T/O after 5 months - for those who don't T/O in the winter

[ester]

I'm not working off what YOs have tried to flog me?! I'm working off people I know at various yards telling me what they have

One good friend has good grazing, indoor and outdoor schools, all mod cons, long farm ride with gallop hill etc etc and I do wonder why I decided not to go to that one especially when there is driving rain/I am walking down the road to our extra grazing.
Then I got to meet her for event grooms duties and remember that the yard is busy (about 50 boxes)- enough to wire a welshie and all turnout is individual.

 

[FfionWinnie]

You have chosen as is usual for you I've noticed, to do the weeping wailing poor bullied me response, rather than take a step back and think perhaps the people on this thread know far more than you (or I) about horses and soundness. AA told you about a horse she bought and how she had to return it to a far more natural life to ensure long term soundness. AA clearly knows a lot more about horses than most people on this forum.

At no time have I said I know it all and at no time have I belittled or mocked or done anything else you've accused me of.

I have 6 equines living out 24/7 often in horrible mud in the winter and rarely worked in a school. It would seem clear to me, the fact that my horses are all sound, do not often run about and when they do, do not injure themselves and never have any field injuries, are never fat, do not have mud fever or many of the other maladies people seem to struggle with could point to the fact that living out with adlib hay and lots of hacking is a really healthy way to keep a horse.

You can argue til you are blue in the face about this and that won't change the fact that this theory of mine and many others, is scientifically proven.

As for your weight, I have absolutely no idea what you weigh and as someone who has struggled with my weight my entire adult life I can assure you that your claim I am being nasty to you about it is ludicrous. I've lost 5 stones to be able to ride the horses I want to ride and so they can carry me easily. It wasn't easy, it's still not easy but ultimately if that is what it takes that is what I will do.

 

[applecart14]

You have chosen as is usual for you I've noticed, to do the weeping wailing poor bullied me response, rather than take a step back and think perhaps the people on this thread know far more than you (or I) about horses and soundness. AA told you about a horse she bought and how she had to return it to a far more natural life to ensure long term soundness. AA clearly knows a lot more about horses than most people on this forum.

At no time have I said I know it all and at no time have I belittled or mocked or done anything else you've accused me of.

I have 6 equines living out 24/7 often in horrible mud in the winter and rarely worked in a school. It would seem clear to me, the fact that my horses are all sound, do not often run about and when they do, do not injure themselves and never have any field injuries, are never fat, do not have mud fever or many of the other maladies people seem to struggle with could point to the fact that living out with adlib hay and lots of hacking is a really healthy way to keep a horse.

You can argue til you are blue in the face about this and that won't change the fact that this theory of mine and many others, is a scientifically proven.

As for your weight, I have absolutely no idea what you weigh and as someone who has struggled with my weight my entire adult life I can assure you that your claim I am being nasty to you about it is ludicrous. I've lost 5 stones to be able to ride the horses I want to ride and so they can carry me easily. It wasn't easy, it's still not easy but ultimately if that is what it takes that is what I will do.

Good for you. Well done.

I have more important things going on in my life. You can argue till you are blue in the face but it doesn't alter the fact that what you keep going on about is nothing to do with my original post whatsoever.

 

[ester]

AA also provided photographic evidence that a horse doesn't have to look like it has cushings on AC's other thread. I think I might have to ask if I can borrow those in future.

 

[Tiddlypom]

OP, quite separately from the possibility of your horse injuring himself on first turnout on grass, you seem to be ignoring the many folk who have advised you test him for Cushing's.

https://forums-secure.horseandhound...ergy-any-feed-experts&p=13238587#post13238587

AA also gave a vivid first hand account of what can happen on post #42 of this thread.

You seem insistent on 'seeing how he goes' rather then getting him tested now, despite much advice on how risky a plan that is. You insist that he gets all the vet care he needs, whilst stating that you can't afford the Cushing's test until you have paid off your current vet bill. The Cushing's test is very cheap in the overall package of horse ownership, and a lot cheaper than a big vets bill ending up with a dead horse.

I shall now bow out from this thread.

 

[applecart14]

OP, quite separately from the possibility of your horse injuring himself on first turnout on grass, you seem to be ignoring the many folk who have advised you test him for Cushing's.

https://forums-secure.horseandhound...ergy-any-feed-experts&p=13238587#post13238587

AA also gave a vivid first hand account of what can happen on post #42 of this thread.

