The rise of individual turnout musings

[Gallop_Away]

I find it so sad that postage stamp individual turnout has become more normalised over the years.
My 3 are currently turned out on some 15 acres for the summer in a *shock and horror* mixed herd consisting of 8 horses (including mine).
Have I had vet bills from scrapes and mishaps with other people's horses? Yes. Have I had rugs ripped from playing and farting about with other people's horses? Yes. Would I always choose to keep them in a mixed herd turnout on large pastures year round? Absolutely yes!!!
Horses are a herd animal and in the majority of cases enjoy interaction with other horses. I would certainly not deny my horses that (save for medical reasons obviously).

 

[humblepie]

Our yard has individual turn out or fields for two horses. Quite a few people have two horses of their own or there are friends who share a field. Mine is on individual turn out although can touch and talk to other horses on fields either side of his. I do sometimes feel a bit sorry for him that it would nice for him to a have a friend. His field is a reasonable size not one of these postage stamp one although when I see lovely big fields with old hedges and trees I do get field jealousy.

 

[Goldie's mum]

She is a horse who needs company to thrive.

This describes all horses.

 

[ihatework]

It saddens me greatly that this is becoming the norm. Around me it is virtually impossible to find a good livery yard that has anything other than small individual paddocks. The couple I know that don’t, have other compromises that far outweigh the turnout.

I’ve had to accept individual for the majority of my working horses. I’m lucky that actually the 2 I have sent out on competition loan seem to have been able to accommodate pair turnout at my encouragement- anything I have in work though is sadly on individual.

What I don’t compromise on however is working horses having holidays where they get group 24/7 away from the livery yard. Downtime to be a horse. It’s the best I can do.

ETA non working horses are always out 24/7 in decent fields in a group. Getting harder to find suitable land but I’m prepared to keep them further away and not see them every day to achieve it.

 

[Surbie]

I flick through yard ads when they come up, just to see what is on offer and I do think it's sad that, while facilities might sound amazing, somewhere in the bullet list of what's on offer you increasingly see individual turnout.

I prefer herd turnout, even with the risks that comes with. I'm on a big yard with about 8 per field. They are big fields with mature trees and hedges and (the holy grail for my fatty) a whopping great hill. The ones in our field play fair bit, and there is the occasional scrape, but in general they appear very content, grazing with different horses at different times in the day and hanging out with the horses either side of them under the trees.

I do think it also comes down to being able to get the right mix in the herd. My horse would not be ok in the next field over - some of the horses in that one can be aggressive and he isn't one to hold his own. He has been beaten up at a previous yard and, if I hadn't been moving to get longer turnout hours, I would have temporarily put him on individual turnout to keep him away from that particular gelding while I was looking for better options. I have had him on individual turnout while he was recovering from things before and he puts up with it, but doesn't seem happy.

One yard I was on would turn out preferably individually or in pairs, with a maximum of three in a field. The YM's rationale was that they were then quieter, there were fewer injuries and, particularly with geldings, they churned the ground less as they didn't move so much at speed, which I thought was a bit sad. There wasn't a lack of land there either.

 

[2ndtimearound]

It was always herd turnout when I was young. Sometimes large herds, sometimes 5-6 horses but individual was the sick paddock

I was looking at photos from Cannock chase trekking centre on Instagram - 40 odd horses all out together. Mares, geldings, all ages. Very happy horses.

Yep, they are very happy horses! Intros are carefully managed, and there are a few nanny horses in the herd that are great at looking after the new ones. There are still two that are kept individually (one of which is a stallion), but the rest are very happy as a herd. Most of which are fully shod too.

 

[Tarragon]

I had several career ending injuries done to horses in large group turnout. I’m now on a private yard with just my girls together. I love the idea of herd turnout, but it can be a nightmare if it’s not managed properly or there are horses shod behind in the herd.

I lost a pony that was turned out with bigger horses and had a leg broken from a kick; I would not like a large group turn out where I had no control over the other horses.
Personally, I decided a long time ago to have two ponies, so that wherever we were, they had their own little herd. That way, it really didn't matter what others did around them.

 

[Jambarissa]

I also feel privileged to be able to watch horses being horses.

15 in our largest herd. They tend to stay as a group and hang out away from the yard but the ones that come in overnight split off about 4pm and head closer to the gate.

At coming in time in winter they all head up to the gate as the light fades but stand back from it then when an owner opens the gate the right horse wanders over. Whilst being obvious it's also kind of magic.

When I got my newest horse she had been a show pony and kept in individual turnout to keep her safe. I was warned she was the lowest of the low in the pecking order and she had very few issues with even our bossies horses because she knew her place. Within 6 months she was at least midway in order and is happy to even stand up to the herd leader if they're being an arse.

