The sacked horse hitting ex teacher is going to court

[milliepops]

its a complicated thing. Gallop Away could have been said to cause that horse suffering by kicking it - OK in the situation where you are in personal danger you decide as the puny human that your life is more important than the horse getting kicked so you do it (probably most of us would do something similar when threatened) But the horse feels the same kick that someone else might administer in temper.

How do you identify the threshold between when someone was acting in self defense (from a horse that only acts and doesn't have calculated motivations and - particularly with a youngster, is not capable of much in the way of thinking about what it does to people) and when someone was just cross? it might be both at once. if relying on a snip of video evidence it's particularly difficult to be black and white about what is and isn't OK.

Ugh. for me it all boils down to we shouldn't ride horses really. There is no way to assure ourselves collectively that they will never suffer. The longer i have nothing to ride the more i feel like i don't ever want to do it again

 

[Sandstone1]

We pay to watch things like that and people frequently win big prizes doing just that.

Then its time it changed is it not?

 

[Sandstone1]

I do not dispute this woman has had a hard time on social media, thats the way life is now though like it or not. People can no longer get away with stuff like this because of mobile phone cameras and social media. If thats right or wrong is a whole other discussion but like it or not its the way life is now.

 

[FestiveG]

I do not dispute this woman has had a hard time on social media, thats the way life is now though like it or not. People can no longer get away with stuff like this because of mobile phone cameras and social media. If thats right or wrong is a whole other discussion but like it or not its the way life is now.

No, it is this discussion and some of us still believe in the rule of actual law, rather than mob rule and the law of the loudest voices.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Wonder what a video of me feeding 5 ponies in a field would look like. Flailing arms to get each one to the right bucket and the odd one throwing its head up as if it had been hit. I don't hit but don't worry too much if they walk into a bump

I have to say that feeding time at yours sounds rather alarming if flailing arms and the occasional bump are needed on a regular basis .

Isn't there a safer way (safer for you and for them) of feeding them all?

You couldn't pay me enough to take on feeding 5 horses loose in a field unless the ground rules were very firmly established so that each horse calmly waited for its turn.

 

[paddy555]

If you have read it like that then I apologise, no rudeness intended 110%.

But I do keep labouring the same point that nobody seems to grasp.

I work in construction, so if I hit my horse the way that woman did then the only thing that it would affect is that I might lose my spot on my livery yard and if my boss found out he might not like it (I doubt he'd give diddly squat tbh). I wouldn't kick my horse and I've never punched a horse either, I have smacked my horse both with my hand and my whip. But I don't work with children or vulnerable adults so if I lose my temper the only thing that it can do is show people how short tempered I am and that I should learn more appropriate skills to deal with the anger issues

If I worked as a school teacher or sports coach for example the repercussions would be different and it does matter 100%.

So when so many people put the same thing on here "I've hit my horse does that mean I should lose my job?" (and they work in an office) or "I've walloped my horse in the past" (and they work as a milkman) its really, really, really not relevant to this case.

her occupation has no relevance at all.

You've smacked your horse with your hand and whip. You work in construction. What's to stop you what's to stop you dropping something on a disagreeable fellow worker from a height. Nothing. Lots of dangerous things on building sites that could people at risk if you lost your temper again.

I doubt you would and equally her as well.

 

[Fellewell]

Sorry I just quickly googled the article and didn't read the content. It read very differently in the local rag.

Do you mean The Echo?

A more recent quote printed in The Daily Echo from Cllr Edward Heron; Leader of New Forest District Council: "It's sad that Chris Packham sometimes appears unwilling to allow facts and the opinion of genuine experts get in the way of his own sensationalist self-promotion. There are many threats to the Forest but the commoners and their livestock isn't one of them".

 

[honetpot]

It depends what the teenager does to the pony as a result of losing their temper. I was stewarding at the weekend and a girl got eliminated. As she was leaving the arena she booted the horse in the ribs, got off and roughly yanked the reins over his head whilst shouting he was a f*cking tw*t. I went and spoke to her and told her in front of her mother that I could see she was upset and frustrated but her behaviour was unacceptable and we would not want to see it happen again at future events. We don’t always need to report people, but I believe we should be prepared to call out bad behaviour if we see it.

I agree, but they were not outed on social media, and had their name plastered all over. As it's in a public place, it could have been filmed. I agree stewards ought to take more of a hand, but most are not trained, most of the time they are giving their time for free, and then when they get abuse, or the show's organiser gets abuse on social media it all gets out of hand.
I have stewarded at large affiliated shows where there is comprehensive H&S, and the ,some bodies back field sort, where often apart from whips,dogs, poo and rubbish, there is not a lot mentioned, looking for trouble is the last thing they want. It's been hard enough to get a system that tries to stop people doping horses in the ring, plus the whole mess of height certificates.

