Thoughts on BD bringing in 20% rider weight guidance?

I think it’s a good thing even if it just raises awareness, gets people talking about it and pricks the conscience of those that maybe in denial of being too heavy for their mounts.
I’m struggling with my weight atm and having read this thread did the calculations based on my horses ideal weight. Adding 2.5st for tack I’m within the 20% but nearer that than 15%. I have also noticed that I’ve lost rider fitness and was finding downward transitions a challenge! Currently horse is out of action and now instead of comfort eating and drowning my sorrows, I’ll get back onto my healthy diet and core exercises so hopefully I’ll be in better shape when he comes back into work ??
 
Goldie's mum said:
Obesity and weight are not the same thing at all. An obese person who looks very fat in the advert you describe could be fine to ride if they are short enough that their weight suits their horse.
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Yes I realise that, I’m just talking generically. But realistically, a person of a larger body size is likely to be heavier in weight.
But that aside, I’m not even talking about riding here. Just in general, are we accepting that being overweight/obese is quite normal now?
These aren’t my thoughts, provided someone isn’t expecting a horse to carry them, I couldn’t care less what size they are, but it’s just an observation about how we perceive a normal weight now.
 
scats said:
Yes I realise that, I’m just talking generically. But realistically, a person of a larger body size is likely to be heavier in weight.
But that aside, I’m not even talking about riding here. Just in general, are we accepting that being overweight/obese is quite normal now?
These aren’t my thoughts, provided someone isn’t expecting a horse to carry them, I couldn’t care less what size they are, but it’s just an observation about how we perceive a normal weight now.
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I do agree. I was looking at an old news clip from the 1970s & the people in the street all looked really thin! That is a completely separate issue though. Whether someone is a healthy weight is a private matter between the person and their medical advisors.
However someone will be along in a minute to say they are being fat-shamed or discriminated against because they are being made to feel too heavy to ride. In all sorts of areas of life, people have to accept that they are unsuited to do certain things. I longed to be a ballet dancer when I was a child but I got too tall & because everyone knows ballet dancers have a height limit, I sucked it up & found something else to do. My best friend at school wanted to be a vet. It was all she talked about. She went every Saturday to clean kennels for them & watch what they did. As we got older it became clear that she wouldn't be academic enough & everyone knows that vets have to be academic. No one suggested she had a right to do it anyway & impose a partially trained vet on her customers - of course not! We need to get to a point where "everyone knows" that riding isn't for everyone.
 
There seem to be a lot of people who don't understand what helps people lose weight. Most actions taken to help people lose weight either send them onto diets (which do not work, is it 95% put the weight back on and a lot end up heavier long term?) or simply to gain more weight as they suffer shame, whether directly brought about by others, or do with their own relationship with food and their body. Help with mental health, relationship with food, is the very best way to help people lose weight.

Normalising large bodies HELPS mental health and is more likely to help people lose weight, however counter intuitive you think that is. Check out Rebelfit on Facebook.

For welfare purposes we have to encourage people who are too heavy for their horse don't ride, it's then up to them how they proceed.
 
Goldie's mum said:
Obesity and weight are not the same thing at all. An obese person who looks very fat in the advert you describe could be fine to ride if they are short enough that their weight suits their horse.
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Yeah and this circles back to the mythical 18st body builder who always gets used as an example in these sorts of discussions. "His" body fat would be really low but he's still a heavy weight.

"His" desire to ride shouldn't proceed animal welfare even if it is the *only* thing that helps his MH. Horses first. I mean you wouldn't think you'd need to spell that out for horses owners but here we are...

I mean I'm just waiting to get stoned but when a clothing company sprung up making sizes well into high 20s it made me very uncomfortable.

My short stint fitting saddles came to an end because I found it so upsetting having so many (% wise) clients that were too heavy [for their horse] and that didn't didn't in the saddles that they wanted to keep using. You can see it everywhere, people that are simply too heavy for their horses and too big to fit into a saddle.

Obviously there's been a big, long overdue, movement for "body confidence" because of the damage done by magazines/social media/fashion etc. However that seems to have been skewed by some into promoting unhealthy bodies. Now anyone concerned about health, and in this case animal welfare, is a fat shamer?

There's been a craze for very large people to "shame" places for not accommodating them e.g. budget airline seats and restaurant chairs. There is footage easy to find on SM of grossly obese people riding horses. It's like there's this sense of entitlement throughout society that I want should get and if challenged weaponise MH.

