Welcome to HHO Towing Clinic

[ROG]

Hi,
I'm getting my first tow car soon. One of the smaller 4x4s (Skoda Yeti), as the big gas guzzlers just don't make economic sense as a company car. I only want to tow one horse, but will probably get a double trailer - partly I don't like the look of singles, and partly for the option of taking another small horse occassionally, or just putting t'other half's bike in!

Maximum towing weight of car is 2000kg.

So far I've narrowed it down to Cheval Liberte (newish with aluminium floor) or Equitrek Trail Treka M. I like the Cheval because they seem to get great reviews, and I like the idea of the posh suspension. But they do travel rearwards in the Equitrek, which I know is better.

Any opinions on these two?

Skoda Yeti SE 2.0 TDI CR 4x4 5dr 2.0
Kerb 1530
GVW 2070
Towing capacity 2000
Trail Treka 'M' 2 horses up to 16.2 hh
Unladen 880
MAM 2000

Towing on a B only licence would mean downplating the trailer from 2000 to 1430 so only allowing a load/horse weight of 550 kgs

Towing on a B+E licence would allow for a load/horse weight of 1120 kgs

Same towing vehicle with a Cheval GT2 Double Horse Trailer
Unladen 780
MAM 2000

Towing on a B only licence would mean downplating the trailer from 2000 to 1430 so only allowing a load/horse weight of 650 kgs

Towing on a B+E licence would allow for a load/horse weight of 1220 kgs

 

[ROG]

Thanks, looking at the questions there, these would be my answers:-

-
1 - What licence they hold - B or BE
B+E
2 - Unladen/empty weight of the towing vehicle
1455 (kerb weight), 2075 (total weight - to incl driver & kit)
3 - GVW of the towing vehicle
Like you, not sure what this means!
4 - GTW and/or towing capacity of the towing vehicle
2000kg
5 - Plated MAM of the trailer or if no plate then the load rating on the tyres
2000kg
6 - Unladen/empty weight of the trailer "
840kg (Cheval) 880kg (Equitrek)

Total weight of trailer & horse
1350kg or 1390kg

GVW means the maximum the vehicle can weigh when fully loaded
MAM means the maximum the trailer can weigh when fully loaded

As you have a B+E licence then the LOWER of these weights is the one to go by
The vehicle towing capacity
The trailer MAM

Take the LOWER of those weights and deduct the trailer unladen weight and you are left with the weight which can be loaded into the trailer

 

[ROG]

I have a Lexus RX400h which I have had for a few years now. I now want to buy a trailer to carry my 15.1hh, 430kg horse. I am having great difficulty in finding a trailer because the Lexus is a hybrid and the maximum nose weight it can take is 80kg. The maximum towing weight is 2000kg. Very few trailer manufacturers give nose weights and no one seems to know what will happen when you load a horse onto the trailer. Help!

GENERAL INFO ABOUT NOSE WEIGHTS

THIS VOLVO HAD THE SAME PROBS - WORTH A READ THROUGH THIS THREAD

LEXUS 400h DIMENSIONS
Kerb 2000
GVW 2505
Towing 2000

This requires a B+E licence because the high GVW leaves only 995 kgs max trailer MAM for B licence towing

BATESON LIGHT HORSE TRAILER
CHEVAL LIGHT HORSE TRAILER
IFOR LIGHT HORSE TRAILER
I would suggest contacting the manufacturers of the above trailers as asking their advice in regards to noseweights

 

[ROG]

Lexus RX400h has a towing nose wheel weight limit of 80Kg
See post 17 in that thread form the LEXUS forum

My google search on this issue

 

[Rach_W]

This thread is great, I have read carefully through and think I have worked out when I will be legal and illegal and what I need to do but would be grateful for confirmation. I will do my test as soon as possible but want to be legal in the meantime!

1 - What licence they hold - B or BE B
2 - Unladen/empty weight of the towing vehicle: 1890
3 - GVW of the towing vehicle 2510
4 - GTW and/or towing capacity of the towing vehicle 2500
5 - Plated MAM of the trailer or if no plate then the load
rating on the tyres 2700
6 - Unladen/empty weight of the trailer " 1000

My understanding is that at the moment this would be illegal on both a B and a B+E owing to the towing capacity of the vehicle being under what the vehicle can tow.

So, to tow on a B, I would need to have the trailer re-plated to 1610, which means I could only have 610kg on the trailer. If this is correct, then I would only be towing one horse and don't think she exceeds this. Does tack etc in the car count? or only things in the trailer?

