Pearlsasinger
Up in the clouds
Apologies, You said that he follows you into the house without finishing his toileting. So I assumed you had left him in the garden I'm not sure what you actually meant.
Spaniel Puppy Advice/Vent
- Thread starter GrassChop
- Start date
GrassChop
Well-Known Member
My OH actually made a cat house several month's a go for the outside cat and they are using it!
GrassChop
Well-Known Member
Thank you so much Mrs J. A little bit of backlash is usually expected I guess, nature of forums, some with good intentions and some not. Sorry you had to go through that too.Can we give @GrassChop a bit of a break here do you think? She has admitted all the rookie mistakes and her and OH's inability to cope mainly as they are not experienced and a big error was made choosing what type of dog to get. She came on here for some sort of support, even if it was to give herself permission to rehome the pup. We really don't need to crucify her do we?
@GrassChop I am sorry this thread has developed into the usual experts giving you a hiding, it is not helpful or needed. Please try and arrive at your decision taking on board all the good advise that has been given previously, despite the latest pile on.
If it helps any, I was on the end of a similar highly disapproving and sanctimonious response when I posted on here a couple of years back looking for helpful suggestions how to sort the working lab I mentioned to you in my previous post. It was very hurtful and distressing and I took a step back from this part of the forum as sadly it often goes this way. I ignored all the harsh negative 'experts' but took the good advice from some members and eventually it has all worked out. But it was my choice to keep her, and I had time, facilities and experience plus some new advice to help me. I understand that you most likely do not have that. Whatever you decide, do NOT let a few harsh comments get you down, I wish you the best whatever you decide.
It's honestly a horrible situation to be in that none of us expected. Perhaps it is puppy blues and thinking "oh god, what have we done". We have both been off work for his first 1.5 weeks with us. My OH is a builder and he can't have him on site if he's kicking off in the van, it's not a job where he can just work from home.
We are currently discussing our last resort, get the crate, remove one unit and replace with some sort of console table with drawers to put crate under and get higher gates with cat doors.
We aren't experienced in spaniel puppies, yes we are stupid and now have to make an awful decision that effects all of us if we can't make it work. The colder and rainy months are creeping in and I can't have the cats living outside like that. We can only do our best. X
GrassChop
Well-Known Member
Thank you. I don't think you came across in any way.
Archangel
Normal, 10 cats ago
As a mad solution to the cats waiting outside - I bought an old Wendy House (a Little Tikes one) for a feral cat that had just had kittens.
A pallet/crate in the bottom, some polystyrene packing as an insulation layer, then an old dog bed and a couple of boxes.
If you can back it against a wall and put some clear plastic on the windows it makes a lovely snuggy place to hang out in.
A pallet/crate in the bottom, some polystyrene packing as an insulation layer, then an old dog bed and a couple of boxes.
If you can back it against a wall and put some clear plastic on the windows it makes a lovely snuggy place to hang out in.
GrassChop
Well-Known Member
Sorry if I explained it badly. When he's toileting and you're stood at the door for example where he can see you but you take one step away to grab something where he can still see you, he won't finish going and will panic run to you because you moved slightly. I appreciate he worries that we are going to disappear so we'll make sure to stay still.
GrassChop
Well-Known Member
Please could I have some advice for crate training? How long for? What to put in there for him? Thank you.
splashgirl45
Lurcher lover
Puppies are really hard work , my lurcher pup was very needy and followed me everywhere . I am retired and still struggled sometimes. My bathroom is downstairs and I couldn’t go to the loo without company and if I tried to have a shower he wanted to come in with me. I had to crate him until he was about 10 months so I could shower in peace, so you are not alone. I think you’ve had plenty of good advice but my suggestion would be to contact a springer rescue and see what they say or maybe get them to rehome him if you feel you are not able to cope because of the cats . Good luck
TPO
Fly paper for freaks 🍀
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This was a first time owner with a sprocker. She now has a springer pup a similar age to yours.
She was also a first time owner; although no cats [or horses or kids]. She dedicated a LOT of time to her sprocker (she's really keen on gun dog stuff and training with competing and fieldwork in mind).
Her sprocker had/has terrible separation anxiety so she's still working through that.
She has made a lot of changes as to how she manages and trains her new pup; lessons learnt from first one and general experience and knowledge has increased.
She has lots of "highlights" saved detailing most of the issues and day to day stuff as well as training.
