Totilas even has special shoes?!

Naturally said:
Its sad that it comes down to that. I also believe this is an unfounded belief; how many times do we hear about one of Carl Hester's top rides having to be retired or PTS due to an injury out hacking or in the field?
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Unfortunately Negretto, a very promising young stallion of Carl's died as a result of a hacking accident.
 
Tinypony said:
Hoof oil not a good idea for barefoot horses. Check out the barefoot sites.
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It's not hoof oil. It's specific for barefoot horses I just can't remember it's name, since I'm a good 200 miles+ from home..... Anything else you want to attempt to patronize me about?...and fail? Epically?? Since when was this thread about what I put on my horses feet?? :S
 
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My horse has always been turned out but she has recently gone on to 24 hour turnout and OMG, has her attitude changed! She used to be a dolly when she was out in the day and in at night but now she's like a stroppy teenage girl with a 'whatever' face and attitude to work. Just throwing that in to the mix! Oh and I once knew of an expensive dressage horse which was kept in 24 hours a day (at Gleneagles EC no less) and it was nothing short of neglect. Horse was sold and the new owner had it sedated at first, to aclimatise it to being turned out, so that it didn't go ballistic and hurt itself. After a period of time, it adjusted and went out daily in a calm manner without any sedation, as it had no pent up energy to get rid of.
 
nikkimariet said:
It's not hoof oil. It's specific for barefoot horses I just can't remember it's name, since I'm a good 200 miles+ from home..... Anything else you want to attempt to patronize me about?...and fail? Epically??
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Whoa why is everyone having a go at you NM??? I'd jump in and defend you but I get sick of arguing over nothing on here sometimes but just wanted to give you a big hug x
 
PoppyAnderson said:
My horse has always been turned out but she has recently gone on to 24 hour turnout and OMG, has her attitude changed! She used to be a dolly when she was out in the day and in at night but now she's like a stroppy teenage girl with a 'whatever' face and attitude to work. Just throwing that in to the mix!.
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Bit random has she got any better? My boy has been acting funny since going out 24/7 so we decided to bring in at night again and he's settled back down again. I think its because he likes his routine.
 
Kokopelli said:
Bit random has she got any better? My boy has been acting funny since going out 24/7 so we decided to bring in at night again and he's settled back down again. I think its because he likes his routine.
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Yes good idea - suppose it could be the sugary season for grass now we've some sun :D
 
tallyho! said:
Whoa why is everyone having a go at you NM??? I'd jump in and defend you but I get sick of arguing over nothing on here sometimes but just wanted to give you a big hug x
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Unfortunately some people can't just *accept* things. I've never said that I agree with it as a concept - just that Totos owners and riders will have their reasons which makes the situation fairly justified! Thanks for your support and hug - don't get stuck in. Poking the angry NL bears with pointy mouse cursor is addictive....

PoppyAnderson said:
Wow, not arrogant enough! You usually come across as a balanced and informed person but seriously, that comment is very misjudged.
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Think the word you're looking for is ignorant - which I will admit to. Although, I can think of at least 5 threads that have occurred in NL with at least 5 of the posters on this thread that basically disregard anything other than no rugs and 24/7 turnout as unnatural and therefore WRONG. So maybe a little ignorant in my comment - again, I'll accept that - but arrogant? Nope. I don't think I'm better than anyone else, or that my views are and have never said I am or that my views are.
 
tallyho! said:
Yes good idea - suppose it could be the sugary season for grass now we've some sun :D
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I honestly don't think it is, as she's gone to a field which is mcuh more suitable garzing for her and poorer quality than where she was. There's hardly anything on the field. No, I think it's more about her routine, how she looked forward to human intervention previously, as it typically meant food or turnout or company. Now, it's as if she views it as an interference in her perfectly lovely free spirit lifestyle! If she was being prepared for comp, then her new found attitude may be counterproductive.
 
nikkimariet said:
Unfortunately some people can't just *accept* things. I've never said that I agree with it as a concept - just that Totos owners and riders will have their reasons which makes the situation fairly justified! Thanks for your support and hug - don't get stuck in. Poking the angry NL bears with pointy mouse cursor is addictive....