Losing weight is hard. I mean it's simple, less calories in than are used. But there's often more to it and food is a psychological crutch. I mean the affects of Obesity on the NHS is a different topic but in this instance Obesity IS affecting animals.

I've acquaintances who are very overweight who bought active working dogs. Now those dogs are obese and have all sorts of joint issues (& replacements in one case) because of their lack of exercise and over feeding.

Those that say their horses are fine eith the weight are the same that couldn't spot the lameness in a 3 legged donkey. That sue dyson video with the pain signs spelt it out but so many just think that it doesn't apply to them or their horse.

Like I said above be whatever size you want to be and you do you but don't inflict it on an animal.
 
Tiddlypom said:
These two pics are quite revealing. Me in the summer after I'd let my weight balloon back up again, and me 5 months later when 2 stone lighter (I've since lost another half stone). Same brand of size 14 jodhs. I'm 5'10".

It's my own saddle in both pics, and it is certainly easier to fit in the saddle with less blubber. Thinner pic was first time back in saddle after Covid bout 2, so I was rather wobbly, but by heck it felt good.

I'd have been at 16.2% on my own mare in the first pic, and 14.1% in the second.

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A photo popped up on FB of me on a scrawny little Arab type pony in Jordan 12 years ago. I was having a rough time in life and travelling 2 hours to work and back, so food options weren't great and exercise minimal. No one said I was fat but I was 1.5 stone heavier than I am now and tbh the photo horrifies me.

Losing weight is hard but I do think we are normalising obesity and given the awful medical outcomes down the line that can't be right.
 
It's not just the weight that's the problem. As your weight increases, so does the size of your back side ,.and very easily it spills over the back of the saddle. I have no doubt that this causes the horse pain.

I allowed someone to school my horse who was too big, I regret it now. He had quite severe back pain as a result. He's a 15.1 cob and everyone thinks cobs are sturdy- but he's anything but.
I weight a bit under 11 st , my backside fits in the saddle , but I wouldn't allow anyone heavier or bigger to ride him now
 
Goldie's mum said:
However someone will be along in a minute to say they are being fat-shamed or discriminated against because they are being made to feel too heavy to ride. In all sorts of areas of life, people have to accept that they are unsuited to do certain things. .
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Horses welfare is more important than someone's feelings. One does not have a divine right to ride.
People are too busy shouting "be kind " at fat people , when they should be shouting it towards Horses.
 
Totally spiralling off on a tangent... I'm overweight. I'm 2st over my "comfortable" weight and 3st over my "super fit" weight.

I'm not ashamed of my weight. It is what it is, I caused it and anyone with eyes can see it. I've chosen not to ride since getting to this weight although I'm well within 20% (can't do 15% in my head ha ha).

I've had a few people offer me rides on their horses and I've said no and that I'm too heavy. I mean the horse wouldn't die carrying me but that aside I don't feel strong enough and my centre of gravity/point of balance is off because of the excess weight. Anyway those folk have all rubbished my claims of being too heavy. I'm not sensitive about it and I don't need molly coddled or lied to.

Even chatting with a non horsey friend we were talking about our weight. We both go on holidays in the next couple of weeks ans have "forgotten" to get fit on the run up to them. Even in that open and honest convo my friend felt thr need to say I looked fine and was imagining it. I know what the scales and my clothes say! There was no need to placate me but its like #bekind has sort of lost the plot.

The #bekind thing has been spun so that anyone being told something that they don't want to hear is a victim of bullying. That no one can speak out from a place of concern (for person or animal) without it being bullying.

I mean I'm not (that) stupid and I'm sure others aren't either. I don't need told I'm not overweight when I know I am. But it reinforces certain things so I guess thats why some people think that they are fine to keep riding?

Another tangent but there used to be a lot of threads on here about yard "know it alls" who would stick their noses in and give unwanted opinions. Everyone would jump on and berate this "know it all". Of course yes there are annoying and antagonising people like this but maybe, just maybe, some of these people actually did know more and were speaking from a place of concern. That was never a considered option. Now the equivalent is that everyone is a "fat shamer" and a bully ?
 
I think the extremes are easy to judge, it's the bits in the middle that get harder. Apparently I'm denser than I look/I do think people actually struggle to judge weight very well, especially if it's outside of their own experience.

