Welcome to HHO Towing Clinic

[ROG]

Downplating double horse trailers for use with one horse for B licence towing gets tricky because of the weights involved

I'll use the common IFOR WILLIAMS HB505 as an example
Unladen weight 905 kgs
MAM 2340 kgs

Lets say that downplating it to 1400 kgs MAM is required for B licence towing
That only leaves 495 kgs for the horse and/or anything else that is needed to be loaded into the trailer

 

[ROG]

2005 was the changeover year for Freelanders so double check which model you have please

Check out THESE FREELANDERS which are for sale and click the DIMENSIONS tab for each one to see the differences in the GVWs etc

It could also depend on model and year

2005 with 2040 GVW

2005 with 2500 GVW

 

[chestnuttyy]

Hi, would this combo be legal on a B licence:

Ifor hb401
Suzuki grand vitara 1.6:
GVW: 1750kg
Max towing weight braked: 1600kg
Min kerb weight: 1270kg

 

[ROG]

Hi, would this combo be legal on a B licence:

Ifor hb401
Suzuki grand vitara 1.6:
GVW: 1750kg
Max towing weight braked: 1600kg
Min kerb weight: 1270kg

HB401
Unladen 770kg
MAM 1600

The trailer needs to be downplated to 1270 maximum MAM which will leave 500kgs for the load/horse

The reason for the dowplating is so that the trailer MAM is not more than the 1270 min kerb weight which is one of the rules for B licence towing

Call Ifor Williams and see if they will downplated it to 1270 because another on here said they have a 1400 downplate limit but that seems odd to me

 

[chestnuttyy]

Ahhh ok, of course! No downplating to 1400 is as low as I want to go as my boy is 500kg. Will keep thinking of what car to get!

 

[ROG]

Ahhh ok, of course! No downplating to 1400 is as low as I want to go as my boy is 500kg. Will keep thinking of what car to get!

Try googling this .... copy & paste the words below

4x4 kgs gvw 2100 kerb 1500 towing

Then have a click on some of the links

You are looking for GVW max 2100 and kerb min 1400 with a towing capacity of at least 1400

 

[chestnuttyy]

Try googling this .... copy & paste the words below

4x4 kgs gvw 2100 kerb 1500 towing

Then have a click on some of the links

You are looking for GVW max 2100 and kerb min 1400 with a towing capacity of at least 1400

Thanks Rog, will have a look.

Was gonna get a Freelander but now worried about them going wrong... then was looking at X-Trails but they seem to have issues with their turbos... now I don't really know what to look at! Don't have a very big budget

 

[D66]

ROG - Do you know about carriage extensions to trailer towbars? I have a Sinclair Challenger that I use without the central partition. It is old, but robust and well cared for, has just had a new floor. Do I have to use an extension that has been designed by the trailer manufacturer or could I have one designed by an engineer?
I don't want to sell the trailer unless I have to.

 

[ROG]

ROG - Do you know about carriage extensions to trailer towbars? I have a Sinclair Challenger that I use without the central partition. It is old, but robust and well cared for, has just had a new floor. Do I have to use an extension that has been designed by the trailer manufacturer or could I have one designed by an engineer?
I don't want to sell the trailer unless I have to.

I know nothing about them, what they do or how they affect the towing

Perhaps asking about them on the lounge forum will get some responses

 

[D66]

thanks ROG, will do.

 

[chestnuttyy]

me again!

I think I've got a combo that will be fine for a B licence... but just wanted to check!!

IFOR HB401 - plated to 1400kg
Freelander:

Gross vehicle weight 2080 kg
Max towing weight (braked) 1800 kg
Minimum kerb weight 1619 kg

hope I'm right!!!

 

[ROG]

me again!

I think I've got a combo that will be fine for a B licence... but just wanted to check!!

IFOR HB401 - plated to 1400kg
Freelander:

Gross vehicle weight 2080 kg
Max towing weight (braked) 1800 kg
Minimum kerb weight 1619 kg

hope I'm right!!!

You are right - PERFECT


PS - glad you found an early freelander because the later models have a GVW of over 2500 kgs !!

 

[Javabb94]

So if you have a B licence do you automatically have a B+E provisional?

