Spaniel Puppy Advice/Vent

Forgive me, I haven't had time to read all the posts yet but my impression is that you are trying to bend over backwards to accommodate this puppy. He is what he is and you are the ones adapting to him (and struggling with it).

This can work. It can work really well but he needs to be in a different part of your head. You do need to change ---but not your furniture/his bed/house layout/fences --you need a change of attitude. You are his 4 th home in 4 months. He will be bewildered and not knowing where to turn. In a very kind way, you need rules and a "leave the decisions to me, I am in charge here" attitude and i think you need help with that.

If you intend to keep him I would strongly advise a consultation with a good dog behaviourist. Yes it will be expensive if you choose wisely but you actually need a small change of direction to end up in a different place and you need to do it now.
 
Dog training and behaviour is unregulated. There are very good people and there are a lot of people who are just good at web sites and charisma.

If you go down this route look for someone trained by the Association of Pet Behaviour Councillors. (APBC).

Find an APBC Member | Certified Pet Behaviourists

Search for qualified APBC members near you for expert help with pet behaviour challenges. Verified professionals across the UK.
www.apbc.org.uk www.apbc.org.uk
 
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Not aimed at anyone in particular, but if we could possibly move on from the whole 'dog is deciding not to behave/listen' thing, especially young dogs. They're not being willfully disobedient, very few dogs have that sort of decision-making process, they just don't understand/know the behaviour properly. It generally takes hundreds of repetitions of the **correct** behaviour to solidify/proof anything.

If I say 'sit' and the dog understands that sit means sit in all conditions/situations, it will sit. If it doesn't, that's on me for not proofing it properly.
 
Could you swap out a side table/ bedside locker/ coffee table for a while and put a crate instead with a piece of wood and throw over it?

Also for me the crate Is the dog only so wouldn't be allowing the cat in. My dogs safe space now is their bed and the kids are absolutely blanket ruled not allowed go near them in it. Every one needs a space they can retreat to and not be interacted with
 
silv said:
This, he is only a pup, I think you are expecting quite alot from him. Can you find out if there are any puppy socialisation classes nearby, you might find that helpful. They are usually able to give advice on training pups too. Having a pup is HARD work, I got one in November and he is so boisterous and sometimes I wondered if I had done the right thing, but he is great 95% of the time and I love him dearly, , when you haven't had one for a few years you forget how much work and effort is required. I know in another couple of months he will be 100% and it will all have been worth is.
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I know he will end up being an amazing dog but right now, it's completely falling down to my poor cats who are currently out in the pouring rain because they're too scared to come into their home. They just about manage to come in to eat with a lot of encouragement before sprinting back out again. I can't do this to them. They're nearly 10 years old, it's so so unfair. I'm completely torn because I love the pup too and want to give it more time but this isn't fair on anyone.
 
The cats will adjust to the dog but it takes time (more than 2 weeks) and you need to train the dog to ignore the cat. Several friends have bought dogs/puppies already owning cats and now all of them get on well. Cats need a place to feel safe where the dog can't get and vice versa - which room do your cats feel safe in, do not allow dog into that room.

You're going to struggle without a crate, time and a trainer.
 
ArklePig said:
Could you consider baby Gates etc while he's still learning? a little stretch of landing/hallway could be a good place to allow him to still see you but still learn to settle?

The other thing I'm wondering if there's anything you can harness into a job for your pup? I have a spaniel cross (other half being pointer so pretty bonkers), and her job is gym. It taps into the gundog abilities to focus on her owner and then do short bursts of mental stimulation. My husband does whatever it is he does out in the garage and between sets she is sent to retrieve various things and follow specific commands. really works for her. This supplements more low key sniffy walks on and off lead. Once a week I do take her to an enclosed park and let her act the hallion.

He's still a baby so I'd also look into some sort of home from home based daycare or someone to pop in and be with him. A very solid routine he feels secure with should help.

I feel for you OP, my dog was very tough work in the beginning- she wasn't a puppy but it was a good 3 months before things got tolerable and 6 months before I felt like we all settled into our lives together. After a year I was able to fully relax about her.

Whatever you decide to do I hope you can be happy with your decision.
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We have baby gates everywhere now, he's learned to jump them all. 🙈
We do a lot of games, hunting for things etc but he never seems to settle. I know this will come with time but I'm torn between time and my cats.
 
