galaxy
Well-Known Member
Who will I am sure have totally rebranded by tomorrow morning....
Watchdog!
- Thread starter BijouBabe
- Start date
Who will I am sure have totally rebranded by tomorrow morning....
horsebenny
Well-Known Member
I'd be interested to know how much Bute some of these places get through in a week!
galaxy
Well-Known Member
The people with the bay cob that was 2.5 instead of 4 etc are very good friends of mine so I know them very well. (I'm the "friend that ended up in a&e" ..)
They were looking for a safe cob (regardless of age) and when viewing him were told that he was 4 and he was perfect throughout the viewing. Yes they should have had him vetted but that still wouldn't have shown up the behavioural problems would it?
He's now just turned 3 so is being lightly ridden, no more than any just broken youngster would be. They care very much about their horses, and wouldn't do anything to harm Woody.
Obviously once they found out about his real age they could understand why he was behaving the way he was but rolling when being ridden is a very dangerous habit which to be honest I can't see him outgrowing now (rolling is a get out behaviour for him, he's done it to me when being simply led down to the field because I wouldn't let him stop for grass) .
I don't hold any grudges against him for dislocating my shoulder, he's only young and strong so me putting my arm at a dodgy angle while he barged me wasn't his fault. He has to learn, but he was sold as safe for small children to handle and ride this is the main issue here. Luckily he was bought in the middle of winter so the kids hadn't been up to ride/fuss him before they found out what he was like. But my friends are now stuck with a horse they are very unlikely to ever be able to sell and may never be fit for the purpose they bought him for.
It's just lucky the problems were spotted before he killed or seriously injured one of my friends grandkids.
Please don't rip her to shreds, she was unfortunately badly conned and is now in a difficult situation
I do feel sorry for your friend, but the vetting would have shown up his age....??
She also said she didn't want a youngster so why did she buy a 4 yr old? Even thought 4 year olds are (generally) broken in they can still be incredibly naughty as they go through phases. She would have been much better off with a more experienced older horse.
Hope she manages to sort it all out.
be positive
Well-Known Member
The people with the bay cob that was 2.5 instead of 4 etc are very good friends of mine so I know them very well. (I'm the "friend that ended up in a&e" ..
They were looking for a safe cob (regardless of age) and when viewing him were told that he was 4 and he was perfect throughout the viewing. Yes they should have had him vetted but that still wouldn't have shown up the behavioural problems would it?
He's now just turned 3 so is being lightly ridden, no more than any just broken youngster would be. They care very much about their horses, and wouldn't do anything to harm Woody.
Obviously once they found out about his real age they could understand why he was behaving the way he was but rolling when being ridden is a very dangerous habit which to be honest I can't see him outgrowing now (rolling is a get out behaviour for him, he's done it to me when being simply led down to the field because I wouldn't let him stop for grass
I don't hold any grudges against him for dislocating my shoulder, he's only young and strong so me putting my arm at a dodgy angle while he barged me wasn't his fault. He has to learn, but he was sold as safe for small children to handle and ride this is the main issue here. Luckily he was bought in the middle of winter so the kids hadn't been up to ride/fuss him before they found out what he was like. But my friends are now stuck with a horse they are very unlikely to ever be able to sell and may never be fit for the purpose they bought him for.
It's just lucky the problems were spotted before he killed or seriously injured one of my friends grandkids.
Please don't rip her to shreds, she was unfortunately badly conned and is now in a difficult situation
Vetting would have shown up the main issue which was his age, yes they are in an unfortunate position now but it could have been sent back as not fit for purpose if vetted after getting it home or before collection.
Queenbee
Well-Known Member
They were actors
Redwings was just checking them but I think Queenie may be PTS.