 

[Birker2020]

her occupation has no relevance at all.

You've smacked your horse with your hand and whip. You work in construction. What's to stop you what's to stop you dropping something on a disagreeable fellow worker from a height. Nothing. Lots of dangerous things on building sites that could people at risk if you lost your temper again.

I doubt you would and equally her as well.

Except I'm a document controller so wouldn't be able to access site??
And construction workers don't have children or vulnerable adults working under them as a rule.
So how can I phrase this so I don't offend you (like I apparently did YCBM) - would you be happy for someone like the person in question to look after your young children given that she loses her temper so easily?

 

[milliepops]

we don't KNOW she loses her temper easily, though.
we only know that she hit that horse on that day.

 

[Upthecreek]

I agree, but they were not outed on social media, and had their name plastered all over. As it's in a public place, it could have been filmed. I agree stewards ought to take more of a hand, but most are not trained, most of the time they are giving their time for free, and then when they get abuse, or the show's organiser gets abuse on social media it all gets out of hand.
I have stewarded at large affiliated shows where there is comprehensive H&S, and the ,some bodies back field sort, where often apart from whips,dogs, poo and rubbish, there is not a lot mentioned, looking for trouble is the last thing they want. It's been hard enough to get a system that tries to stop people doping horses in the ring, plus the whole mess of height certificates.

One of the things I said to the girl was that her behaviour could have been filmed and shared on social media and I asked her how she would feel about that. She said she would feel embarrassed and ashamed of herself. Who knows, maybe it will remind her to think about her conduct in future, maybe it won’t.

 

[Xmasha]

Except I'm a document controller so wouldn't be able to access site??
And construction workers don't have children or vulnerable adults working under them as a rule.
So how can I phrase this so I don't offend you (like I apparently did YCBM) - would you be happy for someone like the person in question to look after your young children given that she loses her temper so easily?

in this day and age, i would expect that if she had lost her temper with the children it would have been already been picked up. When my children where at primary school they loved to come home and talk about the day, especially if someone had been naughty or had been told off.
I really dont like this assumption that because of this one incident she must have anger issues. Weve all done things we are not proud of.
Unless you know the person in question of course ?

 

[eahotson]

I'm not sure that's fair MP.

I've taken on board your points and replied politely.

I was never talking about everyone at the yard carrying out surveillance on each other. I was referring to the serial offenders at shows etc and whether people would be more likely to complain.

I was raising a point for discussion not expressing an opinion.

Well said.

 

[Shilasdair]

If you have read it like that then I apologise, no rudeness intended 110%.

But I do keep labouring the same point that nobody seems to grasp.

I work in construction, so if I hit my horse the way that woman did then the only thing that it would affect is that I might lose my spot on my livery yard and if my boss found out he might not like it (I doubt he'd give diddly squat tbh). I wouldn't kick my horse and I've never punched a horse either, I have smacked my horse both with my hand and my whip. But I don't work with children or vulnerable adults so if I lose my temper the only thing that it can do is show people how short tempered I am and that I should learn more appropriate skills to deal with the anger issues

If I worked as a school teacher or sports coach for example the repercussions would be different and it does matter 100%.

So when so many people put the same thing on here "I've hit my horse does that mean I should lose my job?" (and they work in an office) or "I've walloped my horse in the past" (and they work as a milkman) its really, really, really not relevant to this case.

It's not that no-one 'grasps your point' - it's that few of us agree with you.
And I don't know why you think it's fine for you to abuse your horse with your hand and whip (how the RSPCA would view it) but are baying for the teacher's blood at the same time?
Or do you live in some special gated community where you can't access any children ever, so they are all safe from your violent urges?
Someone's job is completely irrelevant to offences under the Animal Welfare laws.

 

[windand rain]

I have to say that feeding time at yours sounds rather alarming if flailing arms and the occasional bump are needed on a regular basis .

Isn't there a safer way (safer for you and for them) of feeding them all?


You couldn't pay me enough to take on feeding 5 horses loose in a field unless the ground rules were very firmly established so that each horse calmly waited for its turn.

It's fun I like my space they are young and like to be close I keep them at arms length so am as safe as houses. They're very good just sounds alarming. The odd bump is when they get too close it reminds them to give me space. After all I am only little they need to remember I am there. Makes me look bigger that's all. Manners in everything have to be learned

 

[paddy555]

Except I'm a document controller so wouldn't be able to access site??
And construction workers don't have children or vulnerable adults working under them as a rule.
So how can I phrase this so I don't offend you (like I apparently did YCBM) - would you be happy for someone like the person in question to look after your young children given that she loses her temper so easily?

not only would I be happy I would think she is probably the safest teacher in the country. She will be aware that people have criticised if she would hit kids and that her every move near them would be watched and under scrutiny.

