The sacked horse hitting ex teacher is going to court

[honetpot]

Genuine question: do we think that if she is successfully prosecuted and handed a decent fine that it will send shock waves and start the ball rolling of changing attitudes regarding the casual use of violence against horses?

I'm thinking about what some posters have said above about worse being seen at shows.

We live in a surveillance society. Everyone has a video recorder in their pocket. It would be nice for those who mistreat horses at shows to have it in the back of their minds that any one could film their behaviour and either pass it to the RSPCA or post it on social media.

(To be clear I'm not talking about monsters like Evans. He should be in prison as far as I'm concerned).

I suppose what I'm getting at is that while it might be true that this woman is bearing the brunt of our collective anger at every day aggression and violence meted out to horses, might a successful prosecution help focus the minds of the every day bullies?

And equally, might it embolden the rest of us to actually do something if we witness this behaviour if we have a stronger sense that a complaint will be taken seriously?

In my job we have a system of incident reporting, which can be anything from a blocked fire escape to a drug error, someone has to review and action if needed for every one. It's a good idea, but over time if you want to make someone leave, you keep sending these reports, so it's escalated. Other people probably make the same errors and nothing is done. Do you really want a society where everyone monitors your actions with a view to reporting you, and I have worked in places where bad behaviour is tolerated because they make people leave.
It's like rapping, polling or any other training method that involves cohesion, it goes on behind closed doors, and only the people who are within that circle are aware of what is going on.
I think we have to be very careful what we wish for, because you could edit a lot of things that go on in horse handling that could be edited to look bad. I am all for education and horse welfare, but a teenager losing their temper with their pony, it happens, should it mean they end being reported?

 

[milliepops]

What happens at shows is often far from small fry sadly.I saw a child nearly knocked off her feet by her father for making a mistake in the ring.Nothing was said.Look at Patrick Kittel (famous dressage rider and now on international horse committees) and the blue tongue.Just to give you a flavour.

but the everyday grinding misery of a horse that is owned and handled by someone with no horsemanship skills whatsoever is cumulatively much greater than that. which is what i'm getting at. the number of horses kept across the country is massive, the number where you see a horrid spectacle at a show is far fewer.
probably we all look at ourselves and think oh it doesn't apply to me, very easy to point the finger elsewhere and ignore what's under your nose on a daily basis :/

 

[ycbm]

So what if someone who had done this to a horse lost her rag and gave a child a kick to the chest followed by 4 slaps around the face.

She didn't.

Would this be okay in your eyes?

I honestly don't think I've ever seen a more stupid/offensive question raised on this forum.

 

[ycbm]

! Ive never ever got that angry that I would ever punch an animal! It truly worries me how many people seem to think this is acceptable or that she just needs a little slap on the hand.

Nobody on this forum has said it is acceptable and she has already received far more than a slap on the hand.
.

 

[eahotson]

In my job we have a system of incident reporting, which can be anything from a blocked fire escape to a drug error, someone has to review and action if needed for every one. It's a good idea, but over time if you want to make someone leave, you keep sending these reports, so it's escalated. Other people probably make the same errors and nothing is done. Do you really want a society where everyone monitors your actions with a view to reporting you, and I have worked in places where bad behaviour is tolerated because they make people leave.
It's like rapping, polling or any other training method that involves cohesion, it goes on behind closed doors, and only the people who are within that circle are aware of what is going on.
I think we have to be very careful what we wish for, because you could edit a lot of things that go on in horse handling that could be edited to look bad. I am all for education and horse welfare, but a teenager losing their temper with their pony, it happens, should it mean they end being reported?

Its all balance really.Some of the worst abuse in competition is at the higher end I think and No we don't want to become a police state.Neither do we want over reactions to human error such as this case but animal welfare is all too often compromised.If you reported to the stewards at a show something you thought was wrong the answer was always "It didn't happen" "You misunderstood" or some such.Now people film it and put it on social media because it is the only way to get it out there.If they could be sure that governing bodies and stewards would see fair play they may be less tempted to do that.

 

[milliepops]

She didn't.