You seem insistent on 'seeing how he goes' rather then getting him tested now, despite much advice on how risky a plan that is. You insist that he gets all the vet care he needs, whilst stating that you can't afford the Cushing's test until you have paid off your current vet bill. The Cushing's test is very cheap in the overall package of horse ownership, and a lot cheaper than a big vets bill ending up with a dead horse.

I shall now bow out from this thread.

Right ho. He has also got ulcers, kissing spine, sacroiliac disease, teeth problems and is in terrible pain according to the people on this forum. Deary me. Its a wonder there is any body part left to criticize or second guess.

 

[ester]

It does always seem to be the case that AC14 always gets answers she doesn't want, although I can never work out what she does want people to say other than poor you, you try so hard, especially when in this instance much of the way the horse will be turned out will be determined by the yard (when, size of paddock etc so only limited input is possible anyway).

In that instance because she was asking about feeding not cushings. Obviously people with other experiences know that some things can be indicative of stuff going on- which is sort of what I mean by people taking a holistic view. It isn't just AC's posts it happens all the time with the forum that people go this may seem unrelated have you thought of X. I can think of several horses off hand that have had their cushings tests only because it has been flagged up as a possibility on here and I don't see then why going slightly off piste with an answer is a bad thing especially with something that can have such far reaching ramifications but fly under the radar for quite some time. I think it must be quite disheartening for the likes of AA to go through her story with pics to just be shrugged off.

 

[Tiarella]

Just for the record, I'm at a yard in Solihull with...all year turn out incl 24/7, individual or herd with lush grass or minimum grass depending on horse, huge stables, choice of bedding, lovely arena surface, 100+ acres to ride round, great road hacking, places to park your lorry...the list goes on...£35pw and charged on top for extras....there's a 3 year waiting list though.

My opinion on turning him out? Just chuck him out and let him get on with it! Horses can injure themselves in the weirdest ways anyway so no point worrying over it

 

[ester]

Are you sure you aren't in some sort of parallel universe?

 

[Tiarella]

Are you sure you aren't in some sort of parallel universe?

quite possibly 😁 Or just have a YO that understands horses needs?

 

[AdorableAlice]

. I think it must be quite disheartening for the likes of AA to go through her story with pics to just be shrugged off.

No, not at all. it is a forum, other people will have learnt something from my experience. I am just fortunate to have been in horses for so long that I have seen quite a lot. There is plenty to learn from the forum, some threads and questions are really interesting. If you keep horses you will never stop learning, I certainly don't even with my motley crew of misfits. I am also lucky to have some very experienced people willing to help me too.

Horses will always surprise you, not necessarily in a good way either. Just a few weeks ago my fit cob had lami, I could not believe it. The big lad coming back with a positive cushing test, I remember listening to the vet telling me and thinking - only old ponies get that surely ?, not strapping great big blood horses. Live and learn. When you decide to stop learning is when to worry and that covers any subject not just horses.

 

[AdorableAlice]

quite possibly �� Or just have a YO that understands horses needs?

Is that the same yard that Ted The Twit does his baby dressage tests at in Lapworth by any chance.

 

[tallyho!]

I know I'm being lazy but I want to change horsekeeping!

What you describe is normal for horses on livery, you would never keep a zoo animal like that!

Think about it. Move if you have to.

I just think horsekeeping/livery HAS to change.

 

[AdorableAlice]

I know I'm being lazy but I want to change horsekeeping!

What you describe is normal for horses on livery, you would never keep a zoo animal like that!

Think about it. Move if you have to.

I just think horsekeeping/livery HAS to change.

To what ?, what would be your ideal. I know what mine is, but lets hear others ideals.

 

[Regandal]

I am very lucky. The yard my horses are on has ample grazing, running to too much in the summer. The only thing we can't do is put up field shelters, although some of the fields have natural shelter. 24/7 turnout if wanted. My 2 live out as much as possible.
I opted for 2 stables that no-one else wanted, as they are an old barn/byre split into 2, with a metal half door. There is a small grass 'pen' in front of the stable which can be used for turnout if weather is foul or horse coming off box rest.

Downside? Our school is grass, only really useable in summer. A compromise I am happy to make, as the hacking is great. It's the best I can do for my horses in the local area.

 

[Dave's Mam]

I am actually very taken aback in what folk are charged / what they get for their money. I rent a stable & a paddock, bedding is free if I need it & a huge bale of hay is £30. It costs me £15 a week. Now I get no assistance except if other liveries help out, but hundreds of pounds a week for no turnout & arsey yardies sounds like hell.

