Welcome to HHO Towing Clinic

[WelshTilly]

You folks are getting good at this

I might get made redundant soon

I think it was by sheer fluke whether I understand what I was saying and the reasons you mentioned is another matter!! That's why there will always be a need for you!!

 

[chestnuttyy]

Towing a single horse with a B licence (no B+E) can get tricky if looking for a 4X4 type of towing vehicle so perhaps these few suggestions might help

VEHICLE 'A' is a Nissan Xtrail 4X4 with these specifications/dimensions
Unladen/kerb = 1515
GVW = 2050
Towing = 2000

VEHICLE 'B' is a Kia Sportage AWD with these specifications/dimensions
Unladen/kerb = 1678
GVW = 2140
Towing = 1600

These 3 single horse trailers seem to be the most popular but there are others .....
1 - BATESON LIGHT HORSE TRAILER
2 - CHEVAL LIGHT HORSE TRAILER
3 - IFOR LIGHT HORSE TRAILER
As all these manufacturers are still in business then downplating any of those trailers is easy and usually free or very little cost - just call them to sort it

Set ups:-
A+1 = trailer downplated to 1450 leaves a load of 775 (or 1400 & 725)
A+2 = no downplating leaves a load of 745
A+3 = trailer downplated to 1450 leaves a load of 680 (or 1400 & 630)
B+1 = trailer downplated to 1360 leaves a load of 685 (or 1300 & 625)
B+2 = trailer downplated to 1360 leaves a load of 705 (or 1300 & 645)
B+3 = trailer downplated to 1360 leaves a load of 590 (or 1300 & 530)

Going for setup A+3

Do i need any form of special insurance for pulling a trailer with this setup?

 

[ROG]

Going for setup A+3

Do i need any form of special insurance for pulling a trailer with this setup?

Contact your current insurer

There is probably insurance for third party and fully comp so ask them

Might need special insurance for breakdown and horse recovery

There are a few threads in the lounge forum on these issues

 

[chestnuttyy]

Are you able to recommend any other vehicles that would be suitable for pulling an Ifor 401 on a B licence? I was looking at X-Trails but struggling to find many within budget (£3k).

Preferably want something fairly economical on fuel too

Thanks

 

[ROG]

Are you able to recommend any other vehicles that would be suitable for pulling an Ifor 401 on a B licence? I was looking at X-Trails but struggling to find many within budget (£3k).

Preferably want something fairly economical on fuel too

Thanks

Not my bag - I know virtually nothing about prices and the economics of vehicles

But I can drive them all very well

Suggest asking in the new lounge forum but stating the you need a vehicle with a maximum GVW of 2100 and a minimum kerbweight of 1400 so that you can tow a 1400 kgs trailer

 

[chestnuttyy]

What about a Toyota Rav 4 to pull an Ifor 401 (downplated to 1400KG)??

GVW: 1785KG
Max towing weight (braked): 1500KG
Minimum kerb weight: 1425

Or is this going too close to it's limits?

 

[ROG]

What about a Toyota Rav 4 to pull an Ifor 401 (downplated to 1400KG)??

GVW: 1785KG
Max towing weight (braked): 1500KG
Minimum kerb weight: 1425

Or is this going too close to it's limits?

Perfectly safe and legal

 

[Mince Pie]

1 - What licence they hold - B or BE

B

2 - Unladen/empty weight of the towing vehicle

1385kg

3 - GVW of the towing vehicle

1875kg (gross weight limit?)

4 - GTW and/or towing capacity of the towing vehicle

3495kg

5 - Plated MAM of the trailer or if no plate then the load rating on the tyres

1250kg

6 - Unladen/empty weight of the trailer "

500kg

Those with set ups that can be driven on a B licence what are you driving? Looking for n estate car that will tow an ancient pony Bahill trailer on short journeys only, be fairly economical and decent in snow. Previously using 2.5 legacy's but would prefer a diesel (and sadly can't afford a boxer diesel scooby!). Was thinking volvo?