I honestly don't think I've ever seen a more stupid/offensive question raised on this forum.

yeah it's something of a massive leap to think you'd raise a hand to a child just because you would slap a horse.

i know we went over it on the other thread. People can behave entirely different in different situations without it requiring the smallest bit of effort. with my friends i eff and jeff, talking to the big cheeses at work brings out a professional vocab that doesn't get used anywhere else. i have no patience with children either but internal decency, societal norms and general behavioural inhibitions would always stop me from hitting one!! you just switch one thing on and another thing off, we are all gear changing all day every day. to suggest that behaviour in one scenario would mean a person would be like that in another is pretty shortsighted.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

"I can confirm that Sarah Moulds’ employment with the Trust has been terminated, "said Paul Maddox, chief operating officer of the Trust.

@Birker2020

This direct quote does NOT say that Sarah Moulds was dismissed from her role as a teacher. The fact that various publications have extrapolated that is one of the things that those who can think critically will have picked up.

I did not say that you had claimed that you have inside info, I said that you write as if you have - there is a subtle difference.

I can assure you that I have not just been the minute taker in meetings to decide the future employment fate of teachers and other school staff but have been an active participant, from different perspectives, after having been given the appropriate training, which is why I can speak authoritatively on the subject.


And that is my last word on the subject of SM's employment.

 

[DabDab]

This isn't true DD, sorry. The RSPCA are in Magistrate's courts week after week with cases of mistreated animals. They just don't make it any further than the local news.

I've seen privately prosecuted cases brought by the RSPCA, just in my local area, of a starved horse, keeping a horse when banned, failing to control a vicious dog and starving a dog.

It's absolutely wrong that the RSPCA are the de facto animal police, but they are still that, I believe.

Sorry, I should have been clear, I was responding to someone talking about the frequency of RSPCA cases brought against someone striking and animal.

 

[Upthecreek]

I think we have to be very careful what we wish for, because you could edit a lot of things that go on in horse handling that could be edited to look bad. I am all for education and horse welfare, but a teenager losing their temper with their pony, it happens, should it mean they end being reported?

It depends what the teenager does to the pony as a result of losing their temper. I was stewarding at the weekend and a girl got eliminated. As she was leaving the arena she booted the horse in the ribs, got off and roughly yanked the reins over his head whilst shouting he was a f*cking tw*t. I went and spoke to her and told her in front of her mother that I could see she was upset and frustrated but her behaviour was unacceptable and we would not want to see it happen again at future events. We don’t always need to report people, but I believe we should be prepared to call out bad behaviour if we see it.

 

[DabDab]

So is it not time to start changing that?

Well yes ?. I've even given some ideas on previous responses

I don't believe making this woman a sacrificial goat will change anything

 

[eahotson]

but the everyday grinding misery of a horse that is owned and handled by someone with no horsemanship skills whatsoever is cumulatively much greater than that. which is what i'm getting at. the number of horses kept across the country is massive, the number where you see a horrid spectacle at a show is far fewer.
probably we all look at ourselves and think oh it doesn't apply to me, very easy to point the finger elsewhere and ignore what's under your nose on a daily basis :/

It's all cruelty but while some of it is ignorance at the level I am talking about,it isn't.

 

[eahotson]

It depends what the teenager does to the pony as a result of losing their temper. I was stewarding at the weekend and a girl got eliminated. As she was leaving the arena she booted the horse in the ribs, got off and roughly yanked the reins over his head whilst shouting he was a f*cking tw*t. I went and spoke to her and told her in front of her mother that I could see she was upset and frustrated but her behaviour was unacceptable and we would not want to see it happen again at future events. We don’t always need to report people, but I believe we should be prepared to call out bad behaviour if we see it.

Well done.

 

[Birker2020]

I honestly don't think I've ever seen a more stupid/offensive question raised on this forum.

Oh for goodness sake YCBM. You know damn well what point I was trying to convey.

 

[windand rain]

Wonder what a video of me feeding 5 ponies in a field would look like. Flailing arms to get each one to the right bucket and the odd one throwing its head up as if it had been hit. I don't hit but don't worry too much if they walk into a bump

 

[Birker2020]

Wonder what a video of me feeding 5 ponies in a field would look like. Flailing arms to get each one to the right bucket and the odd one throwing its head up as if it had been hit. I don't hit but don't worry too much if they walk into a bump

a) its not relevant
b) its not a prolonged attack on a single animal
c) you aren't a teacher

 

[milliepops]

but the rspca aren't taking up this case because she's a teacher, are they? we've moved on from that i thought, to a hypothetical approach to improving animal welfare via randoms filming each other and making complaints.

