Struggling with hacking

emiliaa

Well-Known Member
Joined
29 December 2017
Messages
109
Visit site
1) Do you need/want to hack, alone/in groups.
2) I'd put someone else experienced with this sort of behaviour on him
3) depending on the result of 2 I would possibly get some experienced to long rein him out and see how that went.
4) I'd ask said person to teach me the tools of how to deal with it (/his likely anxiety).
I am struggling with both riding alone and in groups. Thanks for your advice X
 

indie1282

Well-Known Member
Joined
5 February 2012
Messages
998
Visit site
Just wanted to say - this forum is fantastic for help and advice but i really do not see why people want be so unpleasant! If you offer advice ( which doesn't always mean it the right advice! ) and that person doesn't take it then leave the thread or stop commenting.

Also emiliaa, i think your horse looks really genuine and honest and from your description sounds a lovely kind boy. I 'suspect' hes quite experienced and is probably taking the mick however, things like this can escalate quickly and i would definitely get a pro or your instructor to hack him and see what they think. I would also recheck the saddle fit and change to a double jointed bit just to see if hes happier.

One if my horses started head tossing in the school when i bought him back in to work and initially i thought it was him getting tired but when he started napping and threatening to rear on a hack I instantly knew something was off. I checked his saddle fit and had to put him in a wider gullet- problem instantly solved 🙂

One thing I would suggest - if your instructor or someone experienced can show you how to long line I would try that out hacking - you can *hopefully* then eliminate saddle/rider issues. Always where a hat and gloves and practice in the school before venturing out.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TPO

emiliaa

Well-Known Member
Joined
29 December 2017
Messages
109
Visit site
Just wanted to say - this forum is fantastic for help and advice but i really do not see why people want be so unpleasant! If you offer advice ( which doesn't always mean it the right advice! ) and that person doesn't take it then leave the thread or stop commenting.

Also emiliaa, i think your horse looks really genuine and honest and from your description sounds a lovely kind boy. I 'suspect' hes quite experienced and is probably taking the mick however, things like this can escalate quickly and i would definitely get a pro or your instructor to hack him and see what they think. I would also recheck the saddle fit and change to a double jointed bit just to see if hes happier.

One if my horses started head tossing in the school when i bought him back in to work and initially i thought it was him getting tired but when he started napping and threatening to rear on a hack I instantly knew something was off. I checked his saddle fit and had to put him in a wider gullet- problem instantly solved 🙂

One thing I would suggest - if your instructor or someone experienced can show you how to long line I would try that out hacking - you can *hopefully* then eliminate saddle/rider issues. Always where a hat and gloves and practice in the school before venturing out.
Thank you so much for your advice Indie X Yes he is a lovely boy
 

emiliaa

Well-Known Member
Joined
29 December 2017
Messages
109
Visit site
but do you need to do either of those things? you say above hacking is for the horse not for you, for some horses it's not their idea of fun either.
No, I have always been told that it is good to hack them as it’s a different environment for them. So do you think I should just not hack as a whole because I wouldn’t mind that at all tbh X
 

bonny

Well-Known Member
Joined
17 September 2007
Messages
6,487
Visit site
You don’t need to hack and if neither you or your horse enjoy it then it doesn’t sound like it’s worth the hassle that it’s causing. The roads can be dangerous enough without going on them with a horse who isn’t listening to you. Have you tried boxing somewhere else where you try riding out without going on the roads ?
 

emiliaa

Well-Known Member
Joined
29 December 2017
Messages
109
Visit site
You don’t need to hack and if neither you or your horse enjoy it then it doesn’t sound like it’s worth the hassle that it’s causing. The roads can be dangerous enough without going on them with a horse who isn’t listening to you. Have you tried boxing somewhere else where you try riding out without going on the roads ?
No, we haven’t but my mum is taking me to xc training soon so I am not sure if that counts X Thanks for the help
 
  • Like
Reactions: TPO

ester

Not slacking multitasking
Joined
31 December 2008
Messages
60,198
Location
Cambridge
Visit site
Well if you don't enjoy it, the horse appears not to enjoy it, it doesn't have direct implications for doing the things you do both enjoy and likely your anxieties are feeding off each other and potentially making each other worse I think not doing has to be on the list of possible ways forwards, especially if you don't have plans to sell.
 

emiliaa

Well-Known Member
Joined
29 December 2017
Messages
109
Visit site
Well if you don't enjoy it, the horse appears not to enjoy it, it doesn't have direct implications for doing the things you do both enjoy and likely your anxieties are feeding off each other and potentially making each other worse I think not doing has to be on the list of possible ways forwards, especially if you don't have plans to sell.
Thanks ester X
 

Apercrumbie

Well-Known Member
Joined
3 November 2008
Messages
5,178
Location
South-West
Visit site
Lovely horse! A couple of comments in addition to what has already been said.