Think the word you're looking for is ignorant - which I will admit to. Although, I can think of at least 5 threads that have occurred in NL with at least 5 of the posters on this thread that basically disregard anything other than no rugs and 24/7 turnout as unnatural and therefore WRONG. So maybe a little ignorant in my comment - again, I'll accept that - but arrogant? Nope. I don't think I'm better than anyone else, or that my views are and have never said I am or that my views are.
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No, the word I was looking for was definitely arrogant. Your tone was patronising, as if the little people of the world ie, the Happy Hackers, wouldn't have the foggiest clue about the serious and real world of competing. Anyways, in the words of Debra Meading (or whatever she's called), I'm out.
 
PoppyAnderson said:
No, the word I was looking for was definitely arrogant. Your tone was patronising, as if the little people of the world ie, the Happy Hackers, wouldn't have the foggiest clue about the serious and real world of competing. Anyways, in the words of Debra Meading (or whatever she's called), I'm out.
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Hacking isn't a competition. And hacking does not require a comparable fitness regime. So, you're definitely after ignorant, because I disregarded the proportion of happy hackers (those that hack and are happy) that are well endowed in the knowledge pool of competing.

Also. It's Debra Meaden......:D
 
PoppyAnderson said:
No, the word I was looking for was definitely arrogant. Your tone was patronising, as if the little people of the world ie, the Happy Hackers, wouldn't have the foggiest clue about the serious and real world of competing. Anyways, in the words of Debra Meading (or whatever she's called), I'm out.
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I think that is the problem with the written word is you do not know the tone. Personally I don't think NM was coming across as arrogant and she seems like a nice person with useful advice.

In all honesty what do people who only hack and only have done hacking know about proper competition? I compete at lower levels and I still don't know much about competition which is why I don't comment on things like Totilas as I don't know enough about the topic.
 
In all honesty what do people who only hack and only have done hacking know about proper competition? I compete at lower levels and I still don't know much about competition which is why I don't comment on things like Totilas as I don't know enough about the topic.
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But the point is that it is arrogant and dismissive to state that the majority of those who think no turnout is wrong are just happy hackers who have no idea about competition horses.

Just because someone has a different viewpoint doesn't mean they aren't knowledgeable, or that they aren't experienced competitors.
 
well i'd love to see all of you try and bring this argument up with the owners themselves...or maybe a majority of the racing world who keep their horses in 24/7 when they are in full work?

I think there are bigger issues going on rather than toto not being turned out....
 
xspiralx said:
But the point is that it is arrogant and dismissive to state that the majority of those who think no turnout is wrong are just happy hackers who have no idea about competition horses.

Just because someone has a different viewpoint doesn't mean they aren't knowledgeable, or that they aren't experienced competitors.
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Indeed! And consider that some happy hackers may well have been competitors in the past.
 
Kokopelli said:
I think that is the problem with the written word is you do not know the tone. Personally I don't think NM was coming across as arrogant and she seems like a nice person with useful advice.
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I honestly do try and get across my point in a fair way. And I never try to be rude, or purposely pick on someone. Many of the people on here are older than me, and they seem to think that this, coupled with talking down to me like a child will make me shut up and think their POV is right - which is not going to happen. I will accept their POV once they accept mine. Agree to disagree etc....

xspiralx said:
But the point is that it is arrogant and dismissive to state that the majority of those who think no turnout is wrong are just happy hackers who have no idea about competition horses.
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Actually. I've never said that all happy hackers think that no turnout is wrong and that all of the same people have no idea about competing horses. I've said that some people on this thread are happy hackers and that they don't know about competing. And I have stated that a number of NL posters insist on 24/7 turnout and they disagree with anything else.