Through the years we've had very, very few injuries. They have plenty of room and plenty to eat so why fight? It's just youngsters moving through the ranks and testing boundaries that cause problems.

 

[equinerebel]

I would rather have my horse pts than put her on individual turnout. Sure it might protect her from kicks, but the mental stress it would inflict on her would significantly lower her quality of life. She is social and hates being alone.

 

[MurphysMinder]

I live near a stud farm , it always amazes me the number of mares turned out together I would say 50 odd isn’t unusual , always seem to be grazing peacefully, although they are in large fields so plenty of space .

 

[Hormonal Filly]

I would rather have my horse pts than put her on individual turnout. Sure it might protect her from kicks, but the mental stress it would inflict on her would significantly lower her quality of life. She is social and hates being alone.

That’s very extreme.

Around here there are very few yards that offer herd turnout with safe introductions for new horses. It’s terrifying to watch and there has been some injuries resulting in PTS. I decided to have my mare on her own (large) paddock at my current yard for now, able to groom others over the fence then put her in that situation. She is in a routine and I haven’t noticed any difference to when she was in a herd. I’m trying to find a couple of other liveries who would like to make a small herd, but don’t think the YO will allow it.

I keep looking for a more suitable place with small herd turnout, with safe introductions but it seems impossible to find that combined with all year turnout.

Found one place, small herd but they’re only allowed out between 9-4pm all year.

 

[equinerebel]

That’s very extreme.

Around here there are very few yards that offer herd turnout with safe introductions for new horses. It’s terrifying to watch and there has been some injuries resulting in PTS. I decided to have my mare on her own (large) paddock at my current yard for now, able to groom others over the fence then put her in that situation. She is in a routine and I haven’t noticed any difference to when she was in a herd. I’m trying to find a couple of other liveries who would like to make a small herd, but don’t think the YO will allow it.

I keep looking for a more suitable place with small herd turnout, with safe introductions but it seems impossible to find that combined with all year turnout.

Found one place, small herd but they’re only allowed out between 9-4pm all year.

It's not extreme for my horse. She ties herself in knots if left alone and has done since she was a youngster. For her, she would not cope with individual turnout and at 17, I wouldn't expect her to.

 

[Sealine]

My horse would hate individual turn out and I don't think it's a natural way to keep horses. My horse is very happy in a herd of 8 geldings. Introductions are managed but not to the extent some yards manage them. We put the new horse out with one other and then add the others one by one over a couple of hours. I always go out for a long ride and my horse goes out last when they've all settled. We have large fields with plenty of grass. We don't poo pick and no hay is allowed in the fields. There is a yard rule that no horse is left out alone. Between us we always seem to work out a routine that suits everyone and we help each other out if we need to.

I've had a mare badly injured from a field kick but it wouldn't make me insist on individual turnout. At one point we had a couple of mares that needed individual turn out after either causing injuries or being very dominant and aggressive. The yard doesn't really offer individual turnout so when a mare left it was replaced with a gelding and the yard is now geldings only.

 

[Jambarissa]

I'd imagine that most horses are fine in individual turnout so long as there's a horse in the next paddock, it's no different to being in a stable. But to me it's not ideal.

The option just isn't available for evrtyobe though, I don't know of another livery near me that dies large group turnout and worry for the future if I need to move

 

[TGM]

I live near a stud farm , it always amazes me the number of mares turned out together I would say 50 odd isn’t unusual , always seem to be grazing peacefully, although they are in large fields so plenty of space .

That probably works really well in that scenario - it is likely that all the mares are unshod, they have plenty of space and grazing, and there are not lots of different owners bringing horses in and out all the time (often with the added complication of treat feeding).

 

[Barton Bounty]

I would rather have my horse pts than put her on individual turnout. Sure it might protect her from kicks, but the mental stress it would inflict on her would significantly lower her quality of life. She is social and hates being alone.

Omgoodness that is severe!

Im not sure how you know she would be mentally stressed. My horse is social, from across the fence not in the same field , i have a massive field just for him

 

[equinerebel]

Omgoodness that is severe!

Im not sure how you know she would be mentally stressed. My horse is social, from across the fence not in the same field , i have a massive field just for him

How is it severe? At 4, she went through a fence because she was left turned out alone. I am able to tell when she is stressed and when she is not. Every horse is different and I know for a fact that the specific horse I'm talking about would not cope with individual turnout. I would therefore never intentionally put her in a situation she wouldn't cope with. Her quality of life would be terrible because she would be miserable, and with her pre existing health conditions, she would suffer. She is a wonderful horse who has given me her best years and I think a great deal of her. I wouldn't keep that horse on individual turnout no more than I would keep her stabled 24/7.

My choice is not a judgement on others choices. I am talking about my specific horse.