Highly recommend some time watching all of them and scrolling through her page as a starter for ten.
She gives lots of enrichment ideas too. Her new pup is food orientated too.
JBM
Well-Known Member
Start with feeding him in there with the door open
And if he falls asleep move him to his crate to nap
Chew toys and everything fun in the crate
Then while he’s sleeping you can close the door (stay in the room) then open it when he wakes up
Then can start leaving the room for short spells of time and build it up
Crate isn’t a punishment for bad behaviour. It’s a fun chill place to sleep
skinnydipper
Well-Known Member
I think anybody, no matter who they and how many dogs they've had previously, should look at the needs of the dog that they are hoping will join their family. And be realistic.
Can they fulfil the dogs needs and if not look for a dog that would be better suited to what they can offer a dog.
Can they fulfil the dogs needs and if not look for a dog that would be better suited to what they can offer a dog.
GrassChop
Well-Known Member
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This was a first time owner with a sprocker. She now has a springer pup a similar age to yours.
She was also a first time owner; although no cats [or horses or kids]. She dedicated a LOT of time to her sprocker (she's really keen on gun dog stuff and training with competing and fieldwork in mind).
Her sprocker had/has terrible separation anxiety so she's still working through that.
She has made a lot of changes as to how she manages and trains her new pup; lessons learnt from first one and general experience and knowledge has increased.
She has lots of "highlights" saved detailing most of the issues and day to day stuff as well as training.
Highly recommend some time watching all of them and scrolling through her page as a starter for ten.
She gives lots of enrichment ideas too. Her new pup is food orientated too.
GrassChop
Well-Known Member
Thank you!
Spotherisk
Well-Known Member
One mind dogs (who I use for agility training) are doing a free trial for puppy training - I can see that includes crate training. https://www.oneminddogs.com/online-puppy-training/
Spotherisk
Well-Known Member
If you have a surface they will adhere to then lick mats can be good. You can have a couple and always keep one ready to go in the freezer. I use yogurt and peanut butter, it’s all a bit too much effort for Rew though.
Pearlsasinger
Up in the clouds
At this stage especially with his chequered history you will need to go out there with him, even in the rain unfortunately, and wait near him until he has finished. He doesn't really know anything , so you have to train him.
GrassChop
Well-Known Member
I don't mind having to be in the rain for him, he hates it and water of any kind. He throws a proper tantrum when he gets wet.
Hopefully he will get used to it.
JBM
Well-Known Member
My Doberman does thisI don't mind having to be in the rain for him, he hates it and water of any kind. He throws a proper tantrum when he gets wet.
I have to put her on a lead and walk her to the middle of the. Garden if it’s wet
She is almost 2 years old
Pearlsasinger
Up in the clouds
Our Labs are a bit like that although they adore swimming! I blame the Rottweiler that we had when they were pups, she thought that dogs dissolve if they get wetI don't mind having to be in the rain for him, he hates it and water of any kind. He throws a proper tantrum when he gets wet.
GrassChop
Well-Known Member
He'll do proper bum tucked in zoomies when he's wet and then barks, whines and tries taking it out on us! He will avoid walking through any slight mud or water, god forbid his paws get wet!My Doberman does this
I have to put her on a lead and walk her to the middle of the. Garden if it’s wet
She is almost 2 years old
Bellaboo18
Well-Known Member
I'm late to this and haven't read all the replies but wanted to say this pups pro list is incredible for a pup you've had for 2 weeks and on his 3rd home 
Mrs Jingle
Well-Known Member
My Doberman does this
I have to put her on a lead and walk her to the middle of the. Garden if it’s wet
She is almost 2 years old
Yep same here for one of my labs. Swims like a fish but rain? Oh dear me NO.
Bellaboo18
Well-Known Member
Our cat was terrified when we brought home our puppy...just reminiscing with my husband and I think it took a good month for him to decide he wasn't going to get pushed out! They're now the best of friends and very sweet together.
meggymoo
Well-Known Member
I think most of us at some point during our first couple of weeks of owning our puppy have wondered what on Earth we must have been thinking of. It’s hard work! We did crate train ours from day one and that was a godsend. Start by feeding them in there so it’s nice associations. Also I think iirc you said he got fed up when he couldn’t get treats out of a Kong. Look at their full range, they have a rubber bone that just has a hole in each flat end so treats weren’t out of reach for a little one. I doubt very many of us live in houses
big enough to have space for a crate, we certainly didn’t and had to move things temporarily to fit it in, which was a pain but I do think you’d find it a game changer. As an aside, it was also a boon to have a crate trained dog when our lab had cruciate surgery resulting in 8 weeks crate rest. He took it completely in his stride.