To reiterate, stop attempting to hack out by yourself for now, you are only going to reinforce his bad behaviour because it is clear that you cannot handle it (not a criticism, I think we've all been there!). I would ask your instructor to hack him in company a few times, then attempt a trip alone to see if he/she can break the cycle.

A comment on the video (while realising you will have improved since): great for a first outing but you don't actually have much control of him - if he decided he wanted to bog off, duck out the side you wouldn't be able to do much about it. In your schooling lessons, you need to be working on getting him truly off the leg and much, much more supple in his front end - can you see how stiff his neck/shoulders are in the video? He can use that against you and you are only realising you don't have much control when he naps, but it's all there the rest of the time too. Getting a horse truly "through" can be hard work and IME, it takes a while for riders to understand how to truly control the shoulders and base of neck, but I think this is what you should be working on.

ETA this will all link through to his ribcage too - suppleness is key to having good control of your horse (and a good way of going of course!)

Again, not meant as a criticism because it's just symptomatic of the stage of learning that you are at. I remember this phase very, very well!

Reading back through that I'm not sure how clear it is. Can someone more eloquent than me translate? XD
 
Last edited:

joosie

Well-Known Member
Joined
24 June 2009
Messages
1,105
Location
New Zealand
Visit site
You don't HAVE to hack, that is very true. I know plenty of people who don't, and, working in the competition horse world, plenty of horses who don't, too. And they don't suffer for it.
But you said that all he did in his previous home was hacking, so you know he can do it and it's not new to him. That means it's most likely something you can work through. Whether you want to or not is up to you!
 

emiliaa

Well-Known Member
Joined
29 December 2017
Messages
109
Visit site
Lovely horse! A couple of comments in addition to what has already been said.

To reiterate, stop attempting to hack out by yourself for now, you are only going to reinforce his bad behaviour because it is clear that you cannot handle it (not a criticism, I think we've all been there!). I would ask your instructor to hack him in company a few times, then attempt a trip alone to see if he/she can break the cycle.

A comment on the video (while realising you will have improved since): great for a first outing but you don't actually have much control of him - if he decided he wanted to bog off, duck out the side you wouldn't be able to do much about it. In your schooling lessons, you need to be working on getting him truly off the leg and much, much more supple in his front end - can you see how stiff his neck/shoulders are in the video? He can use that against you and you are only realising you don't have much control when he naps, but it's all there the rest of the time too. Getting a horse truly "through" can be hard work and IME, it takes a while for riders to understand how to truly control the shoulders and base of neck, but I think this is what you should be working on.

ETA this will all link through to his ribcage too - suppleness is key to having good control of your horse (and a good way of going of course!)

Again, not meant as a criticism because it's just symptomatic of the stage of learning that you are at. I remember this phase very, very well!

Reading back through that I'm not sure how clear it is. Can someone more eloquent than me translate? XD
Thanks X
 

emiliaa

Well-Known Member
Joined
29 December 2017
Messages
109
Visit site
You don't HAVE to hack, that is very true. I know plenty of people who don't, and, working in the competition horse world, plenty of horses who don't, too. And they don't suffer for it.
But you said that all he did in his previous home was hacking, so you know he can do it and it's not new to him. That means it's most likely something you can work through. Whether you want to or not is up to you!
Thanks joosie X
 

Pearlsasinger

Up in the clouds
Joined
20 February 2009
Messages
44,730
Location
W. Yorks
Visit site
Sorry only just seen this as I said if I wanted a happy hacker then this would be an issue but luckily hacking isn’t really my thing anyway. I hate going on the roads the cars scare me the only reason I do it is because it’s more interesting for the horse but if it doesn’t work out then it doesn’t work out X


This is very possibly the root of the horse's problems with hacking in his new home.
 

