Tell we what you see , besides a lame pony

Well to my surprise he is already home.
Trotted up sound
Flexion tests fine
Lunged sound
Did the thing on the long reins but can’t home in on it as it’s intermittent, can’t determine if it is pain or confusion.
Went from being too dangerous to ride to having a blast on the lunge and then rode lovely by the nurse ( not easy but no signs of pain), trying to throw his shoulder out etc, napping at the gate, the odd buck in canter, the tranter gate, I then got on and he instantly didn’t want to go left anymore and was locking, tanked a few times but very different to when the nurse rode him, this might be my inexperience yet again :(


Bone scan was written off for now as he isn’t showing enough to know 100% it is pain, it will wipe out my insurance and at present they just don’t know. The only time he showed the sign was on the long lines going left, he didn’t do it under saddle so something had improved... possibly the hock issue.

We know there is an issue in the hocks, but vet said they looked fine! we have come away with a bute trial and instructed to keep a diary.

The sleep thing was looked at and it is has been suggested it is a recumbent sleeping disorder ( fairly common) obviously if he starts laying down in the bute trail then this could be pain. The video is being sent around a few experts.

He was a little short but the more forward he went the less short he became.

Vets were lovely and I appreciated not being pushed into things when it’s all a bit confusing. Going to bring his dentist appointment forward just to check that all ok.

He actually went fantastic, he had a spring in his step being somewhere new, they all said he is a very smart moving boy when he wants to be. It’s so frustrating for me and them, if you can’t see a horse is lame what can you go on, nerve blocking would have been pointless because there was again nothing to home in on, he didn’t have a tell to nerve block, it would have been utterly pointless

So... the saga continues!


Has anyone done a bute trail? If there is pain anywhere is Bute strong enough for him to no longer feel the pain ?
 
No bute isn't that strong if there is really severe pain. how much have you got to give him?

I appreciate you must be feeling quite frustrated at the moment but all credit to you for investigating, and it must feel like an impossible position to be in when you have people telling you on here that he is lame, yet the vets don't really find much. It's obvious you're doing your absolute best.

Did the vets tell you to just crack on while on the bute trial? If so, don't feel bad about that. sometimes it's helpful when you have something so inconclusive like this, to carry on until either it resolves itself or becomes more obvious so you aren't on a wild goose chase any more.
 
My mare is on a bute trial atm. (Near hind stifle isn't locking as it should, and trying to determine whether it's pain, conformation or muscle weakness.) My vet has said the same as yours - she isn't lame enough for a nerve block to be any use, so it's difficult to diagnose. It also doesn't help that she's very stoic about pain.

In her case, there's been a very subtle difference on the bute, but I'm not sure whether that's the painkiller or because I've been far more consistent about working her, so she's building up muscle that helps with the issue.

She's on the bute until the end of the week, and my instructions have been to keep working her the same once she's off it, to see if there's deterioration or continued improvement. I'm also getting fortnightly visits from my physio, who's the one who first identified the problem.
 
If I were you OP I’d get off the forum, get him into some decent level of work and see what happens. It’ll go one of two ways, either he will push through and improve or he will break enough for the vets to see something.

Sorry bit blunt and not how everyone would like to do it but you’ve done everything you can. I’d get him as fit as you can and see where your at.
 
I've also done a bute trial - frustratingly it made no difference.

If you are worried about whether your riding is influencing his way of going I can highly recommend some biomechanics lessons. I'm going to a teacher who trained with Mary Wanless and for the first time in 40 odd years I know why my left leg flaps!
 
If you are doing a bute trial, you must be prepared to work him, not just give him an easy time, otherwise you won't be able to see if it has worked or no. I recently did one for mine, it didn't stop his front limb lameness but it did cure his hind limb lameness which backed up that the back leg was suffering as there was problem in front which was bilateral so I hadn't picked it up. He never actually looked consistently lame and competed and won two Elementary tests (before I started the bute trial) but he felt wrong to me. We injected his front feet and the back leg came sound on its own.

It is a tough one but quite telling the query over the long reins, is he confused or having an issue and that he went well for the vet nurse. It's easy to think there is something wrong with our horses when they are fine. I am very guilty of that. I'd look at getting him a lot fitter while on the bute trial and maintaining it afterwards.
 
Michen said:
If I were you OP I’d get off the forum, get him into some decent level of work and see what happens. It’ll go one of two ways, either he will push through and improve or he will break enough for the vets to see something.

Sorry bit blunt and not how everyone would like to do it but you’ve done everything you can. I’d get him as fit as you can and see where your at.[/QUOT


that would be my plan, with the proviso i would not break him, i would use the upwards trajectory of improving fitness and tolerance of extra work to mend him,

and would concentrate my whole efforts on riding classically, riding and training for the benefit and improvement of the horse, riding with a light seat and leaving front end to sort itself out by allowing the horse to truly work through its whole body and re align itself become very straight and then see where you are
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When we had trouble with a definitive diagnosis, I put mine in medium work and it was enough to show a more consistent lameness. However I avoided school work and stuck to hacking across varied terrain at w/t/c, i. e. fitness building. It made him uncomfortable enough to buck in canter, and his hind end went from under him twice. At that point we called it a day.

A bute trial had been inconclusive and we had already had some inconclusive neck and hock x rays at that point.

In your shoes I would either do that, or pay a pro to work him for you as it is very possible for a rider to cause lameness issues, especially where there is an underlying problem. I really would forget all about an outline, gadgets, etc, etc and treat him like a newly backed youngster; find his own balance and rhythm without interference as I suspect that hasn't been happening for him. Preferably with someone experienced to do it for you while you have lessons on a range of other horses to build your own confidence, feel and timing.
 
