Trimming to these x rays.

lme said:
What’s the right thing though? I have a home bred who was born with issues that (despite early treatment and involvement from specialist vets) could not be be corrected. He is now a happy but wonky trainee lawnmower.
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If yours was treated there was no right thing. Ludo is different and I have a picture of him very young standing spreadeagled which would have produced the result we've got if that was normal for him. I now think he was splayed, not windswept, due to confusion caused by what looks like a reverse image x ray.

The right thing is to get your foals trimmed by someone who knows what they are doing. You did that. The issue Ludo has is that one growth plate grew more than the other and this is usually a response to pressure, as I understand it. It should have been correctable for several months before it closed at 6 months old.
 
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lme said:
What’s the right thing though? I have a home bred who was born with issues that (despite early treatment and involvement from specialist vets) could not be be corrected. He is now a happy but wonky trainee lawnmower.
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The right thing is what you did , get help from vets and farrier . Sadly not everyone does this . It’s about doing the best for the foal in front of you .
Some foals even with extensive treatment won’t come right .
There’s only a short window to get them the treatment they need too .
Your homebred is lucky to have you
 
Asha said:
The right thing is what you did , get help from vets and farrier . Sadly not everyone does this . It’s about doing the best for the foal in front of you .
Some foals even with extensive treatment won’t come right .
There’s only a short window to get them the treatment they need too .
Your homebred is lucky to have you
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Yes the window is really short - even with vet / farrier involvement from birth there were issues not picked up until we were referred to a specialist at 9 months, by which point irreparable damage had been done. If I have another wonky one, I will insist on a referral to a specialist centre immediately.
 
lme said:
Yes the window is really short - even with vet / farrier involvement from birth there were issues not picked up until we were referred to a specialist at 9 months, by which point irreparable damage had been done. If I have another wonky one, I will insist on a referral to a specialist centre immediately.
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I'm so sorry you couldn't fix yours, 😔
 
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OK, two updates.

The x ray is reversed. It is his left foot, which has a severe flare to the outside, and there is a matching, worse flare on the right hind foot so we can safely assume that bone is as bad or worse. He grows a strange square toe on the fronts which I think are the same issue in the front pasterns.

If you drop a perpendicular from the centre of the top joint, it hits the ground exactly midway between the left and right edges of his foot. It's there to balance the leg, as far as it can.

It is, to me, a miracle that the joint spaces are currently even when they must be taking enormous forces on one side with every step. I put that down to just how little work he's ever done. It is only a matter of time, to me, before that fetlock cartilage is damaged and/or the hock joints start to go under the strain of coping with this. We know they already have spurs on them.

If the flare is left, to maximise the balance of the foot and he turns a corner too fast, it levers and bends and creates pressure on the ligaments inside the foot. That's what's caused his initial lameness.

This week, the day after going for a mad 5 minute hooley the day before, he had two hot hind feet and two cold front feet. He has injured himself, almost certainly. Yet he needs that flare for stability.

I could continue the rehab, get him right, and then find any day that he has lamed himself in the field just playing.

I could take off the flare, destabilise the balance, and shorten the time he might stay sound before arthritis gets the pasterns and then the hocks and knees.

Either way, I am faced with a liklihood that I will be putting both of us through a lifetime of medication to keep him in work, and every mis-step will cause me agonies of worry about whether he is in pain.

I can't do it. I'm waiting for a reply from what looks like a super retirement livery near by and we'll go from there.

I know this is the right thing to do, but I'm in bits.
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Really sorry to hear he’s been sore again and you’ve reached this conclusion. It’s clear how much you think of him.
 
I am so sorry to hear this, but lucky Ludo that he has you for an owner. Let me know if you want to meet for coffee and commiseration xx
 
ester said:
Is there not a bit of a happy medium where you can leave the flare but roll it sufficiently that it doesn't cause leverage issues when moving?
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There is no way to straighten those bones. What hope does he realistically have of not getting arthritic joints within a year or two? The only reason he hasn't got them now is that he's never worked more than 4 hours a week in his life.

All his life he has lost energy at the 45 minute mark out hacking, and now we know why. I was waiting until he grew to full strength at eight but what has happened is that he has bulked up with maturity in the last few months and I think that's pushed him over the edge of what he can cope with.
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If it helps any, I am not at all surprised that he had a hooley and hurt himself. That in itself is not related to his chances of long-term soundness, it’s related to the fun of trying to heal a soft tissue injury in a horse. They start to feel better, they play, they forget to be careful…wham! Ouch! Suddenly the half healed soft tissue is torn again, often worse than before.