 

[ROG]

1 - What licence they hold - B or BE = B
2 - Unladen/empty weight of the towing vehicle = 1385kg
3 - GVW of the towing vehicle = 1875kg (gross weight limit?)
4 - GTW and/or towing capacity of the towing vehicle = 3495kg
5 - Plated MAM of the trailer or if no plate then the load rating on the tyres = 1250kg

6 - Unladen/empty weight of the trailer = 500kg

Number 3, the GVW, is the gross weight limit or the maximum that the vehicle can weigh when fully loaded

I assume number 4 is the GTW and not the towing capacity?
If it is then there is likely to be a towing capacity of 1620 (3495-1875=1620) but that is not always the case

That is perfectly legal for B licence towing

Reasons it is legal -
The 1250 trailer MAM is not more than the vehicle unladen weight of 1385
The 1250 trailer MAM added to the vehicle GVW of 1875 is 3125 which is not more than 3500

Those with set ups that can be driven on a B licence what are you driving? Looking for n estate car that will tow an ancient pony Bahill trailer on short journeys only, be fairly economical and decent in snow. Previously using 2.5 legacy's but would prefer a diesel (and sadly can't afford a boxer diesel scooby!). Was thinking volvo?

What is the MAM of the Bayhill trailer?

I ask as most are not suitable for the B licence towing rules and they cannot be downplated because Bayhill no longer exists

 

[Mince Pie]

Without looking I would think no more than 1300 kg

 

[ROG]

Without looking I would think no more than 1300 kg

Seems a bit low - I would expect a MAM of over 2000 kgs

MAM means the maximum it can weigh when fully loaded

 

[Mince Pie]

Hmm just not sure, it is a tiny trailer and the only way I can use it is with no partition! I'll look when I'm at the yard tomorrow.

 

[zoon]

I have a 1993 Rice Europa trailer - no idea of the MAM I'm afraid, but it is in its original state. The new Europa has a gross weight of 2300kg according to the brochure. Not sure if this is the same thing or if my old trailer will be the same. I will only be towing 1 horse of about 500kg. I have 2 questions -

1 - is there such thing as a vehicle that will allow me to tow this on a B licence?

2 - is there a car that I can tow this with (on B or B+E)? Thinking volvo or similar as don't want a 4x4. But obviously want it to be legal and safe.

 

[ROG]

I have a 1993 Rice Europa trailer - no idea of the MAM I'm afraid, but it is in its original state. The new Europa has a gross weight of 2300kg according to the brochure. Not sure if this is the same thing or if my old trailer will be the same. I will only be towing 1 horse of about 500kg. I have 2 questions -

1 - is there such thing as a vehicle that will allow me to tow this on a B licence?

2 - is there a car that I can tow this with (on B or B+E)? Thinking volvo or similar as don't want a 4x4. But obviously want it to be legal and safe.

1 - no.
Assuming a MAM of 2300 then it would need downplating by the manufacturer to conform to B licence towing rules

2 - loads of cars can tow this on a B+E licence as the actual weight is going to be around 1500 kgs and many cars have towing capacities capable of that and more
Check out towing capacities here

 

[ROG]

Re your rice trailer - you may be lucky and get the current rice dealers to downplate it CONTACT RICE

It seems your rice trailer weighs about 750 kgs unladen (BUT DOUBLE CHECK THAT PLEASE) so if to can get rice to downplate it to say 1400 MAM then look for a car with these specs -

Maximum GVW 2100
Minimum Kerb 1400
Towing capacity at least 1400 (so the full trailer MAM of 1400 can be used)

If you can do all that then you can tow on a B licence

 

[ROG]

We have an Ifor Williams Hb406 and a Nissan navara

OH is the driver, we normally tow a 14.2 and a 12.1. Quite a lot of the time he sits beside me as I drive, he has passed towing test, I'm due to take mine this summer. My question is can I take the 12.1 out by himself. I have checked and checked the rule book that came with the trailer. I'm a competent trailer driver but obviously need to be legal. The rule book says drivers who passed since 1997 may also drive a car under 3.5 tonne plus a larger braked trailer provided the combo does not exceed 3.5 tonne and the trailer MAM is less than the unloaded weight of the tow car. Trailer would literally have small pony in it, car would just have me and my tack..

..yay, or nay?

First thing is - I cannot find a HB406 in the IFOR range of trailers so please could you check which one you have?

Secondly, there are many navara models but I'll use THIS ONE as it can be used for B licence towing with a decent one horse trailer
Kerb 1515
GVW 1975
towing 1700

If it is that model Navara then it requires a trailer 1500 plated MAM - maximum

I'm guessing you have a 2 horse trailer perhaps a HB506 which is 920 unlladen and 2600 MAM

If both vehicle and trailer are correct then you will need to contact Ifor Williams to have the trailer downplated from 2600 to 1500 and that will allow a payload for the horse of 580 kgs BUT you cannot then use it for two horses unless you get it up-plated again for B+E towing

 

[KidnapMoss]

Thank you ROG - really helpful. Yes its a HB506 (just checked our little owners pack,,,not sure where I got the 4 from, blonde moment methinks!)