 

[First Frost]

I prefer small group turnout rather than large herds or individual. I'm very lucky to be on a private yard, my 3 go out together in fields with hedges and varied forage . I really hate the electric fence prisons seen on so many livery yards.
I wouldn't feel comfortable putting mine out with a large herd, they are very settled in their group and generally don't damage their rugs or each other.

 

[SpeedyPony]

I don't like seeing the growing trend for individual turnout either- ours are on rented grazing, as I can't stable the old boy so most yards would be out anyway, but I think that if I was on a yard I would need to have at least 2, so that they could go out together if herd turnout wasn't available.
As it is we have ours separated into a 3 and a pair- I'd like to have all 5 in together, but two of the geldings will not get on- we did the proper introduction over a fence for several weeks, but with no luck. It does at least work out for the grazing though, as the three fatties can be in their track and the other two can be on the better grass.
ETA- I think the small groups is a good compromise- it's easier to manage personality clashes if there are several groups available, so that horses that will not get on can be kept separate but also have company. Pairs can be a problem for separation issues though, IME.

 

[Barton Bounty]

How is it severe? At 4, she went through a fence because she was left turned out alone. I am able to tell when she is stressed and when she is not. Every horse is different and I know for a fact that the specific horse I'm talking about would not cope with individual turnout. I would therefore never intentionally put her in a situation she wouldn't cope with. Her quality of life would be terrible because she would be miserable, and with her pre existing health conditions, she would suffer. She is a wonderful horse who has given me her best years and I think a great deal of her. I wouldn't keep that horse on individual turnout no more than I would keep her stabled 24/7.

My choice is not a judgement on others choices. I am talking about my specific hor

True

 

[equinerebel]

Whatever you say

???

 

[Barton Bounty]

???

I change my post realising i was in the wrong post still

 

[Barton Bounty]

I change my post realising i was in the wrong post still

Its supposed to be in did I take a photo today, just lucky i didnt attach the cat

 

[vam]

I've always had herd turnout and always preferred it despite my ginger boy receiving a career ending injury that ultimately resulted in him being PTS. When i got my mare i also moved to a different area and individual turnout was much more popular, i was on a couple yards with group turnout but she ended up being top dog and actually caused a few injuries and stressed herself out being in charge all the time and never switching off, even in the stable.
As it was i moved again to another yard with small acre paddocks, started with 3 to a field and then 2 when they stopped rotating them, the field where horse sick and muddy and it wasnt good. Thankfully she didnt get completely attached to the other horse so they where both happy to be left on there own, its a nightmare when you cant do anything because they can come in or go out without their mate, im not a fan of pair turnout for that reason.
In the end the other horse left the yard and she has been on her own since, she has friends on all sides and corners but will only interact on her terms and is much more chilled. I dont like it that much but she also has EMS so her being on her own means i can manager her much better, i have grass in the winter which i never would have before and can restrict her with a track round the edge in the summer. It's a compromise i have had to make to keep her physically healthy.
I may have the opportunity to buy land in the next few years and i'm having to seriously think about how best to manage her.
In an ideal world i would like a group of 5 or 6 hours in big, regularly rotated fields so there is no chance of them getting hungry and arsey nor being left on there own but but equally it my not suit her issues.
Anyway, i've made my choice based on circumstances and needs, perfect its not but it has to do. As an aside, she got really injured when i put her and her field mate, out with another to make a group of 3 and also injured herself while on her own going through a bit of electric fence that nearly ended her ridden career, individual turnout doesn't stop horses being idiots and trying to hurt themselves but i guess it can limit it.

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

Dex is on individual, I was sold paired when I viewed the yard but due to a change in livery and hers needing individual he is out on his own. He can groom both sides of the fence, and as soon as there is an opportunity for him to have a friend it will be taken. Yes, it's a bit gutting but the yard is perfect in every other way, we have great support, we have great hacking suitable for a youngster, the care on the part livery is second to none, it's one of the only good yards within 30 mins drive of my house, the school has a great surface and the fields are very well managed, and on sandy soil and there is no b*tching allowed, it's super friendly too. This might not be popular on this forum, but part of my consideration to staying is that I have to consider my mental health and QOL too. Thankfully, there is a youngster coming back from youngstock livery in Dec and his owner is keen for him to go out with Dex so happy days.

He doesn't display any stress signs, pacing, calling, not sleeping, waiting to come in, going mad when others come past, reluctance to go out or keenness to come in - but I am not arrogant enough to believe that that means he wouldn't be happier with another. Although someone on this forum suggested that I shouldn't own him if I had him on individual, which is sodding ridiculous. There are worst things in the world and people forget that everyone has to work with their own circumstances and what is available to them. I would love to have the ideal turnout for him, but it doesn't exist in my expensive, clay based and overpopulated/steadily built on part of the country.

