Welcome to HHO Towing Clinic

[ROG]

Think I've worked it out, the gvw is 2050kg (will check tomorrow) so if I down plate the trailer to 1400kg I should be within the 3.5t limit also under the kerb weight of car which I think is 1500kg Will go to a weighbridge to check we are within the limit too. Is the 2t tow capacity relevant under this law too? Argh so confusing!!

towing capacity simply refers to the max actual weight the vehicle can tow

Still no good with that Bayhill trailer

2050 GVW means something like a HB401/3 which weighs max 800 empty and plated at 1600 can be down plated to 1400 for fifty quid and leaves 600+ for the horse

 

[Spudpud]

Hi, I started a separate thread as I'm not sure if it's quite relevant to your clinic but I would appreciate any views you may have on trailers on the market please, new/secondhand for ride comfort for the horse, build quality, suspension/towing, value for money. One horse, 16.1 b&e license, hilux to tow with. Thank you vey much.

 

[ROG]

Hi, I started a separate thread as I'm not sure if it's quite relevant to your clinic but I would appreciate any views you may have on trailers on the market please, new/secondhand for ride comfort for the horse, build quality, suspension/towing, value for money. One horse, 16.1 b&e license, hilux to tow with. Thank you vey much.

Its relevant as its trailer related but unfortunately I have no knowledge in this field

 

[Janee]

Sorry if this has been asked, explained before, what do you mean by "down plated" ?

 

[ROG]

Sorry if this has been asked, explained before, what do you mean by "down plated" ?

Down plating is where the legal top actual weight of a trailer and its load is reduced

For example a HB401 comes from the factory as 780 empty and plated at 1600 so it can carry 820
Down plate that from 1600 to 1400 and it can now only carry 620

The B licence towing rule states that the vehicle GVW (plated weight) added to the trailer MAM (plated weight) must not total more than 3500

 

[Rides]

Hi, wondering if you can clear something up! I need to downplate my trailer- an ifor. I know what i want to downplate it to etc, but it seems i have to jump through hoops to get a new plat sent out by ifor themselves, and my local dealer want £60 plus vat to sort it! Does the vin plate legally have to be provided by the manufacturer, or can i get one elsewhere? from what i've read all it HAS to display is the gvw- the serial number & other weights seem to be optional?

 

[ROG]

Hi, wondering if you can clear something up! I need to downplate my trailer- an ifor. I know what i want to downplate it to etc, but it seems i have to jump through hoops to get a new plat sent out by ifor themselves, and my local dealer want £60 plus vat to sort it! Does the vin plate legally have to be provided by the manufacturer, or can i get one elsewhere? from what i've read all it HAS to display is the gvw- the serial number & other weights seem to be optional?

As the only reason to down plate is for B licence towing then that I assume is why you need to do it

Simple enough to down plate - contact IW 01490 412527 - they will want about £50 - you remove current plate and send it to them with the money - they send you new plate to fit on - you need a drill and a pop rivet gun

ONLY the trailer manufacturer can legally do this

 

[Rides]

OK thanks- i spoke to ifor before, they first want me to register the change of ownership ( i've just bought the trailer) including sending proof of purchase, which is a pain as i bought it private, once thats done they will send the new plate & yes us £40 + VAT. Just wanted to know if it legally had to be done by the manufatcurer- thanks

 

[ROG]

OK thanks- i spoke to ifor before, they first want me to register the change of ownership ( i've just bought the trailer) including sending proof of purchase, which is a pain as i bought it private, once thats done they will send the new plate & yes us £40 + VAT. Just wanted to know if it legally had to be done by the manufatcurer- thanks

Just get an email from the seller stating they sold it to you which should suffice - check with IW to confirm

Are you ok with the B licence towing rules ? - I assume yes

 

[Rides]

I do have a handwritten receipt so hoping a photo of that will suffice! just need to go back & get the chassis code as didnt know i needed that until i went to fill out the form. Yeah i am, thanks mainly to your thread plus a couple of confirmation emails from dvla!!

bmw 3 series 2045 GVW, ifor 401 downplating to 1455kg

 

[ROG]

I do have a handwritten receipt so hoping a photo of that will suffice! just need to go back & get the chassis code as didnt know i needed that until i went to fill out the form. Yeah i am, thanks mainly to your thread plus a couple of confirmation emails from dvla!!

bmw 3 series 2045 GVW, ifor 401 downplating to 1455kg

Spot on - leaves about 675 for the trailer load

I might have gone for a MAM of 1350 just in case of getting a vehicle in future with a higher GVW - at 1350 it would still leave a trailer load weight of about 570

 

[Rides]

i need the payload unfortunately, towing a 16.2 hanoverian who could get to 650! so i will have to stick to the beemer lol

 

[ROG]

i need the payload unfortunately, towing a 16.2 hanoverian who could get to 650! so i will have to stick to the beemer lol

Feed it less apples and sugar lumps = LOL

 

[Rides]

i should- he grows too much & ill have to upgrade to one of the fancy new chevals that are bigger!