Well overall that's good news. The vets have said that you have a sound horse, hocks aside which are under vet attention already, and if there was something severe they would have found it.

Yes there might be something underlying but that can be said of every horse. If you look hard enough you will find something with every horse.

I hope that you can take some comfort from today. You are not missing something obvious and the treatment to his hocks is making a difference. Your vet and now a vet hospital/fresh pair of eyes have been all over him and can't find anything.

You are already a very caring and vigilant owner, what you don't know you ask about. As much as this forum can be a helpful resource that taps into years of experience and knowledge I'd be wary of muddying the waters. Previous posts have all but written poor StrawB off and here is a fully qualified, experienced hospital vet telling you he's sound. Like the old saying going if you ask 5 equestrians a question you'll get 7 opinions in reply!

Like someone else had said carry on in line with vet's instructions and within any plan that vet and/or vet physio have given you. In the simplest of terms he will either continue to improve or any issues (eg what happened on the long lines) will become more obvious and then there will be something to investigate. So crack on! Enjoy your horse, you've made a huge improvement in a really short space of time. You've addressed vet issues, have a physio, saddle been checked and dental being scheduled; I honestly don't know what else you could do to ensure his comfort.

Please don't beat yourself up about your riding; everyone has scope for improvement. That's the "fun" part allegedly! ha ha I've only been aware of your posts for around 4mths and I've noticed a big difference in the short space of time. Hopefully now that Strawberry has been given the OK by the vet hospital you can continue on that tangent.

I look forward to your next update :D
 
TPO said:
Well overall that's good news. The vets have said that you have a sound horse, hocks aside which are under vet attention already, and if there was something severe they would have found it.

Yes there might be something underlying but that can be said of every horse. If you look hard enough you will find something with every horse.

I hope that you can take some comfort from today. You are not missing something obvious and the treatment to his hocks is making a difference. Your vet and now a vet hospital/fresh pair of eyes have been all over him and can't find anything.

You are already a very caring and vigilant owner, what you don't know you ask about. As much as this forum can be a helpful resource that taps into years of experience and knowledge I'd be wary of muddying the waters. Previous posts have all but written poor StrawB off and here is a fully qualified, experienced hospital vet telling you he's sound. Like the old saying going if you ask 5 equestrians a question you'll get 7 opinions in reply!

Like someone else had said carry on in line with vet's instructions and within any plan that vet and/or vet physio have given you. In the simplest of terms he will either continue to improve or any issues (eg what happened on the long lines) will become more obvious and then there will be something to investigate. So crack on! Enjoy your horse, you've made a huge improvement in a really short space of time. You've addressed vet issues, have a physio, saddle been checked and dental being scheduled; I honestly don't know what else you could do to ensure his comfort.

Please don't beat yourself up about your riding; everyone has scope for improvement. That's the "fun" part allegedly! ha ha I've only been aware of your posts for around 4mths and I've noticed a big difference in the short space of time. Hopefully now that Strawberry has been given the OK by the vet hospital you can continue on that tangent.

I look forward to your next update :D
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but thats it don`t beat yourself up about your riding, as long a you ride considerately you will do him no harm and in time the improvements will come, that the way it works in my experience
 
tristar said:
but thats it don`t beat yourself up about your riding, as long a you ride considerately you will do him no harm and in time the improvements will come, that the way it works in my experience
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This. You are not an appalling rider so dont blame yourself. You said he was naughty for the vet nurse as well, so clearly its not just you! I would be very tempted to find someone sympathetic but firm and send him off for a month. Have them work him twice a day, hacking and schooling and see if that fixes the issue or breaks him enough to see it clearly.

It has the added benefit that he will come back educated and it is much, much easier to ride an educated horse than a green one, so it will help you improve as well.
 
Michen said:
If I were you OP I’d get off the forum, get him into some decent level of work and see what happens. It’ll go one of two ways, either he will push through and improve or he will break enough for the vets to see something.

Sorry bit blunt and not how everyone would like to do it but you’ve done everything you can. I’d get him as fit as you can and see where your at.
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This 100%. My horse when unfit looks lame. He does this skipping thing, its hard to describe, but he appears lame. Give him a few weeks of work and hes sound as a pound and the skipping completely disappears. Sometimes I think with lack of fitness, if there is a weakness there then it will display itself because exercise is harder when you're unfit. Get fitter and you strengthen up that weakness.
 
Peter7917 said:
This 100%. My horse when unfit looks lame. He does this skipping thing, its hard to describe, but he appears lame. Give him a few weeks of work and hes sound as a pound and the skipping completely disappears. Sometimes I think with lack of fitness, if there is a weakness there then it will display itself because exercise is harder when you're unfit. Get fitter and you strengthen up that weakness.
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On vet instructions mine has now been off ridden work for 7 months and I really don't think it's done her any favours - muscle tone shocking and it's not like she's looking any better in her action.

So I would tend to agree in HK's case to get Strawberry working and fit and see what you and up with. Good luck!
 
Michen said:
If I were you OP I’d get off the forum, get him into some decent level of work and see what happens. It’ll go one of two ways, either he will push through and improve or he will break enough for the vets to see something.

Sorry bit blunt and not how everyone would like to do it but you’ve done everything you can. I’d get him as fit as you can and see where your at.
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I think this is good advice: check that your vet feels that getting him back into work is ok then find or continue with a really good instructor to get your horse working properly and reasonably hard: if he is ok then he will get better, fitter and more muscled which will help. It may also help if there is a genuine behavioural element to the problem. You will have a goal this way: to work him and you may find out if/what the problem is. If the vet nurse riding him got a good tune out of him, you may just need a different sort of riding approach and an instructor will help you find the best way forward.
 
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