This would be useful for me as dad is not Always available to tow and mum doesn't like it! She has a pre 97 licence so would that be ok to sit in with me?

We have an Ifor HB506 2011 model
A Kia Sorrento 54 plate and I only take 1 500kg horse

Would this be legal?
Thanks

 

[ROG]

Q1 - So if you have a B licence do you automatically have a B+E provisional?

Q2 - This would be useful for me as dad is not Always available to tow and mum doesn't like it! She has a pre 97 licence so would that be ok to sit in with me?

Q3 - We have an Ifor HB506 2011 model
A Kia Sorrento 54 plate and I only take 1 500kg horse

Q4 - Would this be legal?
Thanks

A1 - Yes

A2 - Yes

A3 -
KIA SORENTO DIMENSIONS
Kerb 2059
GVW 2600
Towing 2800

HB506
Unladen 920
MAM 2600

A4 - Yes for B+E licence rules

 

[Javabb94]

A1 - Yes

A2 - Yes

A3 -
KIA SORENTO DIMENSIONS
Kerb 2059
GVW 2600
Towing 2800

HB506
Unladen 920
MAM 2600

A4 - Yes for B+E licence rules

thanks ROG!
I take it this combo wouldnt be legal on a B license only? I always have someone with me at shows so its ok
thanks again

 

[ROG]

thanks ROG!
I take it this combo wouldnt be legal on a B license only?

You are correct - On a B only licence the maximum trailer MAM would be 900 kgs because of the high vehicle GVW of 2600

 

[ROG]

I am new to trailers and 4X4s....Can I ask you to do the math for me as I struggle with numbers?

My car = 2004, 2.2ll, Tdi, Xtrail
Trailer = 2004, IW401 (no front ramp).
Horse = 650kg

I was pleasantly surprised how easily she tows as I was a bit dubious (being a bit of a Landi person). Is she at her limit already, or would she be capable of towing two horses?

The IFOR HB401 is a single horse trailer
Unladen 770
MAM 1600

the nearest Nissan Xtrail I could find had these specs
Kerb 1525
GVW 2050
Towing capacity 2000

On a B licence the trailer would need downplating to 1450 max which allows for a horse of 680 max

On a B+E licence the trailer would not need downplating and you could have a 2 horse trailer but the unladen weight of that trailer plus the weight of the two horses cannot be more than 2000 (the towing capacity) - you can have a trailer with a greater MAM than the towing capacity but will still be restricted by the towing capacity (actual weight)

 

[Oberon]

I passed my test in 1995.

Does that make a difference?

So what you are saying is that I am OK with the current set up, but a double trailer and two horses would be pushing it?

 

[ROG]

I passed my test in 1995.

Does that make a difference?

So what you are saying is that I am OK with the current set up, but a double trailer and two horses would be pushing it?

pre 1997 means you have a B+E licence

Two horse trailers are about 900 kgs unladen and about 2400 kgs MAM
Horses are approx 500 kgs
So with two horses that is about 1900 kgs which is fine for the MAM but tight for a 2000 kgs towing capacity

With two horses at 550 kgs then not a thing could be loaded with them if 2000 towing capacity

 

[Oberon]

pre 1997 means you have a B+E licence

Two horse trailers are about 900 kgs unladen and about 2400 kgs MAM
Horses are approx 500 kgs
So with two horses that is about 1900 kgs which is fine for the MAM but tight for a 2000 kgs towing capacity

With two horses at 550 kgs then not a thing could be loaded with them if 2000 towing capacity

What's MAM?

 

[ROG]

What's MAM?

MAM or GVW are what the trailer or vehicle can weigh when fully loaded

 

[Oberon]

MAM or GVW are what the trailer or vehicle can weigh when fully loaded

Sorry. I understand GVW

Thank you very much for your help.

I didn't know this clinic existed.

 

[ROG]

Sorry. I understand GVW

Thank you very much for your help.

I didn't know this clinic existed.

If we all knew everything then life would be boring!!