 

[expanding_horizon]

I hate individual turnout with a passion! I've been on yards where they've changed to this & I've swiftly left. My lads are both so sociable & seeing each of them alone in a square with a water bucket broke my heart, no playing, no grooming, no assisted fly swatting.
I personally could not deal with seeing my horses rotated between a box & a square grazing patch for their lives - as seems to slowly becoming the norm around here, with many yards having restricted turnout & using individual turnout as a selling point!
I agree, large herds can cause issues especially mixed or if not done right - also something I'm not fond of. BUT small groups based on age, size, dietary requirements & temperament I have NEVER had an issue with & in 19 years of having my older lad, he has never sustained more than a few scuffs & bites - something I see as a fair trade for him being out with buddies & being allowed to be a horse. I'd rather a calculated risk like that than the alternative of being stuck alone, after all, they're a horse not a machine with thoughts & feelings.

My horse lives out with good natural shelter and an interesting field. He has neighbours on 2 sides, and they interact a fair bit but is alone in his field. I don’t love him being alone but he eats a lot more Haylage and hard feed than his neighbors (big horse in hard work). And he doesn’t want to be stabled. So solo enables him to meet his dietary needs and live out. He doesn’t obviously mind though become more chewy as no fellow gelding to chew!

Solo has enabled me to set up hay feeding area of mud control mats, sleeping area of grass mats and mud control mats in gateway, and a partial track system, and to manage the field care. As I’d not be able to find doing so for a group.

And it’s a well drained, diverse, not horse sick field! Of sufficient size.

I’m very anti a pair and risk of pair bond, which is hard to manage if you don’t own both. (Know it works for some).

I changed my view a bit when (he was living in a herd of 5), I temporarily kept him in a solo corral camping with equine neighbours and he slept (and snored ) more than I’d seen him do since a few years back when he used to snore in his stable.

I do think it depends on the horse and the set up. But I don’t think solo with neighbours is always wrong. But equally 2.5 years ago he’d not have been happy solo. He’s changed.

On the flip side I’d always consider changing for a better set up for my horse, if situation came up or his needs changed.

 

[expanding_horizon]

It's not extreme for my horse. She ties herself in knots if left alone and has done since she was a youngster. For her, she would not cope with individual turnout and at 17, I wouldn't expect her to.

I agree it’s not extreme you know your horse and will do the right thing for her welfare. If you can’t provide a non distressing lifestyle for an older horse, PTS is not wrong.

I keep my horse solo (with neighbors) and believe him happy, but I’ve had other horses I’d never not keep in a herd.

 

[WBGG]

I wouldn't like individual turnout for my mare, but I appreciate that sometimes needs must. We have daily small herd turnout (4 mares). Out during the day and in at night. They aren't fed in the field, so no arguments about food, and plenty of space. Also no poo picking (YO harrows the field every week). When my horse was in mixed larger herd turnout 24/7 there were arguments about food and she was bullied and lost condition.
My preference would always be for single sex small herd turnout - she's never been happier (and if she's happy, so am I!!)

 

[Birker2020]

I’ve had horses for over 30 years and over the last 5 - 10, individual turnout seems to have become a thing. There are multiple yards near me, and I’d say only around 5% of these offer group turnout, or even pairs. Small paddocks without any form of shelter seem quite normal too.

I’ve had my horse since a yearling and she is 17 now. I’ve moved around over the years and due to this she has been on a variety of different setups. She is a horse who needs company to thrive. Sometimes this has shown itself loudly; resulting in a very stressy horse, other times much more subtle; a little quiet in demeanor, overly pleased to see me, even presenting as itchy - the one year she was so itchy she had a course of Dectomax and antihistamine. Neither stopped the itch but giving her friends did.

Maybe she an old-fashioned horse living in a modern world, maybe she shouts out her needs that bit louder, maybe I’ve had her so long I’m simply attuned to her and understand her language.

I accept some horses need individual turnout. I am however incredibly sad it’s become normalised – the standard approach to keeping a herd animal. I can’t help wondering how many behaviours, subtle or otherwise stem from this. I know there are risks to group turnout, mine has been injured in the past, yet surely mental health matters just as much? From a yard owner / owner perspective I get it, I really do, but it begs the question; whose needs are we meeting?

https://forums.horseandhound.co.uk/...us-in-the-paddock.830622/page-2#post-15278471 Similar post, my reply was #38

 

[Michen]

Im individual turnout and I would never have it any other way. My first horse after having my second son , ended up being kicking in the field by the herd bully , a really bad one. £3500 in vet bills. Did everything I could but weipers couldnt save him. I was absolutely distraught.. never ever again will I have shared turnout, not even if I get a second horse.

I lost a horse to a broken leg from a kick when he stood up from surgery, and I HATE that my horse doesn’t have company. I basically bought my second horse so that he would