RHM

Well-Known Member
Joined
29 January 2019
Messages
775
Visit site
Lovely horse! Firstly I know it is the most frustrating thing in the world when you have a nappy horse. I wanted to send mine for sausages on numerous occasions 🙈 what worked for me was:
1. Loads of long reining out and about, starting around the yard and ménage until I felt more confident with it
2. I know it has been mentioned a lot to get your instructor to see if she can sort him out but that doesn’t guarantee he won’t revert back to his behaviour when you get back on board. What my instructor did with me was box over her own horse and came hacking with us. That gave me more confidence to push him through issues and had professional advice on hand.
3. My horse hates a snaffle, didn’t actually realise until my YO lent me her massive bit collection to see if something else would suit. He much prefers a double joint.
Mine is now literally bombproof out hacking, I stick novices on him all the time. All this being said mine only ever reared the once and wasn’t as powerful as yours. Now that I’m older and less bouncy I think I would be tempted just to sack off hacking all together 😂 Good luck with it!
 

ozpoz

Well-Known Member
Joined
31 August 2010
Messages
2,662
Visit site
I think the advice to have your saddle checked is very sensible. it should be fitted to both horse and rider, and checked as often as your horse changes shape, which will vary from horse to horse. Remember that your saddle fitter should watch the horse being ridden in the saddle, before and after fitting too.
I noticed you said that your fitter said the fit wasn't bad for your horse. I'd be much happier if the fitter said she/he was confident there was a good fit for your horse and you.
Anyway, he looks a super sort - and it is good that you are checking all angles.
 

exracehorse

Well-Known Member
Joined
24 December 2011
Messages
1,751
Visit site
Thank you! Yes I think he is a lot better in company although he does still do it when he is. X
My warmblood is a twat to hack solo. Nearly came off him twice. In the end, I bought a hacking buddy for him. A bomb proof unflappable chap who goes out with him. He’s soo much better in company. I have a sharer for the hacking buddy. And when I fancy a solo ride alone, drag the trotter out of the field.
 

Hack4fun

Well-Known Member
Joined
29 April 2017
Messages
486
Visit site
Have you tried going on shorter hacks - turning before the point when the stropiness sets in? You could always repeat the hack to do two back to back. At the moment it sounds like he has learned that if he behaves this way then he gets to go home. Show him that he will go home without behaving this way.
 

9tails

Well-Known Member
Joined
20 January 2009
Messages
4,763
Visit site
If you bridge your reins, when your horse goes to snatch at grass he will be unable to pull them through your hands. You could also attach an RS-tor so that you feel more secure when he throws in his acrobatics. These suggestions are for after your instructor has had a go and I would always suggest circular hacks. If you feel you should get off, do so and continue walking inhand on the hack. Don't take him straight back to the yard. If he's a handful inhand, put a rope halter under his bridle for leading if necessary.
 

Ellietotz

Well-Known Member
Joined
26 June 2014
Messages
2,274
Visit site
Hi Emiliaa, sorry to hear you're having troubles. I had a look at your Youtube videos and you're riding well for only having 3 years experience. I am not going to advise on selling him, I also had a lot of that advice when I first posted about my mare. I admit, I was over-horsed but I wanted to learn and grow myself (I'm stubborn). I loved her and sometimes the only way of learning is to jump in the deep end. Your safety is of the utmost importance as well and I can see you are taking all precautions necessary which is good.
I can tell your horse is intelligent and he knows his job, learning how to get him on the bit and working properly is all something that will come in time with your lessons. In your most recent dressage video, I can see the reins are loose and although he is listening to you, he is not working quite how he should be. I'm not here to criticize your riding though and learning how to get them working properly isn't easy so I wouldn't expect it after that short time but this may all help when going hacking when you are both communicating in the same way so definitely something to focus on. I hope that makes sense? Another thing you can do, with getting lessons with him at home, it'll give you both some time away from riding out and further your bond without having the fight. Try bonding exercises in hand, make him learn to respect you and to understand that he needs to listen to you. Try bombproofing exercises too so that if the hacking is an anxiety issue, this will help him trust you more.
Out hacking, snatching his head down to eat may just be an escape mechanism. When you do try again, I would try riding him exactly how you do in the school and keep your leg on, gently and constantly pushing him on. Keep him occupied, weave him around things, make him stand and walk on. It may be that he needs to keep his mind focused. Could you try giving him a handful of chaff before you go out to stop acid splashing? What are his poos like (odd question but there is a reason for it)? Could he possibly have ulcers? Would getting him scoped be an option? Look up the gastric ulcer symptoms and see if anything sounds similar.
My mare had ulcers and she did the exact same when she got into a situation she was not comfortable with. She is perfect to hack alone but when the ulcers flared up and we came across something that scared her, normally you could push her through it but she would rear, buck and spin when she had stomach ulcers. However, on a side note, with or without ulcers, she hates schooling, she will do it but she will have a strop every now and then. I'd have had no hope schooling her with the ulcers though and it could just be that yours simply doesn't enjoy hacking like others have said.
In conclusion, this could mean many things from being a pain response to just taking the mick. I agree with getting someone braver in those situations to ride him, however, they must be experienced too because if mine started having a strop and the rider started fighting with her, she would just get worse, some need different approaches and every horse is different. Where abouts are you? Maybe someone on here is local and could come and help? It's just a matter of ruling things out. Maybe try a different type of bit, I wouldn't say stronger or lighter as bits can be as strong as the hands that are using them but my mare hates anything linked and has the nutcracker action. She's better in a kimblewick with a port and the chain does the job I need for control. Maybe try a happy mouth snaffle or a straight bar etc as he may just not like the action of the snaffle. That would be one thing to rule out, his teeth have been ruled out as well as saddle.
You also said he was stiff for the chiro, where was he stiff? You need to find out why he was stiff too. It's a minefield but you'll figure out what the cause is eventually and it's hard for outsiders to understand why he is doing this without the entire picture but hopefully giving you ideas of what it could be for you to rule things out will help narrow it down a bit.
Sorry for my long reply!
Good luck!
 

