Utopia to be sold at Auction with no reserve..

popsdosh

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I may be totally off the mark however the length of time to hear who the successful bidder is may be very telling with regard his future.
 

KautoStar1

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I wish that I had your faith in mankind.

Alec.

Not mankind Alec but I do think Carl cares very much for this horse.
Perhaps I'm a bit nieve but wouldn't it be nice if someone did something nice just because they could and not because there was something in it for them.
 

ihatework

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I may be totally off the mark however the length of time to hear who the successful bidder is may be very telling with regard his future.

Yes, you would have thought an announcement by now from Hester camp if they had secured him.
 

KautoStar1

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Yes, you would have thought an announcement by now from Hester camp if they had secured him.

Things have to be rubber stamped, funds transferred & all sorts of paperwork. Perhaps it's just a case of making sure everything is in order before confirming.
I wouldn't read to much in to the delay.
 

popsdosh

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Things have to be rubber stamped, funds transferred & all sorts of paperwork. Perhaps it's just a case of making sure everything is in order before confirming.
I wouldn't read to much in to the delay.

The funds would have needed to be secure before being allowed to bid.
 

Alec Swan

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Not mankind Alec but I do think Carl cares very much for this horse.
Perhaps I'm a bit nieve but wouldn't it be nice if someone did something nice just because they could and not because there was something in it for them.

There are very few who will do £165K's worth of 'something nice' in this world. These horses, the support systems and the costs of their production would, by Utopia's stage in life, have them relegated to retirement. Why do you suppose that he was offered for sale with no reserve? Had there been a ready buyer at £1mill +, then do you not think that the owners would have taken it?

I've no doubt that Carl's a caring chap, but there's a price attached to everything, and every one.

Alec.
 

KautoStar1

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Well yes Alec I know what you mean. And let's not forget he wasn't actually Carl's horse to sell in the first place. He's been trying to buy him for himself to secure the horses future. I'm sure Carl has some wealthy supporters who between them can rustle up a few quid for him.
 

Alec Swan

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Well yes Alec I know what you mean. And let's not forget he wasn't actually Carl's horse to sell in the first place. He's been trying to buy him for himself to secure the horses future. I'm sure Carl has some wealthy supporters who between them can rustle up a few quid for him.

Yes dear, but have they? The horse has been a good servant to many, Carl included, and I'd venture to suggest that if the combine which supports his former rider haven't bought the horse, then shame on them. Considering the previous value of the horse because of his achievements, I'd suggest that in the world of top class dressage £165k is small change.

We'll see!!

Alec.
 

ester

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Well if they couldn't afford him at that price I don't what price they thought they would afford him at.
 

popsdosh

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Why Speculate,
I think Carl will need to keep his head down if they didnt buy him at that price as loads on the Forums thought he would make a lot more.Sort of mocks what was said leading up to the sale. Maybe hard headed business sense took over after all. I will be Gobsmacks if PS bought him as he is really not that great a breeding proposition. He has been available for some time but not flying out of the Flask so to speak
 
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ycbm

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Yes dear, but have they? The horse has been a good servant to many, Carl included, and I'd venture to suggest that if the combine which supports his former rider haven't bought the horse, then shame on them. Considering the previous value of the horse because of his achievements, I'd suggest that in the world of top class dressage £165k is small change.

We'll see!!

Alec.

True.

At his previous stud fee they'll be making a fat profit out of him once they sell over 120 straws of semen to a worldwide market. And more if any of his offspring start to perform really well.
 

popsdosh

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True.

At his previous stud fee they'll be making a fat profit out of him once they sell over 120 straws of semen to a worldwide market. And more if any of his offspring start to perform really well.

Thats assuming they sell a 120 straws!

I really fail to see why there seems to be so much sympathy over this story perhaps some should have sympathy for the creditors who have had to fight hard to get to this stage with all sorts of tricks used to block them maybe some may find this enlightening. http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/n...ns-this-7m-olympic-wonder-horse-28786733.html

Bit of a difference 4 years make to his value
 

elliefiz

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Thats assuming they sell a 120 straws!

