Utopia to be sold at Auction with no reserve..

Alec Swan

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His value? Well I've just read a report from Alice Collins, and considering that his previous foals haven't achieved prominence, and that given time, he may prove to be a top class schoolmaster, she's estimated about a £quarter-mill.

My honest opinion? There will either be two people who will fight for the horse, and for the kudos of ownership, or he'll peak at about £140-50k.

Alec.
 

Alec Swan

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He sold for £165k.

Not sure what to think. A deal? Probably not, sadly.

He's only a horse, and those who were forced to sell the animal have creditors to face.

Alec.
 

ihatework

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He sold for £165k.

Not sure what to think. A deal? Probably not, sadly.

He's only a horse, and those who were forced to sell the animal have creditors to face.

Alec.

I'd hope at that price he would have been withing reach for Carl/Investors, so hopefully good news.
 

popsdosh

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I'd hope at that price he would have been withing reach for Carl/Investors, so hopefully good news.

Realistically Carl and his investors why would they pay that for a 15yo. Sorry that would be my thinking.

Anybody offered me that for any 15yo I would bite their hand off. Carl has a yard full of potential why buy at that price a horse that will quickly decline.
 
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Alec Swan

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Realistically Carl and his investors why would they pay that for a 15yo. Sorry that would be my thinking.

Interesting, in his prime, I wonder what the horse would have been worth. Someone has lost an awful lot of dosh, as have their creditors, I suspect.

Alec.
 

ihatework

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Realistically Carl and his investors why would they pay that for a 15yo. Sorry that would be my thinking.

Anybody offered me that for any 15yo I would bite their hand off. Carl has a yard full of potential why buy at that price a horse that will quickly decline.

For sentimental reasons.
It would not surprise me in the slightest if a wealthy supporter handed over the money just because they could afford to.
 

popsdosh

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Interesting, in his prime, I wonder what the horse would have been worth. Someone has lost an awful lot of dosh, as have their creditors, I suspect.

Alec.

Some know why they have lost so much ,he would have made more 2years ago as a prospect for Rio however a lot of spanners were thrown in the pot that stopped the sale happening then. People conveniently forget the subterfuge going on then which has lost the creditors a lot of money.
 

crabbymare

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I look at it as being 110 mares at 1500 each. plus a few more for the cost of keeping him. its doable if they were to advertise him widely and have him approved for continental studbooks as it looks as if he is currently only with the kwpn so if they want to register for local studbooks a lot of german breeders cannot use him
 

Mrs B

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For sentimental reasons.
It would not surprise me in the slightest if a wealthy supporter handed over the money just because they could afford to.

Ah but by now, you should realise that whoever Popsdosh is, they have no room for sentiment. I think the clue is in the name, somewhere ...:)
 

popsdosh

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I look at it as being 110 mares at 1500 each. plus a few more for the cost of keeping him. its doable if they were to advertise him widely and have him approved for continental studbooks as it looks as if he is currently only with the kwpn so if they want to register for local studbooks a lot of german breeders cannot use him

Who wants to use him,nobody seriously breeding dressage horses. Sorry he is not stud material none of his youngsters have come through ,Totilas all over again!
 

Alec Swan

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I look at it as being 110 mares at 1500 each. plus a few more for the cost of keeping him. its doable if they were to advertise him widely and have him approved for continental studbooks as it looks as if he is currently only with the kwpn so if they want to register for local studbooks a lot of german breeders cannot use him

De Niro only covered 40 UK mares last year. Utopia has soundness problems, he's perhaps a bit small and his stock produced to date have barely excelled. The figure of a book of 110 mares would surprise me.

Alice Collins thought that he'd sell at £228k+. I reckoned £140-50k. Despite his performance record, as a future prospect for breeding, he really isn't out of the top draw, sadly.

Alec.
 

popsdosh

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Ah but by now, you should realise that whoever Popsdosh is, they have no room for sentiment. I think the clue is in the name, somewhere ...:)

Sorry to say you will find very little room for sentiment in the top yards . They run as businesses 165k for a 15yo on the way down or 165k for an up and coming 5yo I know where Carl would spend the money. The future of his business of course.
Investors invest money to create an income not to see it decline.
 
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KautoStar1

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I don't think the money and the horses potential is really what Carl and his investors are concerned about. What they wanted to do and let's hope they have, is secure the future for the horse in terms of his well being. Carl has had him since he was 3 or 4. He's taken him to gold medals. Maybe he just wants to do the best for his 'friend'. Sad world when there is no room for sentiment these days even in business. Carl has put his horse first before anything else. I hope it's worked out for team Hester.
 

popsdosh

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Ah but by now, you should realise that whoever Popsdosh is, they have no room for sentiment. I think the clue is in the name, somewhere ...:)

Oh on the user name you could not be further from the truth if you tried it never pays to try and second guess user names ! LOL
 
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AdorableAlice

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I tend to agree. The horse stood for a fee of £1500, it will be a while before any progeny prove themselves to be top class. Most stallions are a grand age before their progeny hit real heights. The horse is 15 years old and apparently has health issues. If a purchaser wanted to buy him as a top flight competition horse it would be a very short lived exercise, even if the horse could return to top level and do all the travelling required of international dressage horses. Aimed at the next games the horse will be 19. A wise buyer will realise every inch of greatness had already been milked out of the horse by Carl. The horse has had his day and any progression will be downwards as his age and issues climb.

Realistically what is he actually worth ? I don't think he is worth a figure that is not within what Carl and his backers could buy him for if they wanted to give him a home for life and stand him at stud. He was, and that is the crucial word, was a top dressage horse, he is now an ageing stallion that might be able to make a short lived return to competition. He is not Frankel.

He will get a decent home, he is not going through Beeston. It will be interesting to see what he goes for, if it is made public. I bet it won't be a much as some people think it will be.

I rest my case.
 

popsdosh

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I don't think the money and the horses potential is really what Carl and his investors are concerned about. What they wanted to do and let's hope they have, is secure the future for the horse in terms of his well being. Carl has had him since he was 3 or 4. He's taken him to gold medals. Maybe he just wants to do the best for his 'friend'. Sad world when there is no room for sentiment these days even in business. Carl has put his horse first before anything else. I hope it's worked out for team Hester.

Lets be realistic here who is really going to spend that money and let him rot in the field its not going to happen. As I said earlier much has been made of the horse having issues yet he was still up for competing maybe more was made of his issues than was strictly needed to be.
 

noname

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Who wants to use him,nobody seriously breeding dressage horses. Sorry he is not stud material none of his youngsters have come through ,Totilas all over again!


Totilas has some decent youngsters coming through the grades and some colts approved. He's oldest offspring would not yet be ready for GP so a bit early to tell.

Utopia does have some reasonable stuff considering the quality of mares in the UK. But £165K probably does not cover the legal fees spent over the last few years, since London, trying to establish who owned him!!
 

popsdosh

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Totilas has some decent youngsters coming through the grades and some colts approved. He's oldest offspring would not yet be ready for GP so a bit early to tell.

Utopia does have some reasonable stuff considering the quality of mares in the UK. But £165K probably does not cover the legal fees spent over the last few years, since London, trying to establish who owned him!!
Yes the smoke and mirrors!
 
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