistently achieved, he progressed to teach us to safely ride bareback, including jumping and gymkhana games.
It taught us to use balance, tact and foresight. Also humility.
Seventy years on, I still use these skills with the sharp, "up for a laugh" Old Arabian. He's a retired Grade B showjumper, and won at some major shows. If he's hung onto he fights you every step, and his ears end up in your mouth. It's a lot easier and more profitable to negotiate the round with him. I've never used a martingale on him, or any sort of restrictive noseband. Jumping at home, I've used a french link eggbut snaffle, in competions, a double reined Pelham. We've usually placed in the top three, depending on the efficiency of the brakes and steering. As he's got older, he's become more determined that he knows best.
I think we'll have to stick to trotting poles in future.
SatansLittleHelper
Well-Known Member
Just a thought on this but surely, in that case, a pro rider could do all of these things with minimal tack...not more??
stangs
Well-Known Member
What she's saying isn't competition specific. People almost always buy horses because they want to ride, whether that be going out for hacks or doing PSG. (Alternative folk like riding too!) It's not necessarily wrong, but you also can't say that your ultimate priority is the care of a specific animal, if you then choose to move them on for the sake of your goals. A change of home - a new routine, new carers, new conspecifics, will almost always be stressful for a horse, even if they're going to be in a better home. It's not a decision that comes with no consequences for the horse.
In the end, ownership is a huge expense to commit to if you can't achieve what you're trying to achieve (whether that be moving up the levels or just riding). For most people, that goal is not just owning a horse, regardless of what they can do with it. It shouldn't be a surprise, because most of us have our first experiences with horses, the ones that make fall in love, in the saddle.
It's not exactly news that people don't tend to buy unridden horses, and criticism of people who think it's a good idea to sell on an older and unridden horse isn't uncommon, especially on this forum.
My boy can't stand up to ridden work anymore due to historically being poorly managed, and ridden into the ground by previous owners. Ten separate people have told me what a 'sacrifice' I've made to have him, which tells you their thoughts on keeping an unridden. And I'm not much better either - the only reason I bought him, knowing he couldn't be ridden anymore, was because I'd known him in the past. I wouldn't have bought another horse in his situation that I didn't have some emotional ties to.