To tow on B+E, I would need to have the trailer plated to 2500 to match the car's towing capacity? or is it not that simple??

Any clarification on this would be gratefully received!

 

[ROG]

1 - What licence they hold B
2 - Unladen/empty weight of the towing vehicle: 1890
3 - GVW of the towing vehicle 2510
4 - towing capacity of the towing vehicle 2500
5 - Plated MAM of the trailer 2700
6 - Unladen/empty weight of the trailer 1000

Guessing trailer is a HB511 and car is KIA SORENTO

So, to tow on a B, I would need to have the trailer re-plated to 1610, which means I could only have 610kg on the trailer. If this is correct, then I would only be towing one horse and don't think she exceeds this. Does tack etc in the car count? or only things in the trailer?

With the vehicle having a GVW of 2510 then the maximum trailer MAM for B licence towing is 990 kgs and no horse trailer carrying a a horse over 340 kgs is going to be able to work with that little MAM
B licence towing with this vehicle is not going to work

3500 MAM/GVW is the limit for B licence towing so the math is 3500-2510=990
At the pesent time the math is 2510+2700=5210

ADD - EDIT -
Just noticed that you added the kerb weight of 1890 to 1610 making 3500 when the GVW of 2510 should be used

My understanding is that at the moment this would be illegal on both a B and a B+E owing to the towing capacity of the vehicle being under what the vehicle can tow.

To tow on B+E, I would need to have the trailer plated to 2500 to match the car's towing capacity? or is it not that simple??

No necessary to do that

There is no law or rule which states that having a trailer plated MAM more than the manufacturers listed towing capacity is illegal for either B or B+E licence towing

When working out how much weight can be put in the trailer then take the LOWER weight of either the trailer MAM or towing capacity and deduct the trailer unladen weight = the load/horse weight

A trailer only needs downplating for B licence towing or to keep it out of commercial tacho/O-licence regs

 

[Beanz]

GENERAL INFO ABOUT NOSE WEIGHTS

THIS VOLVO HAD THE SAME PROBS - WORTH A READ THROUGH THIS THREAD

LEXUS 400h DIMENSIONS
Kerb 2000
GVW 2505
Towing 2000

This requires a B+E licence because the high GVW leaves only 995 kgs max trailer MAM for B licence towing

BATESON LIGHT HORSE TRAILER
CHEVAL LIGHT HORSE TRAILER
IFOR LIGHT HORSE TRAILER
I would suggest contacting the manufacturers of the above trailers as asking their advice in regards to noseweights

Thanks Rog, I have contacted the dealers to see what they come up with, Karen

 

[Rach_W]

Guessing trailer is a HB511 and car is KIA SORENTO

Ha ha, good guess on the car! The tralier is a HB510 but I found the figure by Googling it, so it may not be accurate. I will double check what the trailer states tonight, although it doesn't sound as though it will make a difference given the weight of the car.

Thanks for the clarification on that. Glad I checked whether it could be legal on a B licence before changing the plating and still being illegal!

Guess I'd better book some lessons and pass my test before the new car arrives! My OH will have to come with me in the meantime!

Thanks for your help

Rachel

 

[ROG]

Ha ha, good guess on the car! The tralier is a HB510 but I found the figure by Googling it, so it may not be accurate. I will double check what the trailer states tonight, although it doesn't sound as though it will make a difference given the weight of the car.

Thanks for the clarification on that. Glad I checked whether it could be legal on a B licence before changing the plating and still being illegal!

Guess I'd better book some lessons and pass my test before the new car arrives! My OH will have to come with me in the meantime!

Thanks for your help

Rachel

HB510PECS
Unladen 1000
MAM 2584

SUPERVISING A B+E LEARNER
In April 2010 new rules were introduced for those supervising certain learner drivers but they only affected those supervising VOCATIONAL categories such as C1 C1+E D1 & D1+E where the supervising driver had those categories given to them for free when they passed a pre 1997 car test.
They do not affect those with a pre 1997 B+E licence who wish to supervise a B+E learner.
All B licence holders have B+E provisional on the paper part of their licence and can tow an empty or loaded trailer on all roads including motorways.
The usual rules apply when a learner is driving -
The supervising driver must be aged over 21
The supervising driver must have held a B+E licence for at least 3 years
L plates must be fitted to the front of the vehicle and the rear of the trailer
Correct insurance for a B+E learner

Many will find that passing the once in a lifetime B+E test is their best option so here is some info on that test:-