 

[ROG]

I'm looking at getting a single I-for Williams trailer and wondered if weight wise it would be ok to tow with a citroen exsarra picasso? I'd only be traveling a couple of Shetland ponies or a 13.2 new forest pony.

Would it be possible or will I have to change cars too?

Citroën Xsara Picasso 2.0 HDi LX 5d has a towing capacity of 1300 so if you have that model then you can load just over 500 kg into the trailer

What would be useful is the figures from the V5 keepers form
Max braked towing weight = ?
Max permissible mass = ?

Alternatively please find the vehicle weight plate usually hidden under the bonnet or in a door frame and post the top two of the four figures

What licence will you be towing with - B or B+E ?

 

[lauralouise]

I'm hoping to be able to tow on my B licence.
I'm looking at the Kia Sportage CRDI VGT, I have done some research and the weight of the vehicle is 1842kg and the maximum towing weight is 1800kg.

I will be towing with a two horse Rice trailer that weighs 795kg, I will be towing one 14hh pony and maybe a Shetland also from time to time.

I think these figures are correct. So would this be legal?
Thank you

 

[ROG]

I'm hoping to be able to tow on my B licence.
I'm looking at the Kia Sportage CRDI VGT, I have done some research and the weight of the vehicle is 1842kg and the maximum towing weight is 1800kg.

I will be towing with a two horse Rice trailer that weighs 795kg, I will be towing one 14hh pony and maybe a Shetland also from time to time.

I think these figures are correct. So would this be legal?
Thank you

Unfortunately none of those figures are useful

B licence towing goes on the total of the plated weights of the vehicle and trailer

I need to know the GVW of the vehicle and the plated weight of the trailer
see post number 2000 of this thread on how to find those

 

[DJ]

ROG, i`m trying to explain to someone about how it`s the plated weights that matter. They are using the government guidelines here (post 1997 but pre 2013) as "fact" that they can use any car and trailer, as long as the actual physical weight of car/trailer/horse are less than 3500kg (and NOT using the plated weights) ... I know this is wrong and if they get pulled by VOSA/Police they be in trouble, not to mention that their insurance would be invalid too ... How else can I get explain it to them? and also isn`t it about time the government changed the way they word it? As it stands now it does look as though you only have to make sure the ACTUAL weight of it all comes in at less that 3.5t and not the plated weights of car and trailer combined.

 

[ROG]

ROG, i`m trying to explain to someone about how it`s the plated weights that matter. They are using the government guidelines here (post 1997 but pre 2013) as "fact" that they can use any car and trailer, as long as the actual physical weight of car/trailer/horse are less than 3500kg (and NOT using the plated weights) ... I know this is wrong and if they get pulled by VOSA/Police they be in trouble, not to mention that their insurance would be invalid too ... How else can I get explain it to them? and also isn`t it about time the government changed the way they word it? As it stands now it does look as though you only have to make sure the ACTUAL weight of it all comes in at less that 3.5t and not the plated weights of car and trailer combined.

Show then this = https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/208103/ins57p.pdf see pages 7 to 10

Inform them that much of what is on the internet is out dated and has errors

If they still insist on using actual weights then I would tell them that I will report them and get them stopped by police = bet that would make them wake up to what the law is and not what they think it is !!

It is a shame that the Gov do not say it as simply as I do .......
For B towing there is one extra law on top of all the usual towing laws and that is - the plated GVW of the towing vehicle added to the trailer plated MAM must not total more than 3500 kg

 

[DJ]

Show then this = https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/208103/ins57p.pdf see pages 7 to 10

Inform them that much of what is on the internet is out dated and has errors

If they still insist on using actual weights then I would tell them that I will report them and get them stopped by police = bet that would make them wake up to what the law is and not what they think it is !!