I really fail to see why there seems to be so much sympathy over this story perhaps some should have sympathy for the creditors who have had to fight hard to get to this stage with all sorts of tricks used to block them maybe some may find this enlightening. http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/n...ns-this-7m-olympic-wonder-horse-28786733.html

Bit of a difference 4 years make to his value

One of very few sensible comments I have seen anywhere regarding this issue. Such vitriol being directed at the auctioneers, the new owner and indeed anyone who might have had an interest in buying the horse, when in reality this issue has been dragged out for 6 years by the owner who tried to hold onto her horse by engaging in dishonest and quite frankly fraudulent practises. I'm sure if she had admitted to owning the horse at the beginning, the sales process would have been handled in a much different fashion.
 
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oldie48

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Surely most people's posts have been about concern for the horse's future welfare. although Carl and Charlotte have had brilliant results with him, I get the strong impression that he's not a horse you can compete regularly, not because of soundness issues but because he doesn't enjoy it that much and easily gets a bit sour (like a lot of stallions) and drops his rider in the middle of a test. If he's been sold to Paul Shockenmohle, then I think it could be his dream ticket, spending the rest of his life "doing what comes naturally" and going to the odd stallion show. I've a friend with a lovely horse by Uthopia out of Section D mare and I'm quite envious as he moves beautifully, looks fabulous and has a great temperament, Uti was very young and she got a great bargain.
 

elliefiz

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this idea he has sold to Schockemohle seems to have stemmed from Heather Moffat on Facebook trying to give the impression she has insider knowledge which seems very bizarre given that she doesn't seem terribly discreet so I doubt anyone has told her anything before a public statement has been released. I can't find anyone else claiming to have been told it's Schockemohle who bought him. I agree with the previous poster who is doubtful that he actually did sell to Schockemohle given that Uthopia isn't exactly an in demand sire. Going to Germany wouldn't strike me as a wise decision financially as I can't imagine he is very popular over there so his stud earnings would be seriously limited.
 

ester

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At least it stopped all the ridiculous gofundme pages, amazing how many people will hand over dosh to complete randomers :eek3:.

oldie48 his soundness has been pretty questionable though too?
 

honetpot

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I agree with that. Makes you wonder how serious they were about buying him.

Although I suppose we don't know for sure yet who has him.

If you were clever it would be better to form a syndicate of all the like minded people who would have perhaps put in a bid and have only one bidder. At all auctions you need just need two bidders who really want something to inflate the price.

I just hope he has found a buyer that will understand how to keep him. There is nothing so sad as seeing a good horse especially a stallion being passed from pillar to post, I know of a couple of dressage stallions, one of which in his day was well respected, that ended in a low end dealers yard covering black and whites with no papers.
 

eahotson

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The horse now has an established value, would you agree? Not what the creditors had hoped for, I'm sure, but the auction ring has now declared his worth, and to the final bidder.

Alec.

No Alex I do not agree with you.You are confusing worth (commercial) and value.As an example my little dog is a very valuable dog. To me.Her commercial worth? Nothing I would think.
 

Alec Swan

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There are many decent and well regarded horses which end up on a downhill slide as they pass from one owner to the next, with just about all of the new owners being reliant upon the kudos attached to ownership.

I also wonder, and considering that the sale price of £165k was but a fraction of his previous worth, it still remains a great deal of money. Why would someone buy him at that sort of cost, even were it simply for the vanity factor? Is anyone that shallow that they'll lay out a considerable sum, and simply to inflate their own sense of worth?

Will he stand at stud? The cost of keeping and managing a stallion of that caliber (as a competing horse, that is), would have me wonder if the stud fees will ever allow them to recoup the initial cost. I also notice that there seemed to be a lack of any semen reports as to their viability from either chilled or frozen usage.

Strangely, I honestly thing that Utopia was a very expensive horse at the price just realised. I will be delighted to be wrong on all counts! :)

Alec.
 

tristar

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i really have`nt a clue what`s going on! a load of speculation no doubt.

however auctions produce bizarre results, sometimes things sell for more, and are overpriced, sometimes for less and are a bargain, the true value of a horse to me would be what someone would pay in cold blood, not an auction.

if a horse of 15 is over the hill, i`m a monkeys uncle, at this age a horse should, if trained correctly still be capable of improvement and should be highly valued not necessarily in monetary terms but for what he has achieved and for the what the best bits of his work could offer in training students.

if dressage is truly training the horse, then they should get better not deteriorate, throughout their working life, until old age takes hold. however we are talking here about competition dressage, and i have only seen this horse once, but in the world of comp dressage he is a high achiever and brings with him the actual experience of performing at that level.
 
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