For clarity I was approaching 17 stone 2 years ago, I wasn't riding at 17 stone (I actively said no) but I also didn't have a horse that I had to worry about exercising either. I'm now about 12, and losing that took a year of basically that being given priority over everything else in my life, I'm not sure how I would have managed it and Frank on DIY at the same time.

I also suspect that the way most people imagine being 17 stone would be isn't always the case, I was very fit and active and moving my body now doesn't feel any different to when it was heavier other than getting up hills on the bike!
 
I’m all for body confidence and being happy with your size. But when we are sitting on a horse it does matter how much we weight. That’s a fact. If you are heavy you have to realise that you can’t get on certain horses or none at all for some.

Loosing weight is hard. But it’s not impossible. I have lost over 3 stone. When heavier my horse could still carry me and was under the 20% including tack. However now at 3 stone lighter he is going better than ever and I feel more confident. I fit in the saddle better. I can get on easily and can get on again if out hacking. I am more stable in the saddle so if he jumps about i can stay put. The trigger for this was him being very unwell. He went from a big weight carrying horse to one who couldn’t. I had a weight in my head that I wouldn’t get on while over that. The last 5 weeks before I got back on were walking in hand. Rehab for him and the walking for me to get the rest of the weight off. I either lost the weight or I didn’t ride.

I think it is great that bd have bright this up. Did eventing not used to have riders and saddles weighed at the end of the xc? Could they do similar? After your test you take saddle off and get on the scales with it. Take a weigh tape and have a horse weight estimate and go from there. Of course it is not precise but would give an idea.

Riders who are within the weight will not mind. Riders who are heavy will maybe start thinking. It dosnt need to be done publicly.
 
Sossigpoker said:
It's not just the weight that's the problem. As your weight increases, so does the size of your back side ,.and very easily it spills over the back of the saddle. I have no doubt that this causes the horse pain.
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Not necessarily an issue in and of itself. If we can get weight evenly onto seatbones and pubic arch, in a forward balance position over the feet, and weight down the inner thigh (requires contact, saddle dependent, and inward rotation) then rider bottom size relative to panel length doesn't always have too much effect. However, a tall skinny rider sitting on the back of the saddle WILL cause pressure. So many saddles have quite rear balance points that riders weight can be so easily concentrated on the cantle.
 
Yes but for eventing it was because there was a minimum weight, so they carried lead.

Having seen the different results from different weigh tapes (by 100kg) I don't think that's viable.
 
I’m one between the 15-20% boundary, as guidance I think it’s good. I’ve not renewed my membership this year though, mainly as I’m just too busy with others things (dressage is for schooling, not the aim).
Be interesting to see if anything’s started to be mentioned about horse weight. Mine is usually by far the leanest there of the sports horse types (we don’t have many local eventers!). I appreciate dressage needs a strong athletic horse rather than endurance or speed fit, but the average dressage horse is fat.
The whole proportionate to the horse with core, fitness and suppleness for a harmonious picture couldn’t be more subjective if it tried. Isn’t that the whole aim?! That rules as many people out of big moving warmbloods as it does ponies. How harmonious is harmonious?! No one gets 100%.
I don’t envy the judges. My Local affiliated you self steward, and this is surely more of a first rounds issue than as you go up the ranks.
 
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ester said:
Yes but for eventing it was because there was a minimum weight, so they carried lead.

Having seen the different results from different weigh tapes (by 100kg) I don't think that's viable.
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Yes I realise this. But I was meaning it was simply the routine then that you got off and stepped on to scales. So a different aim but the same process.
 
The 20% is a start but should be much lower. According to that my cob could carry 15 stone. At just under 11 stone I think I'm at the upper limit for his comfort.
 
Ali27 said:
I’m not sure that it’s worth it! It theoretically means that a nearly 16 stone person could ride a 500kg horse!
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16 stone will be more like 13.5 once you factor in the Saddle, boots and bridle. Very few ‘light’ saddles at affiliated in these times. My bliss of London with girth, pad and stirrups adds 11.9kg to me, I just checked!
 
doodle said:
When registering a horse, part of the information needed could be an approx weight. A semi educated eye could see if the horse in front of them matched the approx weight given.
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Could they?

We had the weigh bridge to our yard a few years ago and just for fun had a guess the weight competition. People were miles out, couldn't even put them in the correct order of weight for the most part.