Stop beating yourself up though because 2 weeks is nothing for a new pup to settle, not want you out of sight, the cats to settle etc etc. A really good trainer would be a good idea too. If you can afford it (even for a short time) one to one is invaluable. Get word of mouth recommendations. In a few months you may even look back and laugh - or not
.
But if you do decide it’s not for you, just please please be very careful about where you rehome.
big enough to have space for a crate, we certainly didn’t and had to move things temporarily to fit it in, which was a pain but I do think you’d find it a game changer. As an aside, it was also a boon to have a crate trained dog when our lab had cruciate surgery resulting in 8 weeks crate rest. He took it completely in his stride.
Stop beating yourself up though because 2 weeks is nothing for a new pup to settle, not want you out of sight, the cats to settle etc etc. A really good trainer would be a good idea too. If you can afford it (even for a short time) one to one is invaluable. Get word of mouth recommendations. In a few months you may even look back and laugh - or not
.But if you do decide it’s not for you, just please please be very careful about where you rehome.
splashgirl45
Lurcher lover
I used to have to put a coat on my previous lurcher as she wouldn’t go out in the rain and I used to put my coat on and stand out there with her till she had been, this carried on till her later years as well 
ArklePig
Well-Known Member
I once posted a thread asking for advice because my dog was becoming unsettled at bedtime. I mentioned how I eased it by sitting with her until she relaxed etc and asked for ideas on how to make her more settled/what could be causing it.
I got a HEAP of messages condemning me for leaving her alone when she was upset, and people saying she never actually was comfortable in bed and I had forced her into learned helplessness. Basically just people wilfully misinterpreting what I'd said and inventing their own back story. I still post about her but I don't ask for serious dog advice here anymore.
Just a rant really but just to reassure you you're not alone.
gunnergundog
Well-Known Member
Use a golfing umbrella to keep you both dry when raining until he matures and gets the hang of things.I don't mind having to be in the rain for him, he hates it and water of any kind. He throws a proper tantrum when he gets wet.
Clodagh
Playing chess with pigeons
L
i remember your post, but can’t remember what I said and hope I didn’t pile on. I remember telling you you were nuts getting her though
SaddlePsych'D
Well-Known Member
I am wondering OP what your expectations were for what it would be like at two weeks in with a four month old puppy?
My sense is that unless you are willing/able to reflect on and adjust these expectations, you are unlikely to make the changes needed to make this work. And that is fine, but then it will come down to responsible rehoming via a reputable breed rescue.
Perhaps you need a 'gaah this is too much!' moment before cracking on with what needs to be done. You are not alone in that. You will also not be the first person to put their hands up and say 'it's not working' if that's where things really are.
My sense is that unless you are willing/able to reflect on and adjust these expectations, you are unlikely to make the changes needed to make this work. And that is fine, but then it will come down to responsible rehoming via a reputable breed rescue.
Perhaps you need a 'gaah this is too much!' moment before cracking on with what needs to be done. You are not alone in that. You will also not be the first person to put their hands up and say 'it's not working' if that's where things really are.
FionaMc
Well-Known Member
This is a long reply that goes a bit all over the place. Short version is all of your bad points to me are… yeah, he’s a spaniel puppy. That’s how they are. And the good points are why they are fab dogs.
With positive training, consistency and the right breed-specific outlets (gundog and scent/search work normally) after about 2 years, spaniels can be an absolute dream for people who like a high energy/drive dog. The prevalence of spaniels under 18 months in rescue shows how challenging they can be, and how misunderstood they are. Puppyhood and adolescence with them can be really demanding and frustrating!
(Working) Cockers especially, are clingy, needy, balls of drivey energy that want to be involved in absolutely everything and hate being left out. Extreme enthusiasm and busyness are who they are. Springers tend to be a little easier in the house and a little less opinionated in my experience but even more willing to spend their outside time bashing through cover and relentlessly running. Sprockers could be more like either or a mix.
I always say my favourite things about my cocker are also his worse traits. They make him a brilliant missing person search dog - but also mean I’m constantly needing to think of new ways to stay one step ahead of him and that a LOT of our time in the last 4 years has been spent on promoting calm and restraint. He’s my first dog (after 30 years of wanting one) and I was *very* prepared. But the reality was still really hard some days when he was a puppy or teenager.