And i'm sure they didn't get vetted to see how Kelly would sell them
I believe both queenie and loppy will be spending the rest of their lives with redwings, that was certainly the impression given. They were quite clear that Queenie, whilst not having a long life, would be kept there, comfortable and pain free and well cared for until the joint degenerated to such an extent that pain management was not possible. They indicated 1-2 years so neither of them seem to be facing imminent death... just some decent care, love and respect in their final years.
I suspect that they took the approach they did because they wanted to ensure that they actually could get their vets to look over the horses, if they refused payment pending satisfactory vetting, they ran the risk of KC refusing the sale/vetting because they knew the horses would fail or come up short on their descriptions at least. As a result the best way to do this would have been to hand the money, take the horse, then get it vetted... this exposes far more than risking not being able to vet the horse. Take queenie for example... seriously lame and ******, one assumes that something was administered to mask that at the dealers and that the dealers would know she would fail a vetting.
He can talk for England can't he?
'THAT'S THE VETS JOB'
Mate, you should be able to tell if your horse is lame or not. Erh meh gawd.
Interestingly, when they were filming him over the discussion of loppys age, he specifically said that when age was unknown (as in her passport) they get the vet out to check so they know what to accurately advertise... So he would have you believe they do work with vets, then he denys his responsibility to check if the horse is lame or not... saying thats down to the purchasers vet. It is illegal to leave a horse in pain... simply on that he is breaking the law...
I would use some colourful wording to describe him, but id get banned
inamac
Member
The programme could have made more of the need to know what you;re doing when buying a horse - especially with so many novice owners entering the market - all ready to be conned.
But the real problem with applying the Sale of Goods Act to animal sales (not just horses but puppy and kitten-farm products) is that once the owner has the 'goods' and discovers the extent of the 'damage' they are (understandably) reluctant to return the animal to the place they got it for a refund. If anyone should pay for the care these two horses will receive at Redwings it's the dealer.
But the real problem with applying the Sale of Goods Act to animal sales (not just horses but puppy and kitten-farm products) is that once the owner has the 'goods' and discovers the extent of the 'damage' they are (understandably) reluctant to return the animal to the place they got it for a refund. If anyone should pay for the care these two horses will receive at Redwings it's the dealer.
tessybear
Well-Known Member
Their facebook page has been mauled 
Pearlsasinger
Up in the clouds
I wouldn't be at all surprised - this is at least their 3rd reincarnation - but David Thomas seems to keep his own name despite being banned from being the director of a business. And they are always in a similar location.
Montyforever
Well-Known Member
I know the vetting would have shown up his age, which we are all more than aware of.
The point of the program was that the horses are not being sold as described. He was described as being 4, 100% safe to ride, drive and handle. He is none of that (opposite infact!) and if a novice had taken him on there could have been a serious accident.
The point of the program was that the horses are not being sold as described. He was described as being 4, 100% safe to ride, drive and handle. He is none of that (opposite infact!) and if a novice had taken him on there could have been a serious accident.
horseandshoes77
Well-Known Member
If you look at their fb page and website they are clearly selling to the novice market...I know lots of novices who would believe everyword they said and buy without vetting, and tbf the dealer is clearly selling misdescribed horses (not just lame)
oh and im the biggest idiot iv got 3 none vetted...had one 13 years never had a vet bar injections one 5 years no bother and another whos nearly 12 she has the onset of arthritis and has had personality issues but tbh vetting is one day I doubt it would have made a diff !
Queenbee
Well-Known Member
I agree and was going to say exactly the same! they should have done a checklist for buying.
Lisa2manyponies
Well-Known Member
does anyone have the link to the iplayer for this program please ?
jrp204
Well-Known Member
Someone sold that coloured to the dealer, bet they knew its issues.
galaxy
Well-Known Member
No, they are not as described. But 4 years old + 100% safe just don't go together. They shouldn't be selling that and noone should think that a 4 year old can be that.
case895
Well-Known Member
I stand by my remark.
alfirules
Well-Known Member
I was thinking this, dealer bought the horses of someone, or probably got them for next to nothing. Its a shame that the original owners didn't except responsibility before sending them to a dealer!