 

[BeansNsausages]

a) its not relevant
b) its not a prolonged attack on a single animal
c) you aren't a teacher

D) Why are you so blunt and unnecessarily rude?

 

[southerncomfort]

I agree that we don't want a society where we're all waiting for everybody else to slip up so we can make an example of them. This is why I don't do twitter and their vile witch hunts and 'cancelling' of people.

However, I'm confident I could tell the difference between someone smacking a horse because its stood on their foot or has just taken a chunk out of them and someone who has lost control of themselves. We know if we see someone taking a horse behind the lorry and giving it a beating because it didn't jump well or won't load is very, very wrong.

Their seems to be a reticence to report incidents because their is a belief that nothing will be done, or that their might be some comeback on them for reporting it.

Do I feel comfortable with people like CP setting himself up as a judge in these situations? Not overly.

I do feel like something needs to happen, as the people who bully horses often don't even try and hide their behavior because they don't fear any consequences.

It's a difficult one for sure.

Their is a clear risk in prosecuting in that if she's cleared abusers won't feel any fear at all.

I'm not sure what the answer is.

 

[windand rain]

but the rspca aren't taking up this case because she's a teacher, are they? we've moved on from that i thought, to a hypothetical approach to improving animal welfare via randoms filming each other and making complaints.

This is the point of my post I have never abused an animal in my life but someone from a distance filming me waving the various ponies away could well have said I was hitting them as they do mill around and chuck their heads up. Again I repeat She shouldn't have done what she did. Second point is how do you know what I do now retired, I used to teach in educational establishments and riding kids was a first responder for which I have advanced dbs checks
There goes all of us by the grace of your God

 

[Birker2020]

D) Why are you so blunt and unnecessarily rude?

If you have read it like that then I apologise, no rudeness intended 110%.

But I do keep labouring the same point that nobody seems to grasp.

I work in construction, so if I hit my horse the way that woman did then the only thing that it would affect is that I might lose my spot on my livery yard and if my boss found out he might not like it (I doubt he'd give diddly squat tbh). I wouldn't kick my horse and I've never punched a horse either, I have smacked my horse both with my hand and my whip. But I don't work with children or vulnerable adults so if I lose my temper the only thing that it can do is show people how short tempered I am and that I should learn more appropriate skills to deal with the anger issues

If I worked as a school teacher or sports coach for example the repercussions would be different and it does matter 100%.

So when so many people put the same thing on here "I've hit my horse does that mean I should lose my job?" (and they work in an office) or "I've walloped my horse in the past" (and they work as a milkman) its really, really, really not relevant to this case.

 

[southerncomfort]

but the rspca aren't taking up this case because she's a teacher, are they? we've moved on from that i thought, to a hypothetical approach to improving animal welfare via randoms filming each other and making complaints.

I'm not sure that's fair MP.

I've taken on board your points and replied politely.

I was never talking about everyone at the yard carrying out surveillance on each other. I was referring to the serial offenders at shows etc and whether people would be more likely to complain.

I was raising a point for discussion not expressing an opinion.

 

[windand rain]

But it is the animal has still endured that anger whether you are a teacher or a labourer

 

[Gallop_Away]

I am not a teacher, but I work in the legal profession and a lot of my work involves working with vulnerable elderly people.
I was "babysitting" my friend's youngster over Christmas while they were visiting family. One night youngster pinned me to the gate in the field and was basically trying to walk over the top of me. Shouting at her to get back didn't work, and pushing her away with my hands wasn't working, so I gave her a swift boot to the chest. Was it pleasant, no, would I do it again if the situation called for it? Definitely.
Now do I deserve to loose my job over this? Afterall I kicked a horse? I could do the same to someone's gran?