Lots of great chat in this thread but one thing I would add - start him on scentwork and searching. It’s more tiring than almost anything else you can do with them, you get to work together on something he will love, and it’s also a great confidence and independence builder.
High food drive is a great trait for training. Use it. And get creative about management. Karen Overall’s Relaxtion Protocol is worth looking at - but greater indifference to the cats would be more simply counter conditioning and rewarding calm.
Baby gates, crates and house lines will help with management and learning to settle in the house.
And at 4 months - routine, and trying to enforce lots and lots of rest and sleep are what is most needed. They should be sleeping about 18-20 hours a day still, broken up with toilet breaks, a little play, a little training, a little walk. Tired puppies are the worst puppies.
And toilet training is still a work in progress, you go out with them every single time and throw a party when they go.
I live in a small terrace in London with two dogs and a cat. The dogs live in the living/dining room, the cat has the kitchen and bathroom protected by a tall gate, and then I escort her or carry her to go upstairs through the living room (the door is always shut). She can use windows to go outside between the two avoiding the dogs. Of course the dream was them all snuggling on the sofa, but the cat and the cocker never quite got there, and the younger dachshund means this is in no way realistic in future… where the cocker is curious and full on, the dachshund would absolutely act on her hunt instincts.
Also fwiw mine will recall from people, dogs, chasing wildlife… I still wouldn’t trust him near picnics. He can smell a sausage roll from 100m and will go for it. That’s what having awareness on walks and popping a lead on for a bit are for
And expectations - even the best trained dogs are imperfect. With high drive breeds it can be a constant line walking between harnessing and managing and letting them express it in safe ways.
With positive training, consistency and the right breed-specific outlets (gundog and scent/search work normally) after about 2 years, spaniels can be an absolute dream for people who like a high energy/drive dog. The prevalence of spaniels under 18 months in rescue shows how challenging they can be, and how misunderstood they are. Puppyhood and adolescence with them can be really demanding and frustrating!
(Working) Cockers especially, are clingy, needy, balls of drivey energy that want to be involved in absolutely everything and hate being left out. Extreme enthusiasm and busyness are who they are. Springers tend to be a little easier in the house and a little less opinionated in my experience but even more willing to spend their outside time bashing through cover and relentlessly running. Sprockers could be more like either or a mix.
I always say my favourite things about my cocker are also his worse traits. They make him a brilliant missing person search dog - but also mean I’m constantly needing to think of new ways to stay one step ahead of him and that a LOT of our time in the last 4 years has been spent on promoting calm and restraint. He’s my first dog (after 30 years of wanting one) and I was *very* prepared. But the reality was still really hard some days when he was a puppy or teenager.
Lots of great chat in this thread but one thing I would add - start him on scentwork and searching. It’s more tiring than almost anything else you can do with them, you get to work together on something he will love, and it’s also a great confidence and independence builder.
High food drive is a great trait for training. Use it. And get creative about management. Karen Overall’s Relaxtion Protocol is worth looking at - but greater indifference to the cats would be more simply counter conditioning and rewarding calm.
Baby gates, crates and house lines will help with management and learning to settle in the house.
And at 4 months - routine, and trying to enforce lots and lots of rest and sleep are what is most needed. They should be sleeping about 18-20 hours a day still, broken up with toilet breaks, a little play, a little training, a little walk. Tired puppies are the worst puppies.
And toilet training is still a work in progress, you go out with them every single time and throw a party when they go.
I live in a small terrace in London with two dogs and a cat. The dogs live in the living/dining room, the cat has the kitchen and bathroom protected by a tall gate, and then I escort her or carry her to go upstairs through the living room (the door is always shut). She can use windows to go outside between the two avoiding the dogs. Of course the dream was them all snuggling on the sofa, but the cat and the cocker never quite got there, and the younger dachshund means this is in no way realistic in future… where the cocker is curious and full on, the dachshund would absolutely act on her hunt instincts.
Also fwiw mine will recall from people, dogs, chasing wildlife… I still wouldn’t trust him near picnics. He can smell a sausage roll from 100m and will go for it. That’s what having awareness on walks and popping a lead on for a bit are for
And expectations - even the best trained dogs are imperfect. With high drive breeds it can be a constant line walking between harnessing and managing and letting them express it in safe ways.