The B+E test
No medical or theory test required
Read a number plate from a certain distance
VIDEO - Show Me Tell Me Questions - usually 5
The next three can be in any order:-
VIDEO - Reversing Exercise (old measurements) - done in test centre grounds if test conducted from practical test centre - some tests are now being done from training school grounds
VIDEO - Uncouple/couple up - done in test centre grounds if test conducted from practical test centre - some tests are now being done from training school grounds
One hour road drive - includes the independent drive and is done virtually the same as the basic car test

DISCLAIMER - I have no connection to any companies which may be featured in those videos

 

[Rach_W]

Thanks ROG. My OH did his test just before 1997 (lucky thing) and I was just after, so he should be fine.

1 hour drive sounds a bit terrifying, I don't even remember the driving test being that long. I will start practising driving properly at all times!!

 

[Shelbyhound]

Dear ROG

Please could you help me clarify the weight that I can legally tow?

1 - What licence they hold - B+E
2 - Unladen/empty weight of the towing vehicle - 2050kg (LWB Shogun 2.8l, S reg)
3 - GVW of the towing vehicle - 2820kg
4 - GTW and/or towing capacity of the towing vehicle - 3300kg
5 - Plated MAM of the trailer 2300kg (Bateson Deauville)
6 - Unladen/empty weight of the trailer - 860kg

I am confused by the 80% of kerb weight of car idea and would like to know whether I can tow two horses or just one.

Thank you in advance.

 

[ROG]

Dear ROG

Please could you help me clarify the weight that I can legally tow?

1 - What licence they hold - B+E
2 - Unladen/empty weight of the towing vehicle - 2050kg (LWB Shogun 2.8l, S reg)
3 - GVW of the towing vehicle - 2820kg
4 - towing capacity of the towing vehicle - 3300kg
5 - Plated MAM of the trailer 2300kg (Bateson Deauville)
6 - Unladen/empty weight of the trailer - 860kg

I am confused by the 80% of kerb weight of car idea and would like to know whether I can tow two horses or just one.

Thank you in advance.

The 85% of kerb weight is for newbie caravanners only so ignore that completely

As the lower of numbers 4 & 5 is 2300 kg then deduct 860 kg from that and it leaves 1440 kgs for the load/horse

Thats it for a B+E licence

OH ...... WELCOME

 

[Shelbyhound]

Dear ROG

Thank you very much, I've agonised over that for 2 years! Now I can go hacking with my friends.

 

[welshcobmad]

Just after a few tips & what to expect!

Passed my trailer test a few weeks ago (woop!) & am picking up an Ifor 511 we have hired for 3 months over summer next Wednesday.

As much as I've passed my test, done loads of practice with a box trailer & taken a horse box out, next Friday will be my first time out fully loaded!

I have a manual 2.7 SWB Nissan Terrano which I have been told is fine towing a max of 2800kg, the unladen Ifor is 1000kg & we will have a 15.2hh 550kg Cob & 17.2hh 650kg TB on board, plus 3 people & tack so should be nicely within limits. We dont need to take water as theres a supply on site.

Hoping to be able to take at least one horse for a spin if not 2 around the block locally on the Wednesday night just to give me a feel for it, but apart from what I've been told - braking a lot sooner, gentler acceleration & braking, lower gears & the sensation of being pushed downhill by the weight behind, are there any other tips you can give me with having the horses actually on board?

We are going about 25 miles in each direction on the Friday but luckily all good roads & mostly dual carriageway, going to give ourselves loads of time to trundle up.

I'm a steady, confident & calm driver so no problem there, I'm not going to go & panic or flap, just want to be as prepared as possible

Oh & am I fine towing in 2wd? I have 2 friends both with Terranos & the one tows everywhere when loaded in 4wd & the other just uses it for extra oompf on hill starts & across grass. I'm inclined to say I'm fine in 2wd but would like some confirmation! I've always been told driving in 4wd on a grippy surface will give you transmission wind up!

Sorry for all the questions! Thank you!!!

 

[ROG]

You seem to have everything planned out well including the weights so the only thing to say is ...... ENJOY YOURSELF

 

[ROG]

So hubby is buying a mitsubishi l200 that has a plated towing weight upto 3.5tn. I am looking to take my trailer test so i can get a trailer and take myself off to places.