I don't think people who turn their horses out 24/7 are wrong. I don't think that people who keep their horses in 24/7 are wrong. I think that each situation is individual to the horse, the rider, the owner, the yard....etc etc and should be treated as such.

On the whole, the posters on this thread have said that it is cruel/wrong/unnatural for a horse (like Totilas) to be kept in his stable a majority of his life do so by generalizing the situation and suggesting unrealistic solutions.
 
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zefragile said:
Indeed! And consider that some happy hackers may well have been competitors in the past.
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This, I know lots of them. ^^^

I haven't read the whole thread so I don't know what NM was saying - I'm sure her intentions were good. Believe me, I understand why owners keep these competition horses in 24/7 but that doesn't mean that I think its right. Obviously I don't think he should be kept out 24/7 either, but surely it would be nice for these horses if they had a couple of hours out every day. It would be particularly nice for horses on the continent who have warmer weather. Obviously, for an experienced competitor like Totilas, changing his routine after years of no turnout would not be good, but it would be nice to see a change to this culture as they are horses, not machines.
 
IMO its a basic animal right to be able to feel the ground under foot, the sun and rain on their back and to be able to stretch and run freely.That goes for whether you're a chicken, pig, calf or horse. But as we all know, rightly or wrongly, money makes the world go round. Its sad Toto is a victim of his own success, but to get it in perspective there are plenty of equines suffering far more.
 
No - you didn't say some, you said:

"I think you'll find that most of the people who disagree with you are happy hackers who have no concept of competition training."

You stated that the majority of people who hold that viewpoint are happy hackers who don't know what they're talking about.

If you meant some, then say some, not most. It changes the sentence quite significantly. :rolleyes:
 
xspiralx said:
No - you didn't say some, you said:

"I think you'll find that most of the people who disagree with you are happy hackers who have no concept of competition training." If you meant some, then say some, not most. It changes the sentence quite significantly.
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Okay. I said most, not some....I cba to scroll back through boring page after boring page.....forgive me. I said most, hold my hands up there.




On a more light hearted note; my OH thought Totilas was a restaurant...:confused:
 
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So what have we learnt today, children?

  1. Totilas has special shoes
  2. Totilas doesn't get turnout
  3. His bad feet mean he shouldn't be bred from
  4. His bad feet are nothing to do with his breeding performance
  5. He should have more turnout
  6. He shouldn't have any turnout
  7. His browband and noseband don't match
  8. No.7 is not a major welfare problem as previously claimed
  9. This wasn't previously claimed in a serious manner
  10. The scenario described in no. 5 is a welfare problem
  11. The scenario described in no. 6 is a major welfare problem
  12. You should say what you mean
  13. Things come across differently in the written word
  14. Shills has a horse who is allergic to grass.
 
15. Totilas:
Moorlands Totilas (nicknamed "Toto") is a Dutch Warmblood stallion standing 17.1 hands (69 inches, 175 cm) high[1] who is considered to be one of the most outstanding competitive dressage horses in the world, the first horse to score above 90 in dressage competition
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Tortillas:
Tortilla means "little cake" in Spanish, and refers to several different foods eaten in various Spanish speaking countries and parts of the United States.
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Lol Naturally. Doh, I think I've changed my mind... erm number 7. Non matching nose and browband is an absolute disgrace and shouldn't be allowed in the show ring. :eek: :rolleyes:
 
PoppyAnderson said:
I honestly don't think it is, as she's gone to a field which is mcuh more suitable garzing for her and poorer quality than where she was. There's hardly anything on the field. No, I think it's more about her routine, how she looked forward to human intervention previously, as it typically meant food or turnout or company. Now, it's as if she views it as an interference in her perfectly lovely free spirit lifestyle! If she was being prepared for comp, then her new found attitude may be counterproductive.
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Oh pardon me, I stand corrected. How observant of you, considering I wasn't even responding to your particular post.
 
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