 

[Leo Walker]

Are you sure you aren't in some sort of parallel universe?

quite possibly 😁 Or just have a YO that understands horses needs?

I'm at a yard now where the YO understands horses needs and has gone completely out of her way to accommodate me and my sadly, fat pony. I found her because the yard he was on wasn't suitable for him so I got off my bum and found another one. There are lots of yards out there, a lot dont advertise and cant be seen when your passing etc. Current yard will be muddy in winter, but I have a young sound horse and the most important thing for me is limited grass and lots of turn out. Hard to find! But find it I did because I looked for it. I trawled Facebook/Preloved/the internet in general. I spent about 20 hours one week driving round and knocking on peoples doors. I also asked every horsey person I know, and my physio put me onto this yard. Livery yards are all about compromise, but its the owner who has to make the compromises not the horses.

In Applecarts situation I could point you to 4 or 5 yards locally that would suit turnout and mud wise. They might not have an amazing school, or the hacking might be limited, or you might have to travel further or through the town to get there, or pay more for assistance. But they are there if you look for them

I actually found it much, much harder to find somewhere suitable for a good doer than I would have found it to find somewhere with good turnout, and a reasonable school and hacking. And I was doing all of this as an emergency as I had to move my boy ASAP as he wasn't coping where he was.

I think people can get hung up on the things that suit them, like a flood lit school or good storage or being local etc. Those things dont matter to the horse, but it can be hard for owners to see that. I'm lucky in a way as I adore my boy and I just like having him, riding isnt the be all and end all for me. I do appreciate that it is for some people, and thats ok. So long as you arent putting your riding above the horses well being

 

[Tiarella]

Is that the same yard that Ted The Twit does his baby dressage tests at in Lapworth by any chance.

No, I'm 10 minutes away from there, but I do know who you're on about

 

[tallyho!]

To what ?, what would be your ideal. I know what mine is, but lets hear others ideals.

Well I think bigger stables IF they have to be stabled. I think 12x12 is small - I know mine is. Theres enough room to turn and lay down but is it enough?
- my ideal would be horses kept in larger barns where they can have company and can groom and socialise.

Also I think larger acreage should be afforded and less horses kept if there is no turnout. I think little solitary paddocks are damaging.
- my ideal would be herd turnout all year round in enriched paddocks with trees and herbs grown as part of the forage - hardcore/sand track systems are a really good idea in winter to avoid the mud issue.

Of course, I know there are limitations and what I describe will be ridiculous to some but I have seen it done and the horses are all calm and sociable and there haven't been any incidents with injuries - in fact the owners report less vet call outs.

 

[Bojingles]

Just as an aside, until Jan of this year I was at a yard with no winter turnout. It was my first winter at the yard and I left as soon as I could. For me, it was as much the mental effects on the horses as the physical. Perfectly good-natured horses because aggressive, normally chilled-out souls started weaving, kicking their doors, the list goes on. My two appeared to be coping well but I will not keep horses under those conditions. No movement? No grooming or socialising? I worked mine every day but I felt every day how wrong it was. And then, in a bonkers twist, the grass was so good by the time they finally get turned out that half of them have to wear grazing muzzles!!

 

[Shadowdancing]

Just as an aside, until Jan of this year I was at a yard with no winter turnout. It was my first winter at the yard and I left as soon as I could. For me, it was as much the mental effects on the horses as the physical. Perfectly good-natured horses because aggressive, normally chilled-out souls started weaving, kicking their doors, the list goes on. My two appeared to be coping well but I will not keep horses under those conditions. No movement? No grooming or socialising? I worked mine every day but I felt every day how wrong it was. And then, in a bonkers twist, the grass was so good by the time they finally get turned out that half of them have to wear grazing muzzles!!

There's a rumour our yard may stop turn out in winter this year... if it happens, I'll be gone. My horse coped quite well with short periods being kept in but I was exhausted riding and lunging twice a day to keep her exercised, and it's not just that, as you say, it's being able to 'talk' to her friends! I don't care how far I have to go. It's not something I'm prepared to inflict on her. Inflict being the right word to my mind, it's no way for them to live.

 

[gunnergundog]

OK, so everyone has had their say, so now why not turn things around and try and HELP the OP in a practical way ?

A number of people have mentioned or insinuated that they know of yards or could find yards better than that the OP is on, so come on, I challenge you, list them! People on here are great at sleuthing out trolls so lets sleuth out some new yards for her , eh?