GrassChop said:
I know he will end up being an amazing dog but right now, it's completely falling down to my poor cats who are currently out in the pouring rain because they're too scared to come into their home. They just about manage to come in to eat with a lot of encouragement before sprinting back out again. I can't do this to them. They're nearly 10 years old, it's so so unfair. I'm completely torn because I love the pup too and want to give it more time but this isn't fair on anyone.
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Do you have a garden, outside space or yard? If so, can you make a temporary sheltered area for the cats so they can get out of the rain, and perhaps feeding them there would be easier too. This would give you a breathing space whilst you work on a solution with the puppy. However, if you do decide to rehome the pup then please only do so through a responsible charity such as Spaniel Aid who will ensure that pup goes to a suitable new home. If you rehome privately chances are the pup will end up in another unsuitable environment.
 
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GrassChop said:
We have baby gates everywhere now, he's learned to jump them all. 🙈
We do a lot of games, hunting for things etc but he never seems to settle. I know this will come with time but I'm torn between time and my cats.
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He needs a crate!! Crates train them to settle. None of our spaniels would settle without their crate as puppies, everything is far to exciting.. then they get over tired and get themselves into trouble.
 
P3LH said:
Solid advice and discussion points already. The only thing I’d add is that I think it’s important to try and step back from the situation and look at things forensically to see if this is a) puppy chaos and stress or b) not going to work in the long term.

We have a 7 month old. He isn’t fully house trained as is an airhead and easily distracted (which drives me bonkers) and has just gone through an asbo phase. He is a fizzy bottle of pop and excitement. Lots of serious impulse control/self control has been in our training lately. He’s generally very chill and laid back, I often forget he is even here, but over exciting things gets very excited. He goes from Neil of the young ones to Louis Spence. This combined with other life things had me at my wits end and I think I said daily to OH ‘he’s going back!’ He hasn’t, and I wouldn’t, because I know it’s just a phase - but it has been really stressful. We are through it now, until the next one in a few months. I had to remind myself it’s a phase, it comes with the territory, the pissing will eventually stop, most things can be resolved with training and the biggest one - that I don’t particularly enjoy the puppy phase - I think people who do are bonkers.

I know he is just a fizzy puppy, who is naturally quite shy and doesn’t naturally read situations/how to respond to situations well, and was over socialised as was a super cute pup who got too much engagement when out and about.

It would be different if I thought/feared it wasn’t going to work in the long run though. Or if I didn’t think we all fitted. As I say, I don’t notice he’s here most the time - most of our discussions are ‘where’s the monkey’, even the mini Mugabe dog loves him. When I was in my late teens and at home we had an English Springer in the pack. My mum purchased him as a romanticised hark back to a childhood dog she had. He taught me a very important philosophy carried into adulthood - you can love a dog as much as is humanly possible, but rather like a relationship, you both have to be a good fit for one and other or it will never truly work.

As I’ve written here before - he wasn’t right for us, and we weren’t right for him. It wasn’t just his energy levels and destructiveness due to not being stimulated enough, but his hunting drive was stronger than any of our terriers. For four years we all lived in chaotic unhappiness, even after our best efforts to make it work. In the end he went to live with horse friends with lots of outdoor space and people with him pretty much all the time. He was a different dog. He made very old bones, we still saw him and he was much happier - as were we. It was clear from early on that it wasn’t going to work - and everyone would have been happier if we’d changed the situation sooner.
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This is the thing as well. As much as we love him so much, I can't see this being compatible with him in particular. He needs more of a job than we can give him and more space. Someone with a lovely big garden or even better on a farm. It would be better for HIM overall and everyone else including the cats.
 
I'm Dun said:
I grew up with gun dogs. Irish setters and then spaniels. Theres a bloody good reason that as an adult I got whippets! Nothing on earth would persuade me to have a spaniel as we wouldn't be a good fit at all. But with the whippets we fit each other almost perfectly, and the bits that arent perfect don't matter a jot because its just part of who they are and it doesn't cause issues as I have adjusted my life to suit them.
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I wanted a whippet! OH didn't.🙈
 
They don't self learn to settle. They are a working breed (2 breeds in your case). Settle is one of the initial things to train and it takes a lot of practice and patience.

I'm honestly astounded OP. Did you give no thought at all to getting a Sprocker?

Every single book about working dogs/springers/cockers writes about the importance of training settle, safe space ie crate, routine, enrichment and training.

