Utopia to be sold at Auction with no reserve..

Goldenstar

Well-Known Member
Joined
28 March 2011
Messages
46,020
Visit site
I think up in arms overstates it a little but it's certainly very sad when an older horse who has given a lot changes homes particularly when his life has included turnout and hacking and there's no guarantee as a dressage stallion he will have this in the future .
However he may go off to a lovely stud with paddocks and lots of nice mares let's hope so .
 

Alec Swan

Well-Known Member
Joined
20 October 2009
Messages
21,080
Location
Norfolk.
Visit site
……..

I find it astonishing at the calls on Facebook that hope the horse can stay with Carl. If he didn't buy the horse direct then people can't whinge on that the horse may end up elsewhere. I can't believe people are up in arms about the situation!

Considering that Hester isn't some kid from down the road who mucks out at weekends in return for a free ride and that he's running a highly successful business and throughout the horse's career, his been very well paid, to suggest that he was unable to raise the needed bid to top £165k, would raise an eyebrow.

Perhaps he was hoping that the horse would be bought and gifted to him. That would have been nice, I agree, but hardly at the forefront of everyone's mind!

Alec.
 

millikins

Well-Known Member
Joined
7 March 2011
Messages
3,895
Visit site
Well I hope Alec's OH is right and KP has bought him. She has enough dosh to be sentimental, is a decent rider who seems keen to learn, keeps her other animals well and is too busy to over compete him. sadly I think it's unlikely because she does love a headline and I think we'd know by now.
 

sasquatch

Well-Known Member
Joined
3 July 2014
Messages
1,808
Location
Ulster
Visit site
Well I hope Alec's OH is right and KP has bought him. She has enough dosh to be sentimental, is a decent rider who seems keen to learn, keeps her other animals well and is too busy to over compete him. sadly I think it's unlikely because she does love a headline and I think we'd know by now.

I did have the same thought that maybe KP had bought him, lol
We know she does like her dressage, has the money and seems to have a love of horses and does the best by them, but I highly doubt she has bought him.

The lack of headline could be due to the horse not yet being paid for, I'm not sure how it works but the auction house can't release details until he is paid for (I think?!) so maybe it is the same for the owner, they can't claim he is theirs until he has been paid for. I may be looking into things too much, but the fact that they are bringing up that he must be paid for in full within a certain time period sounds like he hasn't yet been paid for.
 

popsdosh

Well-Known Member
Joined
7 November 2008
Messages
6,388
Visit site
I dont think auction houses are allowed to disclose buyers at all- client confidentiality. Iknow Goresbridge, Cavan etc are publicised in the 'Irish Field' but if people dont want to be named it just says cash.....

Exactly the auction house is not at liberty to disclose who has bought him(it wont be because they havent paid as the funds had to be available before they would let you bid) and I am sure there are also very good reasons why we dont yet know whats the point in speculating as in KP for example.
 

conniegirl

Well-Known Member
Joined
3 November 2004
Messages
8,624
Visit site
Exactly the auction house is not at liberty to disclose who has bought him(it wont be because they havent paid as the funds had to be available before they would let you bid) and I am sure there are also very good reasons why we dont yet know whats the point in speculating as in KP for example.
Whilst funds would need to be available, it is highly unlikely to be available in cash or debit card! it will most likely be conducted via bank transfer for a sum of that size and as most banks don't opperate on a Saturday, Sunday or bank holiday Monday then funds won't clear until Tuesday earliest.
 

WelshD

Well-Known Member
Joined
19 October 2009
Messages
7,973
Visit site
Whilst funds would need to be available, it is highly unlikely to be available in cash or debit card! it will most likely be conducted via bank transfer for a sum of that size and as most banks don't opperate on a Saturday, Sunday or bank holiday Monday then funds won't clear until Tuesday earliest.

Yes I think the purchaser has two 'business days' to pay so this would make sense absolutely
 
Last edited:

popsdosh

Well-Known Member
Joined
7 November 2008
Messages
6,388
Visit site
The reason you don't know is because the buyer doesn't want it to be known yet ,it really is that simple.
I can actually transfer money at any time for any amount and it shows in the account within minutes does not matter whether banks are open or not . Full payment is due on the fall of the hammer you don't get a payment plan. That is why they don't accept bids from people who do not show cleared funds to cover what they are bidding to.
 

Alec Swan

Well-Known Member
Joined
20 October 2009
Messages
21,080
Location
Norfolk.
Visit site
Bidding at high end auctions has the auction house either issue a 'paddle' should the bidder be in the room, or if the bid is over the 'phone or on-line, then the bidder has to establish their credit worthiness with the auction house, and some time before the start of the auction itself. Joe Bloggs simply 'phoning on the day of the auction isn't how it works, the result would be chaos!

I buy and sell too at auction, and those who run the businesses have to be convinced of the bidder's ability to pay. The successful bidder in this case, would have been very well known for the bid to have been offered and accepted.