The wife
Well-Known Member
Funny isn't it how Mr Thomas served time for tis thing before and yet York sales is willing allowing him to purchase Horses in his name and consequently sell them on... Silly silly girl for getting involved in a low life scum like him.
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Adopter
Well-Known Member
Redwings have posted on their Facebook page that both horses are doing well and they will put more information about them on their page next week.
Pearlsasinger
Up in the clouds
York sales can have no direct knowledge of what David Thomas is going to do with horses that he buys from there and it isn't up to them to police dealers. That is the job of Trading Standards. I have been aware for some time now that Kelly's Cobs was DT in yet another guise (as have several other people), so I'm not sure what TS are doing.
Annie0809
Member
People seem to put a lot or reliance on vetting. We (and other people) have had similar catastrophic experiences, despite having vetting done (another dealer with Cobs in the name - in the West Midlands).
Sold as the perfect ride for a 12 year old, bolted and trampled my daughter underfoot secnd time she rode him.
Seems to be legal protection agiinst dealers, we tried the court angle but as he was of no fixed abode (apparently) you cant enforce any court orders. Trading Standards uninterested.
It's buyer beware...
Sold as the perfect ride for a 12 year old, bolted and trampled my daughter underfoot secnd time she rode him.
Seems to be legal protection agiinst dealers, we tried the court angle but as he was of no fixed abode (apparently) you cant enforce any court orders. Trading Standards uninterested.
It's buyer beware...
be positive
Well-Known Member
Your experience sounds awful but it is probably something that could not have been picked up at vetting, the horses shown in WD were of a different age, which was picked up by vets, or lame, again immediately obvious, so the programme was flawed, that is not to say theses dealers are acting in anything other than their own interests and making money out of people that are inexperienced.
Annie0809
Member
Could do with a 'Tripadvisor' for Horse dealers, name and shame the bad guys and highlight the reputable ones.
You put any bad experiences on forums they get taken off for being slanderous...
You put any bad experiences on forums they get taken off for being slanderous...
Polos Mum
Well-Known Member
I think most people have recommended both a vetting and an independent second pair of experienced eyes - you need both really. I've owned horses for 20+ years, up to 5 at one point kept at home without issue. But I wouldn't go and buy a horse on my own - I don't know enough and I'd get to emotionally involved (can't imagine what it would be like shopping for a child - mine gets emotionally attached to toys in tesco!!)
If at pony suitable for a 12 year old behaves perfectly at 3 separate viewings when ridden by said child - at least twice out hacking(one roads and one fields) and then ideally in a strange environment, and vetting shows clean bloods (if there is a problem) you'd have been very very unlucky to have a problem.
Dealers rush people into snap decisions after 20 mins trial for something parents are trusting the lives of their children to! Sorry but for me if you can't get proper trials/ take time to handle in stable etc. then I'd just keep walking away - I suspect it'll take me a very long time to find ponys for my son when he's older!
If at pony suitable for a 12 year old behaves perfectly at 3 separate viewings when ridden by said child - at least twice out hacking(one roads and one fields) and then ideally in a strange environment, and vetting shows clean bloods (if there is a problem) you'd have been very very unlucky to have a problem.
Dealers rush people into snap decisions after 20 mins trial for something parents are trusting the lives of their children to! Sorry but for me if you can't get proper trials/ take time to handle in stable etc. then I'd just keep walking away - I suspect it'll take me a very long time to find ponys for my son when he's older!
MerrySherryRider
Well-Known Member
I'm always surprised that people with no experience go out and buy a horse.
Surely, before buying anything, -a car, a holiday, a house or a horse, you do some research and use an expert to guide you through the process.
No wonder these unscrupulous dealers are making money. As long as gullible people are happy to part with their money, horses will continue to suffer.