There were too many stickies in the new lounge forum for it to be in there

 

[ROG]

hi all . i have been doing a lot of research as ive decided to get some form of transport. ive gone against the idea of a 3.5t as it was to expensive to insure me as im 21 and to be quite frank it was quite an expensive route.
I have found a single cheval liberte which is lightweight and i have a 16.0hh TB to travel . as these trailers arnt heavy they can be towed with a estate car however im thinking about getting a kia sportage as my uncle has one for sale and its a great runner .
does any one have a kia sportage they tow with~? i'd only be going to local shows and maby once in a blue moon down the motorway?
thanks!!

Towing with this set up on a B licence -

CHEVAL LIGHT HORSE TRAILER
Unladen 655
MAM 1400

Contact trailer manufacturer to have trailer downplated if needed (free or very little cost)


Kia Sportage (AWD) with these specifications/dimensions
Unladen/kerb = 1678
GVW = 2140
Towing = 1600
Max trailer plated MAM = 1360 kgs

Before taking this answer as correct please obtain the specifications for the Sportage you are thinking of getting

 

[ROG]

I am currently looking for a trailor I will only ever be towing 1 horse but I do not really want a single trailor... I am trying to get a trailor which is really leight so i do not go over the 3.5tonne rule after lots of research i have worked out the if weight of my car horse and trailor can reach below 3.5tonne i do not have to take my trailor test..

MY HORSE IS 17HH BUT SLIGHT BUILD PLEASE ANY ADVICE ON THE LIGHEST TRAILOR WOULD BE VERY HELPFULL.....


Thanks Sam

BATESON 2 HORSE TRAILER
7 foot headroom
Unladen 675 kgs
MAM 1700

Suggest contacting Bateson and have MAM reduced to 1400 for B towing rules BUT that depends on what vehicle you are towing it with

IMPORTANT QUESTION - what are the specifications/weight dimensions for your vehicle? - in KGs please
Kerb weight ?
GVW ?
Towing capacity ?



If you are intent on doing the B+E then this may be useful -

SUPERVISING A B+E LEARNER
In April 2010 new rules were introduced for those supervising certain learner drivers but they only affected those supervising VOCATIONAL categories such as C1 C1+E D1 & D1+E where the supervising driver had those categories given to them for free when they passed a pre 1997 car test.
They do not affect those with a pre 1997 B+E licence who wish to supervise a B+E learner.
All B licence holders have B+E provisional on the paper part of their licence and can tow an empty or loaded trailer on all roads including motorways.
The usual rules apply when a learner is driving -
The supervising driver must be aged over 21
The supervising driver must have held a B+E licence for at least 3 years
L plates must be fitted to the front of the vehicle and the rear of the trailer
Correct insurance for a B+E learner

Many will find that passing the once in a lifetime B+E test is their best option so here is some info on that test:-

The B+E test
No medical or theory test required
Read a number plate from a certain distance
VIDEO - Show Me Tell Me Questions - usually 5
The next three can be in any order:-
VIDEO - Reversing Exercise (old measurements) - done in test centre grounds if test conducted from practical test centre - some tests are now being done from training school grounds
VIDEO - Uncouple/couple up - done in test centre grounds if test conducted from practical test centre - some tests are now being done from training school grounds
One hour road drive - includes the independent drive and is done virtually the same as the basic car test

DISCLAIMER - I have no connection to any companies which may be featured in those videos

 

[* TEAM SAM *]

Hi which bateson is that?

Weight:2170 kg (4760,08 pounds)

Towing weight:2300 kg (5045,25 pounds)

 

[* TEAM SAM *]

Hi which bateson is that?

Weight:2170 kg (4760,08 pounds)

Towing weight:2300 kg (5045,25 pounds)

sorry i have a bmw x5

 

[ROG]

wow great so i just need to post on there or can you do it here im abit confused on how i find out all those weights

my horse is 500kg
car is x5 55 plate
and at the moment i have use of a 505 ifor williams

Thanks Sam

IFOR HB505
Unladen 905
MAM 2340

So many BMW X5 models that I need to narrow it down please

So far this is illegal for B licence towing due to the high trailer MAM

 

[ROG]

Hi which bateson is that?

Weight:2170 kg (4760,08 pounds)

Towing weight:2300 kg (5045,25 pounds)

Sorry Sam you have lost me with those figures

What are they refering to please?

 

[* TEAM SAM *]

is this because of ifor williams

it is x5 sport 3.0d 55 plate