Ets, and as popsdosh says, funds can be transferred within minutes on such occasions, regardless of the day of the week or the time of the day.

Alec.
 
Last edited:

stormox

Well-Known Member
Joined
4 May 2012
Messages
3,266
Location
midlands
Visit site
Exactly, Popsdosh. As with any auction, the buyer has to assume responsibility for the horse and transfer funds very soon after fall of hammer, they certainly wouldnt wait until banks opened in 3 days time!! After all, who would be responsible for the horse meanwhile?
If the buyer doesn't want to be known yet, its his/her business. The auction house certainly wont be the ones to disclose who it is.
Good luck to them and whatever Uthopia's future now holds.
 

Polos Mum

Well-Known Member
Joined
22 September 2012
Messages
5,931
Location
West Yorkshire
Visit site
Interesting that someone decided to pay more for him than, the person who probably knows him best, thought he was worth - slightly brave decision as I guess that sort of auction = no vet history?
 

HashRouge

Well-Known Member
Joined
16 February 2009
Messages
9,254
Location
Manchester
Visit site
Interesting that someone decided to pay more for him than, the person who probably knows him best, thought he was worth - slightly brave decision as I guess that sort of auction = no vet history?

But I imagine some people are so rich that £165,000 is really just pennies - if I had that sort of money I'd probably have bought him myself :D
Whereas I suppose Carl still has to look at things from a business point of view.
 

WelshD

Well-Known Member
Joined
19 October 2009
Messages
7,973
Visit site
True you have to prove you have the funds to pay before your ability to bid has been cleared however the owner of the auction house has been quoted in saying that the buyer has two working after the auction days to pay which made it sound that payment wasn't necessarily made on the night

I've bid (on behalf of an employer) at similar auctions in the past using a few different auction houses (though admittedly not this one) but always when we've won a lot we then have a nail biting wait for confirmation that our bid is the valid final one as giving us instructions to pay then after payment we have had a wait again for another communication confirming everything and authorising us to arrange to collect our goods, this hasn't always happened straight away

Until we have the receipt nothing is guaranteed

I'm not sure how this auction house works but it's now the weekend so it may be safe to say the administration may now wait until someone is back in the office so regardless of when that button is pressed for the money transfer you will almost certainly need to have a human at the other end to confirm receipt and issue a confirmation before you can start celebrating

Of course the buyer may choose to say something at any point but if it were me is want to be clutching my receipt in my grubby hands before I tempt fate!
 

SO1

Well-Known Member
Joined
29 January 2008
Messages
6,685
Visit site
High net worth individuals or big business can operate a different banking system to others. The banks will offer them a 24/7 service and they probably have personal bankers who can move money for them very quickly if they want to.

CH has been a bit of a pioneer in how he has managed his dressage horses. However there seems to be more scientific evidence now that regular turnout and cross training can help keep the horses sounder than being stabled 24/7 and working on a surface all the time. It may take a while for others to catch up but if CH methods continue to work and produce successful sound dressage horse then others will hopefully follow his methods. Hopefully whoever has bought Utopia if they have bought him to ride and complete will be sensible enough to follow the same routine and training methods that CH has used in order to get the best out of the horse.

The amount CH was willing to pay to secure Utopia would only be based on what he would have been worth to him and the amount of money he was willing to risk. It is hard to make money from horses if you are very sentimental. What he might be worth to someone else as a schoolmaster or status symbol or for a breeding program may be different based on how much money they have and what levels of risk they are willing to take. When Chinese tycoons are spending 69 million dollars on a diamond for their daughter, a couple of hundred thousand pounds for horse probably seems like nothing to someone like that.
 

lannerch

Well-Known Member
Joined
19 July 2008
Messages
3,459
Location
Shropshire
Visit site
I struggle to see how Carl if really serious could not have secured him at £165k , the price he sold for was not dear. Considering his breeding potential even if lame he's not a wild investment and as long as fertile which has been proved a sound investment at that price.
 

popsdosh

Well-Known Member
Joined
7 November 2008
Messages
6,388
Visit site
I struggle to see how Carl if really serious could not have secured him at £165k , the price he sold for was not dear. Considering his breeding potential even if lame he's not a wild investment and as long as fertile which has been proved a sound investment at that price.

Really its all speculation he obviously was not seen to be a sound investment for breeding from some very astute business people. Of course Carl could have secured him at any price if he wanted too. However after all the furore about all the crowd funding etc the truth is now out CH was not prepared to pay the price however he had done the honourable thing and stopped all the way out suggestions to raise money early on. Theire you were all thinking the only thing stopping CH buying him was the money. LOL
 

eahotson

Well-Known Member
Joined
4 June 2003
Messages
4,131
Location
merseyside
Visit site
Maybe I'm being unnecessarily harsh but there has been much talk of securing the horse's future etc but the person with the most incentive to do that seems to have not done so

I'm not sure if Carl didn't intend to buy (business mind over sentimentality - nothing wrong with that) or just went in with the loose change from behind the sofa

I find it astonishing at the calls on Facebook that hope the horse can stay with Carl. If he didn't buy the horse direct then people can't whinge on that the horse may end up elsewhere. I can't believe people are up in arms about the situation!
Where is the like button?
 