Thanks again, will check with OH exactly which model our navara is.

What does down plating involve exactly?

 

[ROG]

What does down plating involve exactly?

Contact manufacturer of trailer with the trailer details handy and asking them to assist with reducing the trailer plated MAM

The manufacturer will then give you the info and direct you to their nearest dealer to yourself

You then take the trailer to that dealer and have a new plate made for it

This is usually free or for a very small admin cost

 

[Bramble74]

Hi Rog,

Wondering if you can help with a rather generic question...

I currently have Nissan Terrano 2.7td (GVW 2700) I tow a Cheval Liberty with one horse @ 460KG. As the cost of fuel is ever increasing, I would love to look at something a bit smaller.

Do you know of any model Toyota Rav 4 that is capable and legal for towing up to 2,000 KG? My friend has one and both her and her mechanic swear blind that it is able to do this, I cannot find any that give their specification at over 1,500 maximum braked weight.

Many thanks for any assistance you can give and I appreciate it's a vague question.

 

[ROG]

Hi Rog,

Wondering if you can help with a rather generic question...

I currently have Nissan Terrano 2.7td (GVW 2700) I tow a Cheval Liberty with one horse @ 460KG. As the cost of fuel is ever increasing, I would love to look at something a bit smaller.

Do you know of any model Toyota Rav 4 that is capable and legal for towing up to 2,000 KG? My friend has one and both her and her mechanic swear blind that it is able to do this, I cannot find any that give their specification at over 1,500 maximum braked weight.

Many thanks for any assistance you can give and I appreciate it's a vague question.

http://www.cuddles.abelgratis.net/toyota.htm#rav407

Toyota RAV4 XT-R 2.2 D-4D 5dr Dimensions
Weights & Capacities
Kerb Weight KG: 1,650
Gross Weight KG: 2,190
Towing Weight KG: 2,000

NOTE:- If the trailer was downplated to 1300 kgs leaving a load capacity of 645 for the horse then that would be legal for B licence towing

 

[KidnapMoss]

Contact manufacturer of trailer with the trailer details handy and asking them to assist with reducing the trailer plated MAM

The manufacturer will then give you the info and direct you to their nearest dealer to yourself

You then take the trailer to that dealer and have a new plate made for it

This is usually free or for a very small admin cost

Contacted the dealer we purchased said trailer from but they say it involves changing the hitch

Spoke to OH the navara weighs 2100kg unloaded that's the kerb weight?

So I'm guessing even with a teeny tiny 12.2 I need OH and his B&E licence?

Sorry for sounding so thick!!!

 

[ROG]

Contacted the dealer we purchased said trailer from but they say it involves changing the hitch

Spoke to OH the navara weighs 2100kg unloaded that's the kerb weight?

So I'm guessing even with a teeny tiny 12.2 I need OH and his B&E licence?

Sorry for sounding so thick!!!

I've no idea about the hitch - perhaps they could explain why - perhaps by email - idea?

Nissan Navara with 2100 kgs kerb weight and 3210 GVW plus 2600 towing capacity

Max towing weight on a B licence would be 750 kgs max so no good for any horse trailer

 

[Bramble74]

http://www.cuddles.abelgratis.net/toyota.htm#rav407

Toyota RAV4 XT-R 2.2 D-4D 5dr Dimensions
Weights & Capacities
Kerb Weight KG: 1,650
Gross Weight KG: 2,190
Towing Weight KG: 2,000

NOTE:- If the trailer was downplated to 1300 kgs leaving a load capacity of 645 for the horse then that would be legal for B licence towing

Thanks very much for this Rog, really helpful. I have a BE licence so am ok. Off to look for a Rav 4 dimension...

 

[ROG]

Thanks very much for this Rog, really helpful. I have a BE licence so am ok. Off to look for a Rav 4 dimension...

Try a google search for - TOYOTA RAV4 2.2 D-4D

They started to make them in 2007 so you might be able to pick up a decent used one

 

[ROG]

looking at getting an estate car to tow - is a merc c200 man enough for an ifor williams & a 400kg pony?

WHICH IS YOUR C200 ESTATE IN THIS LIST?
WHICH IFOR TRAILER IS IT FROM THIS LIST?
With that info I can help you

 

[maisie2011]

not sure which vehicle form the list - the advert says its a 1999 (t reg) C200 elegance estate auto and I have an Ifor Hunter trailer which I think is the same as the 505.

 

[ROG]

not sure which vehicle form the list - the advert says its a 1999 (t reg) C200 elegance estate auto and I have an Ifor Hunter trailer which I think is the same as the 505.