Hallo2012

Well-Known Member
Joined
29 June 2016
Messages
1,584
Visit site
i had a very talented but quirky ex racer who competed to a high level in dressage but was a nightmare to hack so i didnt! for several years until he matured a bit...........just did lots of pole work, and rode him in his own field once a week for variety :)

they dont all need to.
 

Ellzbellz97

Well-Known Member
Joined
26 April 2018
Messages
138
Location
Gloucestershire
Visit site
Emiliaa, I have the same issue as you, my horse is amazing in every other way, however to hack he is a nappy little git. We get out eventually but he digs his heels in and tries to spin, he's a lot better in company though if anything he's lazy in company! I feel you... it's not nice being napped with!
 

Ellzbellz97

Well-Known Member
Joined
26 April 2018
Messages
138
Location
Gloucestershire
Visit site
My warmblood is a twat to hack solo. Nearly came off him twice. In the end, I bought a hacking buddy for him. A bomb proof unflappable chap who goes out with him. He’s soo much better in company. I have a sharer for the hacking buddy. And when I fancy a solo ride alone, drag the trotter out of the field.

Lol same... mine's a warmblood and is a twat to hack alone!
 

eggs

Well-Known Member
Joined
3 February 2009
Messages
5,245
Visit site
I have a now 18 year old Dutch wb that I have owned since a foal. In his earlier years he was good to hack either alone or in company but over time became trickier to hack and would set off fly leaping out of nowhere. About 8 years ago I decided to stop hacking him as neither of us were enjoying it and I certainly didn't want to have an accident.

Yes I know that hacking is meant to be good for them and a bit of down time but it doesn't suit all horses and mine is certainly happier not hacking. If you really do want to hack I suggest you try some-one like Michael Peace or Richard Maxwell if your instructor doesn't want to try to ride him through it.
 

LaurenBay

Well-Known Member
Joined
15 November 2010
Messages
5,883
Location
Essex
Visit site
Op he looks like a very smart and honest Horse. Fab to hear you've done well at shows in the 3 years you have had him. He is just my type.

I echo what the others have said really. You need to find out if it is him taking the mick or if its due to discomfort/pain.

I would ask a pro to get on board and walk with them on foot, get their opinion and then put a plan in place. If they manage to work him through it then I'd pay them at least once a week to hack him out and then once they feel is appropriate, you would ride and they would walk on foot with you.

If they cannot work the Horse through it, then I would look at bits, and possible discomfort in other areas.
 

emiliaa

Well-Known Member
Joined
29 December 2017
Messages
109
Visit site
Hi this is random but was thinking about this thread last night and thought I should post an update. Since all this we have moved yards (December) new yard has way more turnout and I am now hacking on a regular basis, galloping in open fields , XC etc... So it seems that (lack of) turnout was the issue here thank you so much everyone (if you still use this lol)
 

emiliaa

Well-Known Member
Joined
29 December 2017
Messages
109
Visit site
Looking back at this most of these comments are really lovely. For some reason my memory of this post is mainly receiving horrible comments but that really isn't the case so if anyone who sent useful advice/kind comments before I want to thank you again I really appreciate these ?
 

emiliaa

Well-Known Member
Joined
29 December 2017
Messages
109
Visit site
Um..... when you posted the You-Tube footage, and asked for advice on here, I thought it was because you were actually actively SEEKING advice??? That was the impression I (and no doubt others) gained?? Yes??

You've been riding for 3 years, and yep OK fair enough, you know it all, plus some!! The advice that I and others on here who've spent a lifetime working with horses, is of no account; and that advice was well-intended, and basically out of concern for your safety. But you don't need advice. Obviously.

So I'm outta this. Frankly I can't be arsed to give advice to someone who obviously doesn't need it.
Please don't ever say something like that again...it's hurtful. I hope you're doing well ?
 
  • Like
Reactions: RML
Top