MITSI L200 click drop down menu for various models and then click the weights tab

Due to the hugh GVW of these vehicles then the max trailer MAM weight would be 750 kgs

Any sort of horse trailer would require the driver to be driving under B+E licence rules

SUPERVISING A B+E LEARNER
In April 2010 new rules were introduced for those supervising certain learner drivers but they only affected those supervising VOCATIONAL categories such as C1 C1+E D1 & D1+E where the supervising driver had those categories given to them for free when they passed a pre 1997 car test.
They do not affect those with a pre 1997 B+E licence who wish to supervise a B+E learner.
All B licence holders have B+E provisional on the paper part of their licence and can tow an empty or loaded trailer on all roads including motorways.
The usual rules apply when a learner is driving -
The supervising driver must be aged over 21
The supervising driver must have held a B+E licence for at least 3 years
L plates must be fitted to the front of the vehicle and the rear of the trailer
Correct insurance for a B+E learner

Many will find that passing the once in a lifetime B+E test is their best option so here is some info on that test:-

The B+E test
No medical or theory test required
Read a number plate from a certain distance
VIDEO - Show Me Tell Me Questions - usually 5
The next three can be in any order:-
VIDEO - Reversing Exercise (old measurements) - done in test centre grounds if test conducted from practical test centre - some tests are now being done from training school grounds
VIDEO - Uncouple/couple up - done in test centre grounds if test conducted from practical test centre - some tests are now being done from training school grounds
One hour road drive - includes the independent drive and is done virtually the same as the basic car test
DSA B+E TEST AND VEHICLE/TRAILER REQUIREMENTS

DISCLAIMER - I have no connection to any companies which may be featured in those videos

 

[ROG]

we have an ifor Williams 505, towing just Donovan, a 13.2 hh welsh. At the moment we are using a discovery which obviously no problem, but its a company car, that is getting old, and I have a feeling we are going to be looking for a new one! My car is a renault scenic. Would that be ok to tow with?

SCENIC TOWING CAPACITIES
Max towing capacity seems to be 1300 kgs for all models

One Scenic has these specs
Kerb Vehicle Weight (kg) 1430
Gross Vehicle Weight (kg) 2153
Braked Maximum Towing Weight (kg) 1300

The HB505 has these specs
unladen 905
MAM 2340

For towing on a B licence the trailer would need downplating to 1300
For towing on either a B or B+E licence the maximum that can be loaded into the trailer is only 395 kgs !! 1300-905=395

 

[Orchardbeck]

Hi ROG

I hope I have these figures right but I'm not 100%

1 B licence with provisional b+e
2 peugeot 5008, 1750kg
3 2310kg
4 (i'm not so sure of this but I think it is) 1500kg
5 ifor Williams 506 - 2600kg
6 920kg

Can I downplate my trailer as I only carry 1 415kg pony?

Thanks

 

[ROG]

Hi ROG

I hope I have these figures right but I'm not 100%

1 B licence with provisional b+e
2 peugeot 5008, 1750kg
3 2310kg
4 (i'm not so sure of this but I think it is) 1500kg
5 ifor Williams 506 - 2600kg
6 920kg

Can I downplate my trailer as I only carry 1 415kg pony?

Thanks

YOUR VEHICLE SPECS
YOUR TRAILER SPECS

For B licence rules =
With a vehicle GVW of 2310 that only leaves a max trailer MAM of 1190 so downplating the trailer you have to that would only leave 270 for the load/horse
You would need a lightweight one horse trailer plated to 1190 which if about 700 unladen would leave 490 for the load/horse

For B+E licence rules =
Max load/horse for trailer would be 580 (1500-920=580)
No need to downplate for B+E

 

[Orchardbeck]

Thanks, I thought that might have been the case, I thought for a second you were going to tell me different! So if we used a bigger vehicle, eg a Nissan Navara would that give me more or less of an allowance?

 

[ROG]

Thanks, I thought that might have been the case, I thought for a second you were going to tell me different! So if we used a bigger vehicle, eg a Nissan Navara would that give me more or less of an allowance?

The higher the GVW of the towing vehicle the less MAM there is available for the trailer for B licence towing

 

[Orchardbeck]

ROG, going back to this if you don't mind, could I give you another set of figures for a different vehicle that seems to be lighter in weight than the previous one?

So
1 - b
2- nissan navara 2.5 dci 4x4 d/cab, 2006 reg -licencing mass 1962kg (I'm not sure on this one)
3 - 843kg (?)
4 2805kg
5 - ifor 506, 2600kg
6 - 920kg

I'm not sure about some of the stats i've given you - are you able to make anything from them? Thank you very much.

