ester
Not slacking multitasking
Or... you could keep the 'draw' element and they all get to pick their final task out of a hat! ?
Tokyo Pentathlon SJ
- Thread starter asmp
- Start date
TPO
Well-Known Member
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/ot...are-trampled-upon-in-tokyo-1.4643920?mode=amp
Another opinion piece
Another opinion piece
Miss_Millie
Well-Known Member
I think he's putting too much emphasis on how 'unfair' it was for the athletes on horses which did not want to co-operate. Yes, it must have been gutting for Annika Schleu and she was clearly out of her depth in that situation, but much more importantly, she reacted cruelly and aggressively towards her horse. The welfare of the animals being used should be the focus here - it was really lucky that Saint Boy wasn't seriously injured and the way she pushed him when he was clearly in pain was awful.
I think this alone highlights that a lot of these MP athletes are not horsey/equestrian people. There is a real disconnect and a sense that the horses are being used as tools - there is no partnership or respect. It's true that the nature of the MP forces this, which is why perhaps it doesn't make sense for horses to be involved at all.
He writes that Saint Boy and Constantin were not mentally up to the challenge of the course, but what I saw through and through was sloppy riding. Those horses refused the fences because their riders let them down, not the other way around. Perhaps out of all of the horses they were the most sensitive and reactive, but there were even some riders who cleared the course by the skin of their teeth, and that was thanks to the talent of the horses above anything else.
TPO
Well-Known Member
I don't know what happened in the 20min warm up but the version of Saint Boy in the ring wasn't because of "sloppy riding" IMO.
His brain was clearly blown. It happens; usually in a pressurised situation and that's usually a competition. Competition horses have long been known to "boil over" and need what would equate to down time. In one competitive sphere I've known a lot of horses to blow their brains because of a specific element of that type of competition (cattle). Never known any to need pts or be "rescued" because of it.
They get let down and turned away, are picked up again after a period and see how they go. Some went back to competing, some went to be brood mares, some were turned away for longer and some went to be work/leisure horses who didn't compete.
Clearly I don't condone some of the riding and actions at the Olympics (across all of the equestrian sports) I've seen a lot worse in a BS warm up and even worse in the lorry parks. If Joe Bloggs doing it for fun can't put the animal they claim to love first what makes anyone think the pressure of the actual Olympics would make it easier to shoulder?
A lot of posters asking what the point of horses in MP is but what's the point of making horses "dance", or seeing how high and how quickly they can jump, or how quickly they can go, or how far they can go? It's all for human vanity.
As someone demonstrated up thread there wasn't much of a difference between the horse expression, tack & "aids"/attempting to remove remove back teeth in the Nick Skelton photo and the Saint Boy photos. Was Nick excusable because he won SJ gold and is British?? I don't get how certain things get a pass and certain others don't*.
*not saying that MP should get a "pass"
His brain was clearly blown. It happens; usually in a pressurised situation and that's usually a competition. Competition horses have long been known to "boil over" and need what would equate to down time. In one competitive sphere I've known a lot of horses to blow their brains because of a specific element of that type of competition (cattle). Never known any to need pts or be "rescued" because of it.
They get let down and turned away, are picked up again after a period and see how they go. Some went back to competing, some went to be brood mares, some were turned away for longer and some went to be work/leisure horses who didn't compete.
Clearly I don't condone some of the riding and actions at the Olympics (across all of the equestrian sports) I've seen a lot worse in a BS warm up and even worse in the lorry parks. If Joe Bloggs doing it for fun can't put the animal they claim to love first what makes anyone think the pressure of the actual Olympics would make it easier to shoulder?
A lot of posters asking what the point of horses in MP is but what's the point of making horses "dance", or seeing how high and how quickly they can jump, or how quickly they can go, or how far they can go? It's all for human vanity.
As someone demonstrated up thread there wasn't much of a difference between the horse expression, tack & "aids"/attempting to remove remove back teeth in the Nick Skelton photo and the Saint Boy photos. Was Nick excusable because he won SJ gold and is British?? I don't get how certain things get a pass and certain others don't*.
*not saying that MP should get a "pass"
ElectricChampagne
Well-Known Member
...
tristar
Well-Known Member
Mrs. Jingle
Well-Known Member
Actually this idea appeals to me - but more about how a hat with various Its a Knockout type themes to pick from. That might be far more amusing to watch, and boy oh boy would it slap some over inflated egos and childish tantrums back down to some resemblance of normality!
Kat
Well-Known Member
Illustrating my point entirely.
tristar
Well-Known Member
illustrating the point that you are getting in deeper?
if you could clarify what exactly what is YOUR point, progress may be made, although i don`t hold out much hope
AandK
Well-Known Member
The point is, that your posts are not making much sense. And it's more of the same each time you reply...
milliepops
Wears headscarf aggressively
it was a perfectly straightforward question that triggered this diversion into the twilight zone 
Rowreach
👀
Ooh another update. And photos.
shortstuff99
Well-Known Member
tristar
Well-Known Member
Kat
Well-Known Member
Thank heavens for small mercies!!!
Kat
Well-Known Member
Meanwhile, back to the point!
That is a step in the right direction. At least it looks as though there is some recognition that there are problems.
AandK
Well-Known Member
Agreed. Good to see some recently taken pictures, although the ridden video (canter) is not that pleasant to watch.
milliepops
Wears headscarf aggressively
yeah that sounds like more than lip service. and the horse pictured looks like the right horse so hopefully that will end the PTS theorising!