Having a hard time pinning down thw towing capacity for the Merc but found these two -
GVW & KERB for this one & KERB & TOWING CAPACITY for this one
So assuming they are correct then we have these specifications -
Kerb 1335 to 1350
GVW 1845 to 1900
Towing 1500

IFOR HB505 (HUNTER)
Unladen 905
MAM 2340

Pony weight 400 approx

ASSUMING all those vehicle weights are correct especially the 1500 towing capacity then loading the trailer with a 400 kg pony and few other bits will be around 1400 kgs so well within the vehicle 1500 towing capacity for which it has been designed to tow safely

This does require a B+E licence to tow it

With the trailer unladen weight being 905 then downplating it for B licence towing is too close to really bother with but could be done to 1330

 

[ROG]

I know I can read up on this but to be honest every time I have attempted to I have given up as I can't understand the jargon.

So, basically I have a standard license - passed my test in 1998 - not sure if that means anything.

Can I.... tow?

What is my weight limit? I would be driving a Freelander, mare weighs around 550kg - rough guess (I tend to manage her weight by eye - I know I should find out!)

I have no idea what other info you would need. I guess the type of trailer would come into play? I don't have one but I am thinking about it - maybe.

HELP!

YES you can tow on a B only licence but it requires the right vehicle and trailer combination to do so

Trailer plated MAM weights can be down plated to lower plated MAM weights by the trailer manufacturer simply by calling them and taking the trailer to a local dealer for very little or no cost so they comply with B licence towing for the vehicle being used
Trailer manufacturers do this all the time so your call will not surprise them.

I will need to know which Freelander it is because there are two with different weights
THIS FREELANDER MODEL newer than 2005
Gross Weight 2505 kg
Kerb Weight 1785 kg
Towing Limit (braked) 2000 kg
The Max plated trailer MAM with this model would be 995 kgs so no good for B licence towing as the lightest unladen horse trailer is 655 kgs and with a 550 kgs horse that adds up to 1205 kgs so way more than 995 kgs

OR THIS FREELANDER MODEL 2001 to 2005
Gross vehicle weight 2040 kg
Minimum kerb weight 1457 kg
Max towing weight (braked) 1800 kg
With this model you can have a trailer plated up to 1460 kgs MAM for towing with a B licence

Any of these three single horse trailers (there are others) can be used with the above Freelander for a 600+ kgs horse (550 kgs no problem) but a couple of them would need downplating and I would downplate those to 1450 or 1400 kgs MAM - many downplate to 1400 to be well inside the rules
BATESON LIGHT HORSE TRAILER
CHEVAL LIGHT HORSE TRAILER
IFOR LIGHT HORSE TRAILER

So now its up to you to provide the correct model of Freelander so you can decide if its possible for you to tow a single horse trailer on your B licence


NOTE:- There are some lightweight double horse trailers which could be downplated for B licence towing with a single horse in them but it gets a little tight on the weights

 

[Mongoose11]

Hi ROG,

Thanks so much for this! I have the 2005 Freelander so the second set of information would be right for me.

Ok, so I guess I need to think about saving up some pennies, persuading husband, working hard enough to warrant showing etc etc etc......

Gosh - is it all worth it

Really helpful stuff, I am going to have another look through and digest. But so that my little brain doesn't have to work it out myself...

Let's imagine I get a light, one horse trailer. What is the maximum weight my horse could be to legally tow?

Thanks again x

Also, I think I would rather buy a lighter double - resale would be easier I think. Could you recommend one that would fit with my numbers? Edited again as I see your links do provide a double!

 

[ROG]

Hi ROG,

Thanks so much for this! I have the 2005 Freelander so the second set of information would be right for me.

Ok, so I guess I need to think about saving up some pennies, persuading husband, working hard enough to warrant showing etc etc etc......

Gosh - is it all worth it

Really helpful stuff, I am going to have another look through and digest. But so that my little brain doesn't have to work it out myself...

Let's imagine I get a light, one horse trailer. What is the maximum weight my horse could be to legally tow?

Thanks again x

Also, I think I would rather buy a lighter double - resale would be easier I think. Could you recommend one that would fit with my numbers? Edited again as I see your links do provide a double!

Single horse trailers are fetching a premium these days due to the B licence towing rules so they are easier to find buyers for than doubles

2005 was the changeover year for Freelanders so double check which model you have please

The heaviest of those three single horse trailers when empty/unladen is 770 kgs so if it was that one downplated to 1400 then it can carry a horse weighing 630 kgs