Sandstone1

Well-Known Member
Joined
16 July 2010
Messages
7,709
Visit site
Is there not a chance that whoever has bought him, might leave him with Carl Hester?
Could he still be used at stud using Ai?
Don't know much about these things so maybe it's not possible.
 

ycbm

Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
Joined
30 January 2015
Messages
56,545
Visit site
It may take a while for others to catch up but if CH methods continue to work and produce successful sound dressage horse then others will hopefully follow his methods.

Do they though? Carl's horses don't seem to last any longer than other people's. Neither Valegro (last time I saw him struggling with his changes for some reason) nor Uthopia look as if they are going to last as long as Parzival, whose training has been severely criticised.

Top level dressage is desperately hard on horses.

I feel echoes of Kauto Star in this story, a horse who deserved more after hard service. I hope I'm wrong in that and he ends up somewhere fabulous.
 
Last edited:

lula

Well-Known Member
Joined
14 August 2011
Messages
1,113
Visit site
Do they though? Carl's horses don't seem to last any longer than other people's. Neither Valegro (last time I saw him struggling with his changes for some reason) nor Uthopia look as if they are going to last as long as Parzival, whose training has been severely criticised.

Top level dressage is desperately hard on horses.

I feel echoes of Kauto Star I this story, a horse who deserved more after hard service. I hope I'm wrong in that and he end up somewhere fabulous.



^^^^ Good post.
 

lula

Well-Known Member
Joined
14 August 2011
Messages
1,113
Visit site
The thing is, it wasn't her news to give anyway. It's Carl's news. Whatever she's heard, if she's a friend, she shouldn't be sharing it with anyone.


Ah yes, but its nice to say things like 'i have it on good authority' when you know Carl. Makes you sound all important and stuff and people start listening to you. Then when you speculate someone has bought the horse with some conviction and then you wonder why people take you at your word, HM?

Just own it. yes you did say it.
 

ester

Not slacking multitasking
Joined
31 December 2008
Messages
60,198
Location
Cambridge
Visit site
Salinero was competing at 18 odd too?

I too think Carl made the statement to stop the gofundme nonsense of people giving money to randomers and even then people said what if he doesn't actually want the horse for keeps anyway.
 

MotherOfChickens

MotherDucker
Joined
3 May 2007
Messages
16,641
Location
Weathertop
Visit site
I think the whole fuss about it is quite bizarre-I do not understand why people would want to help someone like CH buy a horse, he can buy his own horse if he wants one! Besides, owning his own horses means less room on his yard for paying owners.

CH is not the only person that can look after a horse well-even a special needs one and some of the FB comments are just :eek: People are so annoyed that he didnt take them up on their offer of fundraising-if I were him I'd not want the hassle of all those people feeling more entitled to the horse/him than they seemingly do now.
 

eahotson

Well-Known Member
Joined
4 June 2003
Messages
4,131
Location
merseyside
Visit site
I think the whole fuss about it is quite bizarre-I do not understand why people would want to help someone like CH buy a horse, he can buy his own horse if he wants one! Besides, owning his own horses means less room on his yard for paying owners.

CH is not the only person that can look after a horse well-even a special needs one and some of the FB comments are just :eek: People are so annoyed that he didnt take them up on their offer of fundraising-if I were him I'd not want the hassle of all those people feeling more entitled to the horse/him than they seemingly do now.

Ah but he never said he was going to buy him personally.He was looking for owners/backers I think.
 

tristar

Well-Known Member
Joined
23 August 2010
Messages
6,586
Visit site
well said ycbm, hard on horses, when in fact true dressage makes the horse last longer and is the whole point of dressage to mobilise the horse enabling him to move in such a way that he does`nt wear out through his work!
 

Goldenstar

Well-Known Member
Joined
28 March 2011
Messages
46,020
Visit site
Grand Prix dressage horses are like gymnasts and human gymnasts are often lame very young .
I don't have an I depth knowledge on this but I see no evidence that CH trained horses last longer than other peoples .
 

eahotson

Well-Known Member
Joined
4 June 2003
Messages
4,131
Location
merseyside
Visit site
Yeh and whats the point in that!
Well if I could afford it I wouldn't mind owning Uthopia.Also minor considerations like loyalty for instance?He gave Carl his very first Olympic gold medal.Just after the Olympics his stud fee was a lot higher than £1500 and its not his fault he has barely competed since.In fact I THINK although I don't know that he was being lined up as a second to Valegro for Charlotte at Rio. Even very hard headed successful business people don't base all their decisions purely on financial profit.
 
Top