Annagain
Well-Known Member
It does look like him but agree the videos aren't brilliant. Surely they could have taken the gadgets off to film for a few minutes? I get that ideally he wouldn't be in them at all but if he is, you'd think they'd at least have the awareness to pop him in a snaffle, cavesson and nothing else for a very short time. I think the UIPM really need to up their PR game.
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Berpisc
Well-Known Member
Hmm, slightly random, but how about replacing showjumping with something like le Trec?
I'll get my coat.
I'll get my coat.
SEL
Well-Known Member
I didn't see the horse refuse the combination because I had already been reminded I find MP's showjumping round painful to watch - but I believe the horses have to go round the course with a pro rider a few days before so I'm assuming the horse jumped it then. I do think once a horse has refused with a previous competitor it puts the second competitor to ride it in a tougher position
From reading their most recent statement there has obviously been a lot of crisis meetings going on behind the scenes once they realised their initial brush off wasn't going to wash at any level of the equestrian community. Hopefully this will lead to competitors (& support crew) who are more respectful of their equine athlete and actually have a desire to learn to ride better. That older footage where the horse fell, stayed down and then the rider got on and carried on jumping was horrendous. Even the flakiest horse owner I know wouldn't have dreamed of doing that.
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
I see very little to compare between a photo so a horse with a rider it knows well in a messy moment and what was inflicted by the demands of the competition in that horse it’s poor experience was prolonged and I would say fairly severe.
The bitting for start was unsuitable for a horse to be ridden in in that situation .
Looking back it seems absolutely mad that horse should be expected to accept another strange rider shortly after having a poor experience with another .At 1.20 jumping starts to be much harder for most horses it’s not a reasonable thing to expect that type of horse to do twice .
This is not a jumping 70cm in a riding school situation .
The bitting for start was unsuitable for a horse to be ridden in in that situation .
Looking back it seems absolutely mad that horse should be expected to accept another strange rider shortly after having a poor experience with another .At 1.20 jumping starts to be much harder for most horses it’s not a reasonable thing to expect that type of horse to do twice .
This is not a jumping 70cm in a riding school situation .
Kat
Well-Known Member
No it doesn't look great, but giving them the benefit of the doubt I guess perhaps he is a bit tired and stiff but they want to give him a leg stretch and check how he is under saddle from the point of view of whether he is sound and also to try and get a positive ride in from a mental health perspective.
I agree that seeing him in draw reins isn't ideal either but certainly in the trot video they weren't doing much and may well have been used more as a just in case he lost the plot.
Not necessarily what we'd do but then it doesn't look as though they have nice big green fields to turn out in.
Kat
Well-Known Member
The bitting was highly inappropriate for the situation and a huge factor in what happened in my opinion. I'm not necessarily against running gags but you have to understand how they work and they aren't appropriate in a situation where an unknown, relatively inexperienced rider is riding a strange horse in a high stress environment.
moon_and_spoon
Member
I'm just jumping in on the thread here, but the riding aspect of MP really needs to get together.
My biggest no no is when the horses are blamed for rider error. Whenever anyone gets a refusal it always seems to spark an argument about who got what horse and how 'unfair' it is. Every horse is an individual and just because someone produced a nice round from their horse that doesn't necessarily mean a different athlete could get the same results.
By the way, I haven't read the rest of the thread, just wanted to have a rant about MP as I find the SJ so painful to watch.
My biggest no no is when the horses are blamed for rider error. Whenever anyone gets a refusal it always seems to spark an argument about who got what horse and how 'unfair' it is. Every horse is an individual and just because someone produced a nice round from their horse that doesn't necessarily mean a different athlete could get the same results.
By the way, I haven't read the rest of the thread, just wanted to have a rant about MP as I find the SJ so painful to watch.
Miss_Millie
Well-Known Member
https://www.archysport.com/2021/08/annika-schleu-in-an-interview-wasnt-rough-at-any-time/
I just read this interview with the rider Annika Schleu (assuming it legitimate, perhaps translated from German). She claims that her riding wasn't at fault and that she kept her reins long?! I watched the footage back and she is pulling him in the mouth, whipping and spurring him excessively.
If she genuinely believes she treated that horse kindly, it goes to show how uneducated she is about good horsemanship.
I just read this interview with the rider Annika Schleu (assuming it legitimate, perhaps translated from German). She claims that her riding wasn't at fault and that she kept her reins long?! I watched the footage back and she is pulling him in the mouth, whipping and spurring him excessively.
If she genuinely believes she treated that horse kindly, it goes to show how uneducated she is about good horsemanship.
laura_nash
Well-Known Member
Agreed. Its also self defeating as it perpetuates the myth that the rider "just sits there" and the horse does all the work. In which case whats the point of having it in the competition at all.
Maybe the horses usual rider could take them around first in front of the crowd. They could see the course and get settled, and everyone could see they can do it fine. Downside is the horse having to jump round another time.
Kat
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure whether she is deluding herself or really believes it but that interview is a work of fiction.
"The owner of my horse then gave me tips, I took it all to heart, it also worked very well on the warm-up area, so that I actually went into the competition relatively self-confidently. "
She entered the arena in tears, that is not "relatively self-confidently" in anyone's book.
She also seems to indicate that the vet did not see the horse after the first round went so wrong.
Rowreach
👀
The draw reins don't bother me, the rider isn't exactly hoking him in with them, and the horse looks relatively relaxed and happy in the video.
Apart from being lame behind.
Apart from being lame behind.
Tiddlypom
Carries on creakily
Was he lame during the SJ, or has this come on since? He looks stiff and tired lame behind now.