Make it easy for the OP who has obviously got a lot going on in life - you should be able to deduce her requirements from the various posts above (ie environs of Solihull, 25 mins drive from centre, assisted/part livery, reasonable cost, good surface and hacking) then you can add on the horses requirements as you have discussed above - oh, and reasonable availability too! (No three year waiting lists!)

Will be interested to see what is proposed.

 

[applecart14]

OK, so everyone has had their say, so now why not turn things around and try and HELP the OP in a practical way ?

A number of people have mentioned or insinuated that they know of yards or could find yards better than that the OP is on, so come on, I challenge you, list them! People on here are great at sleuthing out trolls so lets sleuth out some new yards for her , eh?

Make it easy for the OP who has obviously got a lot going on in life - you should be able to deduce her requirements from the various posts above (ie environs of Solihull, 25 mins drive from centre, assisted/part livery, reasonable cost, good surface and hacking) then you can add on the horses requirements as you have discussed above - oh, and reasonable availability too! (No three year waiting lists!)

Will be interested to see what is proposed.

I've sent you a long PM but not sure you have received it, its not showing in my sent items.

 

[Red-1]

I've sent you a long PM but not sure you have received it, its not showing in my sent items.

If you send a PM that is too long the system eats it :-(

 

[Red-1]

OK, so everyone has had their say, so now why not turn things around and try and HELP the OP in a practical way ?

A number of people have mentioned or insinuated that they know of yards or could find yards better than that the OP is on, so come on, I challenge you, list them! People on here are great at sleuthing out trolls so lets sleuth out some new yards for her , eh?

Make it easy for the OP who has obviously got a lot going on in life - you should be able to deduce her requirements from the various posts above (ie environs of Solihull, 25 mins drive from centre, assisted/part livery, reasonable cost, good surface and hacking) then you can add on the horses requirements as you have discussed above - oh, and reasonable availability too! (No three year waiting lists!)

Will be interested to see what is proposed.

I don't know the area personally, but there was a similar thread on here... http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?650976-Livery-yards-Solihull-area

 

[applecart14]

If you send a PM that is too long the system eats it :-(

That's what's happened.

 

[xspiralx]

Well this is a rather nasty thread!

Granted OP doesn't help herself, but I think anyone on this forum would get a bit hacked off with tens of sanctimonious posts criticising their horse care and management. Particularly when completely unasked for!

In the real world, very many people have to make compromises with their horse care. I know of very very few yards around where I am that offer 24/7 turnout in winter - most are on half a day, and plenty don't turn out in the fields at all when it's very wet. Is it ideal? No. But I know a great many horses that thrive in routines like that - with owners and yard owners that care deeply about the welfare and happiness of their horses.

Sometimes fixing one issue can cause another. Yes, 24/7 turnout is better for soft tissue strength, but there are other factors to consider too. Walking over poached ground (I haven't seen a field this winter in this area that wasn't deep, wet and slippery even if not muddy) or slipping can risk strains and injuries - particularly if you have a horse that likes to hoon about. Standing on wet ground can cause an increased risk of abscesses and foot problems in horses that are prone to that.

You have to weigh up the pros and cons of all the options, knowing your individual horse, and try to make a decision that will be the best one for them. It is clear to me that the OP adores her horse and has done what she feels is right for him.

 

[ester]

Everyone makes compromises,
they usually accept they are compromises though rather than insist they are doing no harm despite the huge weight of scientific evidence saying otherwise.
They also consider that if they are making regular forum posts about injuries to their horse that maybe something more global isn't working.
I don't doubt that the OP adores her horse and she regularly tells us how much the vet bills are but then I wonder if that is money spent in the right places, prevention better than cure and all that.

 

[Frumpoon]

Ooooh I'm in this area, I'd really appreciate being able to avoid the pack of dogs place, where is this?

 

[xspiralx]

Everyone makes compromises,
they usually accept they are compromises though rather than insist they are doing no harm despite the huge weight of scientific evidence saying otherwise.
They also consider that if they are making regular forum posts about injuries to their horse that maybe something more global isn't working.
I don't doubt that the OP adores her horse and she regularly tells us how much the vet bills are but then I wonder if that is money spent in the right places, prevention better than cure and all that.

And I'd say you've made that point quite clearly now, a number of times.

So maybe it's time to give it a rest now instead of continuing to harangue her about it?