 

[Sandstone1]

No, it is this discussion and some of us still believe in the rule of actual law, rather than mob rule and the law of the loudest voices.

Well as the title of the thread is about the teacher going to court, I rather thought that was the discussion.

 

[FestiveG]

Well as the title of the thread is about the teacher going to court, I rather thought that was the discussion.

Did you not read the rest of the thread? I thought you had done..

 

[Tiddlypom]

No, it is this discussion and some of us still believe in the rule of actual law, rather than mob rule and the law of the loudest voices.

But now the RSPCA has decided to take this case to court, it is going to be tried under the actual law, not by mob rule and the loudest voices ?‍. She might be found not guilty.

I'm another who thinks that the RSPCA were going to be damned by the opposing factions whatever they did.

Do the RSPCA get everything right? No, of course they don't. But I have had a fair few dealings with them when fostering ponies from them, and the staff on the ground that I've worked with have been excellent. These hard working foot soldiers do not deserve all this vitriolic opprobrium being poured over them.

 

[FestiveG]

But now the RSPCA has decided to take this case to court, it is going to be tried under the actual law, not by mob rule and the loudest voices ?‍. She might be found not guilty.

I'm another who thinks that the RSPCA were going to be damned by the opposing factions whatever they did.

Do the RSPCA get everything right? No, of course they don't. But I have had a fair few dealings with them when fostering ponies from them, and the staff on the ground that I've worked with have been excellent. These hard working foot soldiers do not deserve all this vitriolic opprobrium being poured over them.

The RSPCA only ever seem to prosecute against "soft" targets. I doubt that the general public would have remembered the case to expressan opinion. I do accept that the sabs who videod the incident have probably been lobbying, along with packham, for the charity to take this prosecution. The sooner the charity pass this role on to the CPS the better.

 

[ycbm]

But now the RSPCA has decided to take this case to court, it is going to be tried under the actual law, not by mob rule and the loudest voices ?‍. She might be found not guilty.

She has already been tried, found guilty and sentenced by mob rule.

This criminal prosecution is in addition to that.

I don't believe that the RSPCA would have chosen to prosecute this case without the social media storm.
.

 

[Sandstone1]

Did you not read the rest of the thread? I thought you had done..

Yes I have read it. It does not change the fact that its about the Rspca taking her to court. Social media has played a part in it there is no doubt about that. This is the world we live in now.

 

[FestiveG]

Yes I have read it. It does not change the fact that its about the Rspca taking her to court. Social media has played a part in it there is no doubt about that. This is the world we live in now.

The title of the thread is hardly neutral, yet another instance of the "mob" deciding the facts, from " evidence " gleaned from Internet posts from sources with an agenda.

 

[Sandstone1]

The title of the thread is hardly neutral, yet another instance of the "mob" deciding the facts, from " evidence " gleaned from Internet posts from sources with an agenda.

Well, like it or not there is evidence of what happened. The fact is she did hit the pony. The rest will be up to the court to decide.

 

[FestiveG]

Well, like it or not there is evidence of what happened. The fact is she did hit the pony. The rest will be up to the court to decide.

It will not be up to the court to decide if she was " sacked". The fact that she is/ was a teacher is not relevant, either to the allegations or to the possible prosecution, but it's paraded on here again. We do not know if it was raw footage that we saw, or edited, a court should be able to find that out. You do not know for a fact that she hit the pony, unless you were there yourself.

 

[smolmaus]

It will not be up to the court to decide if she was " sacked". The fact that she is/ was a teacher is not relevant, either to the allegations or to the possible prosecution, but it's paraded on here again. We do not know if it was raw footage that we saw, or edited, a court should be able to find that out. You do not know for a fact that she hit the pony, unless you were there yourself.

Did the sabs deepfake some random woman and it was so convincing that she herself believed she hit her horse and never denied doing it?

New heights!!

 

[FestiveG]

Did the sabs deepfake some random woman and it was so convincing that she herself believed she hit her horse and never denied doing it?

New heights!!

Now that is a ridiculous response, especially when discussing possible legal actions. There is a process, even if the mob don't like that fact. You( one) cannot categorically state a *thing* happened if you ( one) did not see it, or it has not been tested to a standard of proof.

 

[FestiveG]

Did the sabs deepfake some random woman and it was so convincing that she herself believed she hit her horse and never denied doing it?

New heights!!

Also, do you recall that initially a totally different woman was named, and the mob were out for her job and blood?

 

[Sandstone1]

Its just easier to put some people on UI.

 

[TPO]

???

I made the title using all the key terms so that the thread was findable because I couldn't find the original thread, only the much shorter second one.

The last I'd read on the original thread it was said/implied that she had been let go (sacked) from her job. Admittedly I didn't even begin to verify that, no idea how I would, and I got bored of the thread because it was way off topic arguing about minute taking...

So if there's an issue with the title that's on me not @Sandstone1