The rise of individual turnout musings

[toppedoff]

I'd never judge someone's way of keeping their horses, everyone has their reasons and I have came to my own preferences if I were to ever own a horses but of course that's never ever set in stone. Everyone's responses have been really interesting

 

[exracehorse]

I used to be on a yard where they were all out together. Never again. It was carnage in the winter by the gate. Horses getting stressed as individual owners arrived at different times. The dangerous rude bolshy types who would hog the entrance. There were arguments with hay. Some wanted hay in fields. Some didn’t. Some needed soaked hay. Some guarded it all. Owners who never poo picked. Then when an owner left, another new horse was thrown in and it was flipping dangerous. The pecking order had to be re established.

 

[shortstuff99]

To add to my first post on this thread, my old mare (who is no longer with us) was the happiest she had ever been on individual turnout with neighbours either side.

She had herd turnout for about 18 years but she had serious resource guarding problems and would get in a lot of fights. As she got older she would viciously attack others. She was much happier (and others safer) when she didn't think she had to fight for food. She had grass etc so wasn't actually starving! It really isn't a one size fits all.

 

[Upthecreek]

I used to be on a yard where they were all out together. Never again. It was carnage in the winter by the gate. Horses getting stressed as individual owners arrived at different times. The dangerous rude bolshy types who would hog the entrance. There were arguments with hay. Some wanted hay in fields. Some didn’t. Some needed soaked hay. Some guarded it all. Owners who never poo picked. Then when an owner left, another new horse was thrown in and it was flipping dangerous. The pecking order had to be re established.

There are few things more worrying than being on a yard where new horses are added to the herd your horses are in and you have no involvement in it or control over it. You might be told on the day it’s joining or even just see a new horse in the field. You are almost waiting for the call to say that your horse has been injured or that your horse has injured another. I’m not sure which is worse.

 

[dottylottie]

personally, after lily being kicked and the high chance of her not coming sound, i’d much prefer to simply keep my two together. both of them are fine alone (had to be whilst on box rest), and this way the introduction process is entirely up to me as to how i go about it and how long for.

lily appreciates next door company, but out of the 3 horses she’s been turned out next to in her pen, she hasn’t bothered to say hello to any of them, even when they’ve come over to the fence to introduce themselves diva will settle on her own, but she’s definitely a social pony and enjoys having a buddy - her and her turnout buddy grazed side by side almost all day, same breed/height too so they look so sweet.

 

[FlyingCircus]

I would never do herd turnout with horses other than my own. Too much drama, from both horses I don't like and people I don't like.

I have my 2 out together on 2 acres over summer. Usually they are out together in winter too but this year I will separate them but have them next to each other, as my mare gets particularly hangry around hay.

It's great. I can manage them however I want, I can separate them as needed. I can poo pick everyday or once a week. Any kicks/bites are my problem to sort out.

 

[HorseMaid]

I've always been lucky enough to have herd or small group turnout. We've got our own land now and have got 3 there. My mare is currently in the doghouse and in an individual paddock simply because she's kicked one of the others and caused a fairly serious injury needing bone chip removal. It's safer at the moment to keep her separate because she likes to gallop around and wind the others up, and the other two are happy mooching about quietly while the injury heals.

She is HATING being in a paddock on her own even though she's right next to the other two. She's miserable, needy, whinnies at you lots and is desperate for scratches and attention when normally humans are a mere inconvenience to her very existence. She's going to have to suck it up for the next few weeks but will be going back with the others for sure, despite the fact I've now got a big vets bill to pay.

 

[Sossigpoker]

My old boy always lived in small herds and he never got any injuries, but I had problems with other owners. Like not poo picking, feeding their horse in the field and even hand feeding their horse surrounded by the others. Actually saw one girl double barrelled, just saw the horse's legs go above her head. She still didn't think that there was an issue feeding just her horse in the field while shooing the other horses away

 

[saddlesore]

Personally I hate the idea of individual turnout unless it’s a small pen for recovering from an injury or similar. Luckily it’s not at all common here but despite the risks my horse/s will always be provided with as natural life as modern living affords them. My boy lives out year round in a herd of 10 and is very settled for it.

 

[ycbm]

same breed/height too so they look so sweet.

People remark on the similarity between Charlie and his buddy too

 

[Birker2020]

Horse is liveried over 2hr from me in order for him to live out 24/7 in company and on suitable grazing. He could be 40min from me if I didn't mind him being on individual turnout, in rye fields and with little turnout in the winter. The commute is the sacrifice I take to ensure his happiness.

