Tokyo Pentathlon SJ
- Thread starter asmp
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Kat
Well-Known Member
I think UIPM should be pressed to respond publicly to this.
Afterall what good reason could they have for declining such an offer but it sounds as though they have done in the past.
SibeliusMB
Well-Known Member
I personally feel that since the UIPM has declined expert help in the past AND failed to make any improvements in the Olympic horse welfare/rider qualification standards since at least London, they cannot be trusted to fix this now. The fact they referred to the ridden portion as a "dramatic spectacle" and that it what makes their sport great proves they're not taking any of this seriously.
I think horses should be pulled from the competition entirely and replaced with some kind of equipment that they can't physically/mentally scar. Unless the IOC is willing to force FEI standards and approvals, and babysit to enforce, it's just not worth it.
I think horses should be pulled from the competition entirely and replaced with some kind of equipment that they can't physically/mentally scar. Unless the IOC is willing to force FEI standards and approvals, and babysit to enforce, it's just not worth it.
Kat
Well-Known Member
Unfortunately UIMP don't seem willing to consider such a fundamental change to their sport.
Therefore I suspect that the IOC is the next campaign target. If MP won't follow FEI welfare standards then MP shouldn't be in the Olympics.
pistolpete
Well-Known Member
There’s a comment that changes have already been suggested does anyone know anything about this?
Dave's Mam
Well-Known Member
Not that I expect any response.
Lyle
Well-Known Member
Haven't read the whole thread. I watched the modern pentathlon live, and it made for uncomfortable viewing. Whilst I totally admire the raw guts these athletes have to front up to 1.20m on an unfamiliar horse, I do feel the current format simplifies the relationship between horse and rider to one similar to a person and a 'tool', something that can be picked up and wielded by anyone. This undermines a lot of what makes pure equestrian sport so special, requiring enormous levels of empathy from riders to their equine partners. I was horrified to read FB comments from no the non-horse community, think the display they watched was the pure showjumping, or an example of how pure equestrian works, perpetuating the nonsense that 'The horse does all the work, anyone can sit on it and jump stuff'. Considering the sport was designed for CAVALRY officers, it's now a far cry to the current participants. Time to bring the sport into the 'modern' times, where horses are recognized as an equal athlete partner, and managed under strict welfare rulings (such as excessive use of whip, elimination after fall of rider, riding standard...)
conniegirl
Well-Known Member
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tristar
Well-Known Member
and yet again the horse shows us where we are going wrong, these amazing creatures who do so much for us can even decide whats best for us, they might well be thinking `well if i take this incompetent wound up prat at these jumps, i may injure myself or them` and trys to show us to re assess our approach on how to communicate with a horse and has very little to do with raw guts
a horse that is so concerned about the conduct of its rider, is hardly likely to be much use in the battle field, a horse asked capriole to save the life of both that does not respond instantly would be as useless as the poor creatures not jumping in the mp, and the riders of the military form would have spent most of their day with horses, no this spectacle bears no resemblance to military style
my grandfather who was in the cavalry, was a supplier of army remounts, and i know from talking to to him the attitude was horse first, consideration and care of
the horse came before anything else
and the horse reversing shows you can do what you like but a horse will show you up if you are wrong and it doesn`t know its on telly, and it doesn`t know it be making history and another little few steps towards big changes in welfare and training
the programs about racehorse slaughter and general abuse in slaughter houses, and that awful program about the thousands of greyhounds was needed i thank the people who made them, because you know this has been going on for donkeys years!!!!!!!!!! and only now its all happening because the time is right for change, and the publics mood has been captured.
the evidence is on this forum too, so many saying how much better they think the dressage comps are to previously, but there is still underneath the glory end all those poor souls of horses utterly ruined and broken by crap training, forgotten, because if the top level was not good to watch the unseen casualties are considerable
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ElectricChampagne
Well-Known Member
Apologies if I missed this, but did anyone see the update with pictures of Saint boy added to the UIPM Facebook page? I'm not entirely convinced that it is the horse Saint boy. Markings are different, and the photo is taken in winter.
ester
Not slacking multitasking
yup it's been commented on a few times as 1) not current, 2) not same horse- though I have seen white coronets cited for this and it just looks like peripole to me as well as the club foot 3) it's winter, 4) horse doesn't look very comfortable if that is your everything is fine promo pic 
ElectricChampagne
Well-Known Member
yup it's been commented on a few times as 1) not current, 2) not same horse- though I have seen white coronets cited for this and it just looks like peripole to me as well as the club foot 3) it's winter, 4) horse doesn't look very comfortable if that is your everything is fine promo pic
I can't believe the cheek thinking they would get away with that.
ester
Not slacking multitasking
I realise 1 and 3 are the same oops!
Zuzan
Well-Known Member
What is utterly beyond me and am sure has been mentioned before .. is why anyone or a club or RS would lend a horse to a descipline that disregards the horse in such a way.. You have to question the owners' standards of welfare and regard for their horses.
It may well have begun as a discipline for cavalry officers but so was eventing .. and never mind that those aforsaid cavalry officers probably had far more regard for their horses than any of the current MP exponents / competitors..