I am currently riding a gelding who is not quite better, but who needs to be tired so he doesn’t compromise the healing that is taking place. I am keeping him straight and together, in straight lines on even surfaces, walk and trot only. Before, he’d get better…better…better…look perfect than play and ruin it all. So we rested him until he was sound enough to ride, then jumped on before he started playing again. Now, he’s been steadily improving since we started the work program (with me obsessively checking each day that he’s ok!). Tired horses eat grass nicely and don’t hoon around. Progress!

If you can heal this, you may have some years yet of fun hacking left. If it was me, I would fix the current injury, hack from then on and keep an eye on behaviour. Perhaps x-ray every six months or so to check joint spaces etc and retire at the first sign of issues. I would also pop on a joint supplement to support. If he doesn’t stand up to work, fine, then you know that.
 
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I’m really sorry to read your latest update. I’m sure he will enjoy being retired. I think we have to try to be grateful for the opportunities and privilege we did have to ride such lovely horses, even if the stars didn’t align for us to continue riding them.
 
I'm not prepared to ride a horse when I think that riding him is going to cause arthritis. I know him inside out, he's been struggling with this for his whole ridden life, all the jigsaw pieces are fitting together with getting these x rays, i just couldn't find a vet who would take it seriously until we could make him lame.

Please people, it won't help me for you to suggest ways to keep him in work. I know you are being kind and helpful, and I'm grateful, but my decision is made.
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Ah, bugger. I know you tried so hard and did everything you could to keep him comfortable and ridable. Horses can be such heartbreakers.
 
ycbm said:
OK, two updates.

The x ray is reversed. It is his left foot, which has a severe flare to the outside, and there is a matching, worse flare on the right hind foot so we can safely assume that bone is as bad or worse. He grows a strange square toe on the fronts which I think are the same issue in the front pasterns.

If you drop a perpendicular from the centre of the top joint, it hits the ground exactly midway between the left and right edges of his foot. It's there to balance the leg, as far as it can.

It is, to me, a miracle that the joint spaces are currently even when they must be taking enormous forces on one side with every step. I put that down to just how little work he's ever done. It is only a matter of time, to me, before that fetlock cartilage is damaged and/or the hock joints start to go under the strain of coping with this. We know they already have spurs on them.

If the flare is left, to maximise the balance of the foot and he turns a corner too fast, it levers and bends and creates pressure on the ligaments inside the foot. That's what's caused his initial lameness.

This week, the day after going for a mad 5 minute hooley the day before, he had two hot hind feet and two cold front feet. He has injured himself, almost certainly. Yet he needs that flare for stability.

I could continue the rehab, get him right, and then find any day that he has lamed himself in the field just playing.

I could take off the flare, destabilise the balance, and shorten the time he might stay sound before arthritis gets the pasterns and then the hocks and knees.

Either way, I am faced with a liklihood that I will be putting both of us through a lifetime of medication to keep him in work, and every mis-step will cause me agonies of worry about whether he is in pain.

I can't do it. I'm waiting for a reply from what looks like a super retirement livery near by and we'll go from there.

I know this is the right thing to do, but I'm in bits.
.
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So sorry x
 
So sorry to read your update. I’m sure you’ve had lots of ‘that makes sense’ moments when you’ve been thinking about Ludo’s ridden behaviour with the the knowledge you now have. The decision you’ve made to retire him is utterly selfless and I hope he can have a pain free and happy retirement.
 
Upthecreek said:
So sorry to read your update. I’m sure you’ve had lots of ‘that makes sense’ moments when you’ve been thinking about Ludo’s ridden behaviour with the the knowledge you now have. The decision you’ve made to retire him is utterly selfless and I hope he can have a pain free and happy retirement.
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That's lovely of you to say so. I don't feel it's entirely selfless, but I can't face a future where we get a diagnosis of arthritis (which I feel is just inevitable) and I know that I brought it on earlier by riding him. I'm convinced the only reason he isn't arthritic now is because I wrapped him in cotton wool.

Yes, I'm getting constant "so that's why he did that" flashbacks now. The habit of leaving a hind leg way out behind him, the dirty stop when trying to teach him to jump, the unwillingess to keep his back up and really carry me at the 45 minute point of a hack, the gradual loss of suspension in his paces as he grew bigger and heavier .... I would be wracked with guilt now if I'd pushed him harder as a youngster.

I can't stop crying at the moment. I can't see a future owning another and having my heart broken again, we have bred them so fragile to get them big enough to carry us, we ask them to do such unnatural things and they break so easily. But i don't know what to do with myself without a horse to ride after 45 years. I guess I'll work that out in time.

I'm viewing what looks like a lovely place tomorrow, hopefully, about half an hour from here in over 140 acres of wonderful countryside, run by horse people, with good reviews and visits welcome at any time.
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