If the only suitable yard in my vicinity was individual turnout, I wouldn't have bought a horse.

Well I already had bought a horse when I moved to my yard and she was out in a herd but when she got seriously kicked I moved to individual turnout.

Incidentally my paddock is certainly not postage stamped size lol. It's around 120m x 35m which is more than enough space. Its ex dairy too so very good grazing and I had to be very careful with Bails as she was colic prone so it had to be strip grazed for at least 5 months of the year.

My horses (Lari after Bailey died) went out for approx 100 hours per week in the summer and around 55-60 hrs in the winter.

I wouldn't move somewhere with a postage stamped paddock. But it's hardly the case in my situation. I love my paddock, took great care of it and hope I can have it again for my next horse.

 

[Skib]

The horse I ride is the only mare on the yard. She has her own field and is turned out on her own every night. But she has two or three geldings in sight in other fields. Her box is also isolated from the other horses. Isolation doesnt appear to trouble her. I hack her solo and when we meet other horses returning to the yard she makes no effort to join them or follow them.

 

[stormox]

It can be very difficult for an owner who wants to get their horse in from a herd to open a gate wide enough to get their horse in safely and stop others barging through.
If an owner or a horse got kicked, the yard owner would be blamed, so you can't blame them for providing safe individual turnout.

 

[sbloom]

Sorry, not read whole thread but with enrichment herd turnout shouldn't lead to a high injury rate, they get into trouble when they're bored. Another slant, the US has a lot of individual turnout, some research was done maybe 29 years ago iirc, finding that turnout injuries related to the proportion of fencing to turnout area, basically the smaller the field the higher the injury rate.

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

'Perfect mare in every wait, saint good for children etc etc' - threatening to rear in the ring

 

[ycbm]

Sorry, not read whole thread but with enrichment herd turnout shouldn't lead to a high injury rate, they get into trouble when they're bored. Another slant, the US has a lot of individual turnout, some research was done maybe 29 years ago iirc, finding that turnout injuries related to the proportion of fencing to turnout area, basically the smaller the field the higher the injury rate.

I've had two or three horses in 10 acres deep in mixed herbs and grasses and still had them kick each other. It depends on the mix of horses and if you've got a kicker you've got a kicker . At least at home I had nobody else to blame, but that situation in livery is hard to cope with. I sought out herd turnout in a big field when I thought it would save Ludo's soundness. He got injured early on. I wouldn't allow Charlie to go into herd turnout in livery until he retires.
.

 

[Sossigpoker]

Also , individual turn out doesn't have to mean postage stamp size paddocks. At my yard we've got at least 1.5 acres per horse - I currently have about 3 acres for mine. Although I of course reduce the size to limit his grass intake (we have loads !). I don't like little square paddocks either.

 

[Sanversera]

To add to my first post on this thread, my old mare (who is no longer with us) was the happiest she had ever been on individual turnout with neighbours either side.

She had herd turnout for about 18 years but she had serious resource guarding problems and would get in a lot of fights. As she got older she would viciously attack others. She was much happier (and others safer) when she didn't think she had to fight for food. She had grass etc so wasn't actually starving! It really isn't a one size fits all.

Great post, I have a cob who is similar he's thriving now he's in his own paddock.

 

[Sanversera]

Also , individual turn out doesn't have to mean postage stamp size paddocks. At my yard we've got at least 1.5 acres per horse - I currently have about 3 acres for mine. Although I of course reduce the size to limit his grass intake (we have loads !). I don't like little square paddocks either.

Totally agree

 

[paddy555]

Sorry, not read whole thread but with enrichment herd turnout shouldn't lead to a high injury rate, they get into trouble when they're bored.

I disagree. The problem is that we don't have horses in herds. (or at least most people don't) They have horses in groups, humans have chosen the members of that group and the horses with their individual personalities and traits are supposed to get on with that and with each other.

Sometimes if they are nice sociable horses they do, sometimes if they have lived together for a long time they do. Then just as the group, with it's herd leader, becomes a balanced happy little group one of it's members, possibly the leader, is sold and someone else moves in.
Or the leader is removed to spend a couple of days at a show and the group then has a different make up.

They are herd animals with a heir-achy that we continually mess with. Nothing to do with boredom.