2wks later your ready to offload a pup in its 2nd home since breeder when it's had 2wks in a new environment.

Not even 2wks in and already it's an inconvenience for OH to wfh to look after thr pup while it acclimatised. 2wks is nothing.

What did you think it was going to be like with any dog/pup, never mind a sprocker?

Putting up a few baby gates isn't making massive adjustments. You've barely tried and not done what the pup actually needs. You've got problems for every solution.

Just contact spaniel rescue and be done with it.
 
GrassChop said:
This is the thing as well. As much as we love him so much, I can't see this being compatible with him in particular. He needs more of a job than we can give him and more space. Someone with a lovely big garden or even better on a farm. It would be better for HIM overall and everyone else including the cats.
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Spaniels don't need a big garden or house - we have a 2 bed bungalow, a small garden with 3 spaniels and a Labrador. It comes down to training and it is possible.

I think you've made your mind up GC. Try contacting some Spaniel rescues, links have been provided above, really hope he finds a lovely home.
 
@GrassChop sorry l haven’t read all the posts, you may have found room for a crate but you’ll struggle without one. I have had springers for a very long time as well as fostered springers from all sorts of situations. I always get a crate out when a foster is coming, they need a safe place to go and if you were able to find room for one it would make a huge difference. If your puppy has already had several homes it’s going to take time but it’s not impossible. There are a number of breed rescues that might be able to help if you’re really stuck. Some will give advice to help turn dogs round without being rehomed, there’s also a huge difference between the rescues. If you’d like advice please message me.
 
GrassChop said:
This is the thing as well. As much as we love him so much, I can't see this being compatible with him in particular. He needs more of a job than we can give him and more space. Someone with a lovely big garden or even better on a farm. It would be better for HIM overall and everyone else including the cats.
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From your posts it appears that you really are not coping, haven't got the right set up and cannot or will not do that, and definitely not thought it through before getting pup.

Ours was only planned 4 days before we got her at 10.5 weeks but I had everything in place,crates at home, yard and car, playpen at home and work too. I spent as much time training dh as I did the puppy in the 1st few weeks!

Please please contact through the link further above to get him into a foster home asap and stay with cat keeping until you move to a more suitable set up but only then explore a more suitable breed as a house pet if you really do want a dog.
 
Boulty said:
Lots of people have given you general advice re managing the dog & tweaking things in the environment so not going to retread that but some thoughts re the cats and enabling them to feel they can come into the house if they want without having to get any closer to dog than they want to.

If they haven’t lived with dogs before this will be a massive deal to them as they’ll naturally be wary of him, especially if he’s actively trying to approach & is interested in them (& even more so if he’d like to chase them or jump on them)

They really really really need a way in and out of the house that does not involve having to be in the same room as him to enter / exit / access food or beds. This may have to involve opening a window that you’d normally like closed, having a cat flap installed in a random place, giving them access to rooms you normally wouldn’t or if you normally control their access via opening a door then he must always be safely shut away (either in another room or in a crate if you get one) when they come in or out.

Initially they must never be forced to be in the same room as him if they want to access important things like food or sleeping places (ie make sure they have other choices if they want them) & if he’s not got 100% reliable recall/ ability to completely ignore the cats like they aren’t there then he’s going to need to be on lead around them until either this is the case or the cats are less scared of him. This could take months.

They should have high up places they can go in every single room with shared access, either tops of wardrobes etc, cat trees / podiums or shelves fixed to the wall. This will help them feel safer knowing they can get away (providing this for my own cat made a massive difference in his ability to stay in the same room as on lead hooligan spaniel)

I think adding cardboard/ plywood or similar to your existing gates would be a good shout for now. If you can get to the stage where cats can tolerate sharing space without being scared but still need to protect bowls then putting a cat flap on a small cupboard (ie creating a small, secure box) is a solution that works for some people. (Or if raising the gates in a DIY way works you could eventually invest in taller ones)

Unfortunately asking animals that don’t naturally get along to share space can involve quite a lot of hard work, compromise & ingenuity. These things very rarely slot into place straight off the bat. Horrid took about a month to be sort of ok sharing space with an on lead puppy and a further few months to be happy handling him off lead. They still have their moments (mainly due to the hooligan’s chase drive!) but mostly co-exist peacefully. The cat is, of course, in charge!
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So we are in a first floor maisonette, not a bad size but awkwardly laid out. The front door is direct access to an enclosed private garden, the way it's situated is not near any road or carpark, it's tucked away, hard to explain. This means that this is the only access point for the cats. I can't put things high up because of one cat's bad back legs which means she can't jump much higher than a sofa. It's rented so we can't cut holes in cupboard doors, this is a good idea though and something I can think about an alternative for or just get a higher gate with a cat door for the kitchen and living room. Having said that, he'd just stick his head through the cat door in the gate and stop them coming through anyway.