Maybe MP should take on board that many of the classical schools figured hugely in the training of cavalry (officers) .. to claim that the gung ho horses are secondary to competition ethos is "traditional" is sophistry.
It may well have begun as a discipline for cavalry officers but so was eventing .. and never mind that those aforsaid cavalry officers probably had far more regard for their horses than any of the current MP exponents / competitors..
Maybe MP should take on board that many of the classical schools figured hugely in the training of cavalry (officers) .. to claim that the gung ho horses are secondary to competition ethos is "traditional" is sophistry.
TPO
Fly paper for freaks 🍀
Mule
Well-Known Member
Public reaction seems completely dependent on whether an incident is caught on camera or not.
milliepops
Wears headscarf aggressively
The social media effect? If its on camera it can be quickly shared everywhere in a way that captures attention.
Mind you, there was some horrible stuff on FB after jetset was pts.
Dave's Mam
Well-Known Member
I think the reason that there has been such uproar is because until this hit the public stage in dramatic style last Friday, most were oblivious to the sport & what it involved.
It's now been plonked firmly in the public eye & people are seeing historic incidents too.
It's now been plonked firmly in the public eye & people are seeing historic incidents too.
Miss_Millie
Well-Known Member
I never watch the Olympics, but happened to be waiting around in a hotel room before a wedding I was attending, and caught a small amount of the equestrian Pentathlon. Watching the treatment of Saint Boy was horrifying, I couldn't believe what I was seeing. The horse was clearly terrified and should have been removed from the situation immediately for the sake of his welfare.
My partner is not horsey, but even he was shocked by how terrible the standard of riding was. I particularly recall one of the riders (I think Italy) having absolutely terrible jumping posture, she pretty much remained upright going over the jumps - it was amazing that she stayed on. My OH described her as looking like a 'floppy rag doll'.
I'm very concerned for the welfare of Saint Boy, and I sadly suspect he has been euthanised. The whole event was disgraceful and I hope that there is some justice for how that poor horse was treated.
My partner is not horsey, but even he was shocked by how terrible the standard of riding was. I particularly recall one of the riders (I think Italy) having absolutely terrible jumping posture, she pretty much remained upright going over the jumps - it was amazing that she stayed on. My OH described her as looking like a 'floppy rag doll'.
I'm very concerned for the welfare of Saint Boy, and I sadly suspect he has been euthanised. The whole event was disgraceful and I hope that there is some justice for how that poor horse was treated.
Gloi
Too little time, too much to read.
EORTH?
Winters100
Well-Known Member
I had no idea that this sport even existed, but looking at past footage it is a disgrace.
- look at 1:46:37 - she looks like she is pulling out his back teeth. I mean who on earth would lend horses for the event after watching this? Poor horses.
Dave's Mam
Well-Known Member
I know it's hardly a welfare issue, but my non horsey OH commented on the lack of a pat for the pony when in the main equestrian sports, the horses are cuddled & patted & hugged.
Dave's Mam
Well-Known Member
That's awful.
marmalade76
Well-Known Member
Yep, be careful what you wish for.
tristar
Well-Known Member
but we know eventing is high risk for horses and humans, to the extent we don`t sell horses for eventing, 40 years ago my friend refused good money for a horse, `they will only kill xxxxx` i was offered good money for a youngster a national stud mainland europe wanted him as a potential stallion, eventing as he is close tb, but no he`s out there now, munching grass and polos, and yes i`ve been moaned at for not letting him have his chance, but thanks very much i bred him for myself and have no interest in eventing or seeing anything i breed meeting an early end or being locked up in a stable 22 hours a day, he very much needs to live out and does, so we are completely aware of the cons of eventing but adding on the disquiet of mp showjumping
its this pushing horses to their limits that people, horsey and non horsey, don`t like, its so ugly and obvious
and saying there are horses near you that are suffering is true, we have one out there that lived through a nightmare, as people we are doing what we can to help those near while at the same time watching closely as horse sport cuts its own throat
its this pushing horses to their limits that people, horsey and non horsey, don`t like, its so ugly and obvious
and saying there are horses near you that are suffering is true, we have one out there that lived through a nightmare, as people we are doing what we can to help those near while at the same time watching closely as horse sport cuts its own throat
fiwen30
Well-Known Member
What an honest horse. That round was a complete train wreck, standing completely upright and swinging wildly on the horses face.
I don’t know a thing about MP, but surely the goal is to excel absolutely in each of the sports? Not be great at a few, and mediocre in others? Or above average in them all?
Maybe that french woman is great at all the other sports, in which case maybe she should stick to 1 in order to excel at it. Or maybe she wouldnt excel at all, compared to Olympians who only train that 1 sport, and so she has to compete MP instead, and crash about on the backs of willing but unhappy horses. Or unwilling ones, in the case of poor Saint Boy.
Howard Fernandes
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Howard Fernandes
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ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
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SibeliusMB
Well-Known Member
Denny is so in love with the sound of his own voice these days (and is so happy to delete those that disagree) it's hard to know what to do with anything he posts anymore. Again, the "Yeah, but what about THIS OTHER THING" doesn't help the welfare concerns in MP, nor does it help eventing. This is the blame game, in equestrian format. Useless.