You could almost liken it to their owners. All on the same livery yard, all humans with the same interest and there is absolutely no bitching, everyone gets on very happily

My fields are small, around 2 acres because fields in this area have been historically small. I have 2 pairs, one trio and one sole (for medical reasons)
All is quiet and calm, they have their mates, someone to move around with and groom. For me that works and I can understand someone not wanting to turn out in a group where they can foresee injuries.
I hate postage stamp square paddocks, they can be avoided with some imagination. However far worse to me is long periods of stabling than group turnout.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I'm sure that if we went to a zoo and saw a herd of zebra, or giraffe, or okapi, each in a tiny individual paddock without shelter, we would all be outraged, there would be petitions started, MPs written to, calls for them all to be returned to the wild etc but because people want to ride horses, some owners seem to think that it is fine to keep horses in that kind of situation.

My opinion is that if you want to ride something that will be in exactly the same state when you see it as the last time you saw it, you should get a bike.

There are a *very* few horses who do better kept individually, for specific reasons but they are herd animals and the vast majority should be kept as such.

 

[sbloom]

I don't think shelter is enough, enrichment needs to go further.

 

[Lexi 123]

Sorry, not read whole thread but with enrichment herd turnout shouldn't lead to a high injury rate, they get into trouble when they're bored. Another slant, the US has a lot of individual turnout, some research was done maybe 29 years ago iirc, finding that turnout injuries related to the proportion of fencing to turnout area, basically the smaller the field the higher the injury rate.

Unfortunately it’s does due to livery yards consistently changing . Horses get sold on people move livery yards and new horses go onto the yard. It changes the dominance of the herd that causes the issues which leds to fights . A lot of livery yard aren’t ran right so unsuitable horses are put in these yards. People can’t also see their horse issues and is aggressive so wouldn’t fix it. For example Warmblood can be so unpredictable that a lot of them can’t be mixed with other horses due to their breeding and previous history.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I used to be on a yard where they were all out together. Never again. It was carnage in the winter by the gate. Horses getting stressed as individual owners arrived at different times. The dangerous rude bolshy types who would hog the entrance. There were arguments with hay. Some wanted hay in fields. Some didn’t. Some needed soaked hay. Some guarded it all. Owners who never poo picked. Then when an owner left, another new horse was thrown in and it was flipping dangerous. The pecking order had to be re established.

But that is about management, not about individual vs herd turnout.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

Also , individual turn out doesn't have to mean postage stamp size paddocks. At my yard we've got at least 1.5 acres per horse - I currently have about 3 acres for mine. Although I of course reduce the size to limit his grass intake (we have loads !). I don't like little square paddocks either.

1.5 acres per horse is a postage stamp imho, although not as small as some paddocks that I see around here.

 

[Tiddlypom]

1.5 acres per horse is IIRC the recommended amount of grazing?

My 3 spend late spring (just before or after Badminton) to late autumn on about an acre. Lots of shelter, both natural from a hawthorn hedges and an oak tree, plus from a choice of 2 field shelters, and a very different view from either side. Plenty of room to move around, and since I set it up as an equicentral track they are constantly moving from one side of the grazing to the other through the single open gateway.

They do get strip grazed from late autumn out into the rest of the two paddocks.

This could also be a good set up for a single horse.



It's the tiny usually fully electric fenced and shelterless mini turnout areas that are not much bigger than a dressage area that are the real welfare issue.

 

[stormox]

But that is about management, not about individual vs herd turnout.

But if each horse needs separate management it can't be managed in a herd situation.

Horses removed and put back daily for riding, grooming, shows etc.
Clueless people trying to catch their horse with an apple getting mugged
Horses that bully or are bullied, kicking occurring.
13hh ponies and 17hh heavies mixed.
Fly masks and rugs getting ripped in play.
A herd like would happen on the prairie just wouldn't be possible with a yard of ridden horses.

 

[Sossigpoker]

1.5 acres per horse is a postage stamp imho, although not as small as some paddocks that I see around here.

It's what BHS recommends per horse and you see horses on maybe 1/3 acre areas regularly

 

[Pearlsasinger]

It's what BHS recommends per horse and you see horses on maybe 1/3 acre areas regularly

My understanding is that the 1st horse should have 2 acres with 1 acre for every additional horse

 

[Sossigpoker]

My understanding is that the 1st horse should have 2 acres with 1 acre for every additional horse

Well I haven't measured my paddocks but they all have plenty of room to run around so I think they're OK.