The front door leads up the stairs to the landing where the bathroom, kitchen and lounge is. The landing is a square that only fits a slim shoe cupboard as the rest of the walls are doors. The bedrooms are on the other side. Due to him jumping the gates currently, we have to shut the door to the living room for them to come up and it's so unfair for them only having access to this small area. One was getting braver and jumping over the gate into the living room for attention and we made a bed for her on the top shelf of a corner bookshelf which she uses but she won't go through when he's awake and now can't because he won't stay in the lounge with just the gate so the door has to be shut when we aren't in there! The other started getting braver and jumping over the gate into the lounge in the evening when he was sleeping but runs away when he sees him. I agree a crate would help and may be the last resort. I just can't have my poor cats living like this, it's so cruel.
 
Can we give @GrassChop a bit of a break here do you think? She has admitted all the rookie mistakes and her and OH's inability to cope mainly as they are not experienced and a big error was made choosing what type of dog to get. She came on here for some sort of support, even if it was to give herself permission to rehome the pup. We really don't need to crucify her do we?☹️

@GrassChop I am sorry this thread has developed into the usual experts giving you a hiding, it is not helpful or needed. Please try and arrive at your decision taking on board all the good advise that has been given previously, despite the latest pile on.

If it helps any, I was on the end of a similar highly disapproving and sanctimonious response when I posted on here a couple of years back looking for helpful suggestions how to sort the working lab I mentioned to you in my previous post. It was very hurtful and distressing and I took a step back from this part of the forum as sadly it often goes this way. I ignored all the harsh negative 'experts' but took the good advice from some members and eventually it has all worked out. But it was my choice to keep her, and I had time, facilities and experience plus some new advice to help me. I understand that you most likely do not have that. Whatever you decide, do NOT let a few harsh comments get you down, I wish you the best whatever you decide.
 
MissMay said:
Could you swap out a side table/ bedside locker/ coffee table for a while and put a crate instead with a piece of wood and throw over it?

Also for me the crate Is the dog only so wouldn't be allowing the cat in. My dogs safe space now is their bed and the kids are absolutely blanket ruled not allowed go near them in it. Every one needs a space they can retreat to and not be interacted with
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That was an idea, to move one of the bits of furniture for the crate temporarily but I'm not sure how I'd be able to stop one of the cats wanting to go in there if the door was open.
 
Mrs. Jingle said:
Can we give @GrassChop a bit of a break here do you think? She has admitted all the rookie mistakes and her and OH's inability to cope mainly as they are not experienced and a big error was made choosing what type of dog to get. She came on here for some sort of support, even if it was to give herself permission to rehome the pup. We really don't need to crucify her do we?☹️
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I definitely haven’t meant to come across as giving OP a hiding, apologies if I have GC.

A crate will make SUCH a big difference this is why so many members are advising it. I appreciate you’re doing your best, puppies are hard work and some more than others. Our most recent spaniel as a puppy put me off ever getting another but now she is brilliant.

The cats will adjust to the dog, but for now they might have less space. It’s a difficult one, big changes for everyone.

Really hope it works out for everyone, if you decide to keep the pup or not.
 
Hormonal Filly said:
The cats will adjust to the dog but it takes time (more than 2 weeks) and you need to train the dog to ignore the cat. Several friends have bought dogs/puppies already owning cats and now all of them get on well. Cats need a place to feel safe where the dog can't get and vice versa - which room do your cats feel safe in, do not allow dog into that room.

You're going to struggle without a crate, time and a trainer.
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The cats only had the living room, stairs, landing and kitchen but they're now scared to just come up the stairs to the kitchen even if he's shut in the living room.
 
GrassChop said:
That was an idea, to move one of the bits of furniture for the crate temporarily but I'm not sure how I'd be able to stop one of the cats wanting to go in there if the door was open.
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The cats are unlikely to want to go into a crate, ime. Have you ever tried persuading a cat into a basket to go to the vet? The crate will smell of the pup, who you say the cats are wary of.
 
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