Surely, before buying anything, -a car, a holiday, a house or a horse, you do some research and use an expert to guide you through the process.
No wonder these unscrupulous dealers are making money. As long as gullible people are happy to part with their money, horses will continue to suffer.
Polos Mum
Well-Known Member
I can only imagine it's because they think they are saving money, 'the ad said perfect for novice at £1000' so why wouldn't that be true!!!
That's only c.30 lessons worth, and the 'experienced people' keep telling them it's not a good idea, they will only get what they pay for etc. so they get ignored.
I'm sure parents spend much longer deciding which pram to get their little ones, and their pram will NEVER get down and try and roll on them!!
Sorry if I'm ranting but a 4 y/o old pony for a child made me cross - a tiny bit of common sense would know that it's a bad idea - no matter what the person selling it says about how perfect it is - the TV was also miss leading last night saying 2.5 is a teenager - last time I checked ponys went through the teenager phase about 5/6 !!
FabioandFreddy
Well-Known Member
I definitely agree there should be a site where known dodgy dealers who change there name every other month to con new unsuspecting people can be named and shamed. Horse hunting is hard enough as it is! We can write bad reviews about restaurants, hotels etc, why not dealers?!
Missed Watchdog but will try and catch it later if its on iplayer.
Must say though, they might do a great write up on their ads, but you only have to watch one of the vids on the ads to see the horses aren't great and why they're so cheap.
Missed Watchdog but will try and catch it later if its on iplayer.
Must say though, they might do a great write up on their ads, but you only have to watch one of the vids on the ads to see the horses aren't great and why they're so cheap.
weebarney
Well-Known Member
Don't be so harsh on the new to horses people, as long as they take their horse to a livery yard where there are others to guide them then fair enough. I was a complete novice once, didnt know how to tack up so I fell off through not tightening the girth, thought the pony had been sick one day when it was just a bit mouth froth, turned him out in a stable rug and many other things. We never had a vetting or took anyone along as I guess we thought it would be like buying a dog but in our defence it was pre internet days so research was a bit limited.
They are placing their trust in these people who are supposed to be professional, they simply don't know to question it although I didnt much like the watchdog piece and thought the dealer came off looking pretty decent(whether he is or isnt is another matter).
They are placing their trust in these people who are supposed to be professional, they simply don't know to question it although I didnt much like the watchdog piece and thought the dealer came off looking pretty decent(whether he is or isnt is another matter).
Janeuk1
Member
Hi Everyone,
I was the first person on watchdog last night relating to Kelly's cobs and I want to clear a few things up as I'm getting really frustrated by some negative comments!
Firstly, I am not a novice. I went to kelly's cobs after a lot of travelling and viewing of horses - so many instances were sellers forget to mention before you travel that the horse has serious problems with their feet, has sarcoids, has had laminitis etc etc I had a few horses fail vettings also (£750 down the drain.. not to mention petrol costs and time).
I saw Monty for sale and thought he sounded like a good experienced horse for my daughter (who was 16 and been riding since 4 yrs) to start competing in local shows.
We drove almost 4 hours to get to Kellys cobs. Monty was tried and as I wanted another horse for myself to ride and for my husband to learn to ride on (he was a novice rider) I had a look what else was there and was talked in to trying out Ed.
Due to the lack of facilities available and the appalling weather on that day, it was difficult to assess the horses properly. The terms and conditions state if you are unhappy within two weeks you can return the horses. I decided to take up this option because It gave me the opportunity to try out the horse thoroughly before paying the £500 Vetting costs. I had the vetting booked in for 10 days after the start of the trial.