 

[ROG]

ROG, going back to this if you don't mind, could I give you another set of figures for a different vehicle that seems to be lighter in weight than the previous one?

So
1 - b
2- nissan navara 2.5 dci 4x4 d/cab, 2006 reg -licencing mass 1962kg (I'm not sure on this one)
3 - 843kg (?)
4 2805kg
5 - ifor 506, 2600kg
6 - 920kg

I'm not sure about some of the stats i've given you - are you able to make anything from them? Thank you very much.

THIS MODEL NISSAN?
Kerb 2113
GVW 3210
Towing 2600

I need not go any further because the GVW of 3210 means the max trailer MAM for B licence towing is only 750 kgs

If your GVW figure of 2805 is correct then that only leaves a max trailer MAM of 750 kgs

You need a different vehicle and trailer set up for B licence towing but you can tow this under B+E provisional rules - you already have that provisional

 

[chestnuttyy]

Me again! Just asked Ifor Williams to send a new plate and just wanted to triple check the following is legal on a b licence

Freelander:
GVW: 2080kg
Min kerb: 1619kg
New plated trailer weight: 1420kg

Pleeeeease tell me I got this right?!

 

[ROG]

Me again! Just asked Ifor Williams to send a new plate and just wanted to triple check the following is legal on a b licence

Freelander:
GVW: 2080kg
Min kerb: 1619kg
New plated trailer weight: 1420kg

Pleeeeease tell me I got this right?!

YES YOU HAVE

I know the freelander 1 has a towing capacity of 1800 so that will be ok too

The weight which you can load into the trailer will be 1420 minus the trailer unladen weight but if you think the trailer plus load gets close to 1420 then take to a weighbridge to find out for sure

Legal to go directly to and from a weighbridge if overloaded unless its way over the top and considered dangerous

 

[chestnuttyy]

Wahoooo I shall be mobile at last!! Ned only weighs 500kg and trailer is 770kg unladen so as long as I don't take much with me we should be fine

 

[ROG]

Would love some advice please!

I love my 3.5 ton Marlborough Hunter horsebox and so does my horse, but would like to occasionally be able to stay away at shows in reasonable comfort. Where I live it is at least two and a half hours to every show, so I'd rather not have the expense of running a bigger lorry all the time when I'm just off for the day.

I see Equitrek are bringing out a mini caravan to tow behind their small vans and this kind of thing would probably suit me, provided I can be sure my set up is safe and legal.

So question is: what weight of caravan can I tow? and what do I need to watch out for? Being ancient, I have grandfather rights to tow with a car, I believe!

Thanks, I can't find the information anywhere on the web so your advice would be much appreciated.

Equi-Trek Trek-Away 750 kgs living

This would be legal to tow on a B (no B+E) licence
The reason is that a B licence can drive a 3.5 tonne vehicle with a maximum MAM/MTPLM trailer of 750 kgs

On a B+E licence which I believe you said you have (before 1997) then you can tow up to a 3500kgs MAM/MTPLM trailer/caravan BUT .... you would be restricted by any towing capacity and/or GTW listed for the vehicle

PS - I am calling Jim Wilson of Marlborough horseboxes to find out the towing specs for the hunter 01772 812780

 

[* TEAM SAM *]

Equi-Trek Trek-Away 750 kgs living

This would be legal to tow on a B (no B+E) licence
The reason is that a B licence can drive a 3.5 tonne vehicle with a maximum MAM/MTPLM trailer of 750 kgs

On a B+E licence which I believe you said you have (before 1997) then you can tow up to a 3500kgs MAM/MTPLM trailer/caravan BUT .... you would be restricted by any towing capacity and/or GTW listed for the vehicle

PS - I am calling Jim Wilson of Marlborough horseboxes to find out the towing specs for the hunter 01772 812780

omg confused now.......

 

[ROG]

Re last post - Jim found me the GTW figure

The GTW of the Hunter horsebox is 5500 kgs
The GVW is 3500 kgs
At the moment I have no manufacturers towing capacity but it will be at least 2000 kgs

This means it can tow 2000kgs actual weight (at least) so we will go by that figure
If the horsebox actually weighed 3500 then 2000 would be the max for towing under GTW rules

FOR YOUR SITUATION -
As it seems you have a B+E then you can tow a caravan behind it which must not actually weight more than 2000 kgs when loaded but it can have a MTPLM of up to 3500 kgs

 

[ROG]

omg confused now.......

Can I help with your confusion?