 

[milliepops]

But it is the animal has still endured that anger whether you are a teacher or a labourer

yeah and this post being about the RSPCA taking her to court means that anyone who did the same as her could face the same - they might get to keep their job after that or they might not.

 

[tristar]

I am not a teacher, but I work in the legal profession and a lot of my work involves working with vulnerable elderly people.
I was "babysitting" my friend's youngster over Christmas while they were visiting family. One night youngster pinned me to the gate in the field and was basically trying to walk over the top of me. Shouting at her to get back didn't work, and pushing her away with my hands wasn't working, so I gave her a swift boot to the chest. Was it pleasant, no, would I do it again if the situation called for it? Definitely.
Now do I deserve to loose my job over this? Afterall I kicked a horse? I could do the same to someone's gran?

depends what the gran was doing?

 

[Birker2020]

But it is the animal has still endured that anger whether you are a teacher or a labourer

Yes of course it is. But that wasn't what the post was about. The post was directed at the people who think its unfair she lost her job, or that it was an over reaction. And it certainly wasn't.

As for the RSPCA involvement I was surprised to learn they were taking her to court and did wonder why myself but as we are not party to knowing the details its hard to know.

 

[milliepops]

I'm not sure that's fair MP.

I've taken on board your points and replied politely.

I was never talking about everyone at the yard carrying out surveillance on each other. I was referring to the serial offenders at shows etc and whether people would be more likely to complain.

I was raising a point for discussion not expressing an opinion.

and i was responding to Birker telling another poster that her example was irrelevant as she wasn't a teacher. but i don't think the RSPCA are particularly fussed that the woman in question is a teacher, I'd assume they'd do the same if a shop worker was filmed doing the same thing.

OK it was an offhand comment about filming. but i'm not sure that behaviour at shows is particularly different to behaviour out hacking or at home on the yard or indeed hunting. if people can't hold their tempers in public at a show then I'd hazard that it will be worse at home. Hence the idea of surveillance being confined to shows seems a bit limited? Further, lots of people who mistreat horses never even go to shows. I am sure we all want to see better behaviour at shows but I can't imagine how you could have private citizens driving this rather than stewards or officials. what if someone's sour-grapes ex partner turned up trying to cause trouble for them and thought, oh i'll just film them at a show and edit it all to make them look like a terrible person?

I understand your motivation i think, and I would agree with that, we all want to improve things, but we can't have a frying pan/fire situ :/

 

[Birker2020]

I am not a teacher, but I work in the legal profession and a lot of my work involves working with vulnerable elderly people.
I was "babysitting" my friend's youngster over Christmas while they were visiting family. One night youngster pinned me to the gate in the field and was basically trying to walk over the top of me. Shouting at her to get back didn't work, and pushing her away with my hands wasn't working, so I gave her a swift boot to the chest. Was it pleasant, no, would I do it again if the situation called for it? Definitely.
Now do I deserve to loose my job over this? Afterall I kicked a horse? I could do the same to someone's gran?

Its not the same thing at all.

You reacted in the way you did as you were under threat by the horse that could have caused you untold damage. The vet told me to stick a biro in my youngsters ribs (horse) when he tried to pin me against the wall. Again under imminent danger. Anyone who has had a horse stand on their foot knows how pointless it is trying to push against the weight of a horse. A sharp jab with your thumb to the shoulder or flank and they will get off you a lot quicker.

 

[Gallop_Away]

Its not the same thing at all.

You reacted in the way you did as you were under threat by the horse that could have caused you untold damage. The vet told me to stick a biro in my youngsters ribs (horse) when he tried to pin me against the wall. Again under imminent danger. Anyone who has had a horse stand on their foot knows how pointless it is trying to push against the weight of a horse. A sharp jab with your thumb to the shoulder or flank and they will get off you a lot quicker.

But I still reacted in a "violent" manner towards a horse. If someone had filmed me and posted the clip on social media it may very well have had the same reaction.
Just for the record I don't make a point of booting nanas as unruly as they can get on times.....

 

[Birker2020]

But I still reacted in a "violent" manner towards a horse. If someone had filmed me and posted the clip on social media it may very well have had the same reaction.
Just for the record I don't make a point of booting nanas as unruly as they can get on times.....

Well in my eyes there's a huge difference but still.