It was an eye opener for dosages, the "average 500kg horse" is actually a small lightweight type of horse or big pony. Lots of horses need more than a single tube of wormer to get a full dose.
 
ester said:
Yes but for eventing it was because there was a minimum weight, so they carried lead.
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Princess Anne reckoned that having your weight announced to the entire racecourse over the tannoy was a great motivation to stay slim. It isn't necessarily a healthy way to do it though, jockeys, boxers and others who have to maintain a weight for their sport tend to have pretty dysfunctional relationships with food. Mark Todd spoke about feeling unwell because he'd dieted so hard to make the weight for xc day.
 
Like i say, an approx weight. Recently mine weigh taped at 650 and on weight bridge was 668. Most of the horses were within 30kg. I think we mostly agree a weight tape under estimates so a leeway could be built in.

I more thought rather than actually having to do it people would be aware it will happen and so some combinations would have a think. It dosnt have to be announced or done in public.
 
mariew said:
I don't know. Will it basically lead to people feeling justified or approved to tell others they are fat? .
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But this is not about the % of body fat, but weight. So a short person with a higher % or body fat might be fine to ride a horse which could not carry a taller person with a lower % of body fat. Likewise someone who might, from a medical perspective, be considered to have excess body fat might be comfortably carried by a horse who would not be suitable for a body builder. I do not consider myself to be overweight, and am well within medical guidelines, but for sure I could not ride every horse or pony in the world! It is simply about making sure that every rider, whether their weight is attributed to height, body fat or muscle, rides a horse which is able to comfortably carry their weight.

We do not consider it 'fat shaming' if a ride at the fair has a maximum weight limit, and if staff did not refuse to allow those obviously over that limit to use the ride then we would consider them to be not doing their job, and possibly liable in case of an accident. Likewise I have not heard anyone, either in this forum or in any guidelines, saying that people who have a higher % of body fat should not ride.

We need to remember here that we are responsible for the wellbeing of the horses that we own and ride. If we are too heavy for them we have choices, we can ride a different horse who is able to carry us, lose weight, or not ride. The horse has no choice, so it is important that we put their right to do work only within their capabilities above our desire to ride them.
 
ycbm said:
It's a great start that they are proposing a weight limit at all. I hope in quite a short time to see it dropped to 15%, which is my own personal limit for my horses.
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Completely echo this.

Great start, though, and I hope it might also trigger conversations about other areas of welfare where sensible, evidence-based guidelines could be brought in.
 
I’ve said this before till I’m blue in the face (vet, riding instructor, occasional dressage rider and someone who was never built to look like Twiggy) - the main problem is nobody has any common sense any more. If you are tall, broad shouldered and over 14 stone, get a nice big framed Irish Draft cross or similar that can comfortably take an 18 inch saddle and away you go. If you are 5’1 and weigh 7 stone in heavy clothing, do not expect a big moving 17.3 Dutch Warmblood to be a comfortable dancing partner. If you do not have the smallest arse in the world, do not try to cram said arse into a 16 inch saddle on a short backed cob. Unfortunately common sense really isn’t common these days
 
Kat said:
Could they?

We had the weigh bridge to our yard a few years ago and just for fun had a guess the weight competition. People were miles out, couldn't even put them in the correct order of weight for the most part.

It was an eye opener for dosages, the "average 500kg horse" is actually a small lightweight type of horse or big pony. Lots of horses need more than a single tube of wormer to get a full dose.
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This is interesting, perhaps I have been underestimating horse weights?

I was wondering what weight of horse William Fox Pitt would be riding and had assumed approx 500kg, but google tells me that WFP is 80kg so add 15kg for tack etc and he's near the top end of 20% if he's riding a 500kg horse. My husband is a bit shorter, but also the same weight. His horse would have to be 533kg for him to hit the 15% target.

I used to have a 15.3hh TB and I don't think it would have occurred to me that my husband's weight would have been too much for her.

Does anyone have any opinions/guesses/knowledge on the weight of horse WFP would be riding?

And is it possible to get an accurate eye for guessing a horses weight, or should we all think about weighing our horses more often?
 
TPO said:
I don't buy this at all. Gravity is gravity. 18st is 18st and doesn't magically feel lighter because they're a superbly balanced rider; it just maybe doesn't feel any heavier (until they go up a gait).
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I think you missed the physics lesson on momentum and forces.
 
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