I found out about Monty's injury from a previous owner (not the one who sold him to kellys cobs) after writing to all owners listed on his passport (I wanted to know as much as possible about a horse we owned). I spoke to my vet regarding this and she advised that a horse who had suffered a serious sensory ligament injury is at high risk of suffering a reoccurance and shouldnt be used as a jumping horse. She also told me that this would probably NOT be easily identified in a vetting and would likely be missed!! I did offer to buy Monty for less money to keep as a light hacking horse because I felt sorry for him but David wouldnt agree to this and accused me of being dishonest! (I sent him Monty's old vet records and emails from his previous owners with further details of the injury)
Ed we found totally unsuitable for my husband as he bolted off when my husband became unbalance (as novice riders do).
So, no - i didnt have them vetted because I found out they were not suitable before I spent the money. When we returned the horses. I had a lot of problems getting my money returned.
Can I add - that we went on to buy a horse who passed a 5 stage vetting. The only issue was a "graze" on the horses withers which the vet accepted had been done by a rug. We bought the horse and later found the injury to the horses withers was caused by a broken saddle and was pretty bad - the horse couldnt be ridden for about 6 weeks...
sorry for the long post..
cheers
Jane
I was the first person on watchdog last night relating to Kelly's cobs and I want to clear a few things up as I'm getting really frustrated by some negative comments!
Firstly, I am not a novice. I went to kelly's cobs after a lot of travelling and viewing of horses - so many instances were sellers forget to mention before you travel that the horse has serious problems with their feet, has sarcoids, has had laminitis etc etc I had a few horses fail vettings also (£750 down the drain.. not to mention petrol costs and time).
I saw Monty for sale and thought he sounded like a good experienced horse for my daughter (who was 16 and been riding since 4 yrs) to start competing in local shows.
We drove almost 4 hours to get to Kellys cobs. Monty was tried and as I wanted another horse for myself to ride and for my husband to learn to ride on (he was a novice rider) I had a look what else was there and was talked in to trying out Ed.
Due to the lack of facilities available and the appalling weather on that day, it was difficult to assess the horses properly. The terms and conditions state if you are unhappy within two weeks you can return the horses. I decided to take up this option because It gave me the opportunity to try out the horse thoroughly before paying the £500 Vetting costs. I had the vetting booked in for 10 days after the start of the trial.
I found out about Monty's injury from a previous owner (not the one who sold him to kellys cobs) after writing to all owners listed on his passport (I wanted to know as much as possible about a horse we owned). I spoke to my vet regarding this and she advised that a horse who had suffered a serious sensory ligament injury is at high risk of suffering a reoccurance and shouldnt be used as a jumping horse. She also told me that this would probably NOT be easily identified in a vetting and would likely be missed!! I did offer to buy Monty for less money to keep as a light hacking horse because I felt sorry for him but David wouldnt agree to this and accused me of being dishonest! (I sent him Monty's old vet records and emails from his previous owners with further details of the injury)
Ed we found totally unsuitable for my husband as he bolted off when my husband became unbalance (as novice riders do).
So, no - i didnt have them vetted because I found out they were not suitable before I spent the money. When we returned the horses. I had a lot of problems getting my money returned.
Can I add - that we went on to buy a horse who passed a 5 stage vetting. The only issue was a "graze" on the horses withers which the vet accepted had been done by a rug. We bought the horse and later found the injury to the horses withers was caused by a broken saddle and was pretty bad - the horse couldnt be ridden for about 6 weeks...
sorry for the long post..
cheers
Jane
Polos Mum
Well-Known Member
I'm not meaning to be harsh - and I agree entirely if you have help to guide you your first horse will be a wonderful memory - none of us ever forget our first.
BUT - a 2 min conversation with a livery yard owner or riding instructor will let anyone know that buying a horse is a tricky business. Most people aren't car mechanics so wouldn't buy a second hand car without someone checking it over and having a poke at it's history with the text thingy the AA do. And a car doesn't have a personality or mind of it's own. If I saw an add for a BMW softop with 10,000 miles on the clock for £3,000 I'd know something was up - might not know what but my common sense would tell me to check it out before handing over my £s.
weebarney
Well-Known Member
wasnt meant at you just the people saying they are numpties etc.