It is a shame that the Gov do not say it as simply as I do .......
For B towing there is one extra law on top of all the usual towing laws and that is - the plated GVW of the towing vehicle added to the trailer plated MAM must not total more than 3500 kg

Thanks ROG. I have just spoken with the DVLA. I`ve escalated the way it`s worded as a complaint, and I have emailed it in writing too. I`ll be speaking with VOSA tomorrow to get written confirmation from them too in the hope that will help. I`ll put anything I get back on here. It`s actually quite shocking to find out just how many people have misinterpreted the way it is worded and are driving their beloved ponies about illegally and uninsured

 

[DJ]

Show then this = https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/208103/ins57p.pdf see pages 7 to 10

Inform them that much of what is on the internet is out dated and has errors

If they still insist on using actual weights then I would tell them that I will report them and get them stopped by police = bet that would make them wake up to what the law is and not what they think it is !!

It is a shame that the Gov do not say it as simply as I do .......
For B towing there is one extra law on top of all the usual towing laws and that is - the plated GVW of the towing vehicle added to the trailer plated MAM must not total more than 3500 kg

Thanks ROG. I have just spoken with the DVLA. I`ve escalated the way it`s worded as a complaint, and I have emailed it in writing too. I`ll be speaking with VOSA tomorrow to get written confirmation from them too in the hope that will help. I`ll put anything I get back on here. It`s actually quite shocking to find out just how many people have misinterpreted the way it is worded and are driving their beloved ponies about illegally and uninsured

 

[ROG]

Thanks ROG. I have just spoken with the DVLA. I`ve escalated the way it`s worded as a complaint, and I have emailed it in writing too. I`ll be speaking with VOSA tomorrow to get written confirmation from them too in the hope that will help. I`ll put anything I get back on here. It`s actually quite shocking to find out just how many people have misinterpreted the way it is worded and are driving their beloved ponies about illegally and uninsured

I have already emailed DVLA and emailed my MP who got in touch with the DfT - they state it is not correct and have left outdated legal info but have done nothing about it - that was over 6 months ago so do not hold your breath

DVSA (old DSA + VOSA) have nothing to do with it

 

[ROG]

Sorry, not a horse owner, but your site seemed v. switched on.......

What is the Maximum allowable Train Weight for a Discovery pulling a 3500kg trailer??

Thanks in anticipation

George

Which is yours from this list ? = http://carleasingmadesimple.com/business-car-leasing/land-rover/discovery/gross-vehicle-weight/

If none in that list then please post your exact model OR ....

You can look at the weight plate usually hidden under the bonnet or in a door frame - top figure is GVW and second frpm top is GTW
GTW minus GVW = max towing capacity unless max braked towing weight listed on V5 keepers form states other

PS - what licence do you have?
B or B+E

 

[brummycraig]

Hi

I have a Skoda Yeti 2.0l tdi CR 140 and have just purchased an ifor williams 505R, Still struggling to understand the math but hope the following will allow you to confirm for me

1 - What licence they hold - B or BE - BE(Pre 97)
2 - Unladen/empty weight of the towing vehicle - 1530kg (Best info I could find online)
3 - GVW of the towing vehicle - 2075kg
4 - GTW and/or towing capacity of the towing vehicle - 4075/2000kg
5 - Plated MAM of the trailer or if no plate then the load rating on the tyres - 2340kg
6 - Unladen/empty weight of the trailer - 905kg

I pressume the max I could load onto the trailer would be 1095kg - but am I legal? and does weight loaded into the car have any effect?

Thanks in advance, and great thread btw.

Craig

 

[ROG]

Hi

I have a Skoda Yeti 2.0l tdi CR 140 and have just purchased an ifor williams 505R, Still struggling to understand the math but hope the following will allow you to confirm for me

1 - What licence they hold - B or BE - BE(Pre 97)
2 - Unladen/empty weight of the towing vehicle - 1530kg (Best info I could find online)
3 - GVW of the towing vehicle - 2075kg
4 - GTW and/or towing capacity of the towing vehicle - 4075/2000kg
5 - Plated MAM of the trailer or if no plate then the load rating on the tyres - 2340kg
6 - Unladen/empty weight of the trailer - 905kg

I pressume the max I could load onto the trailer would be 1095kg - but am I legal? and does weight loaded into the car have any effect?

Thanks in advance, and great thread btw.

Craig

You can load 545 into vehicle (2075-1530=545) and 1095 into the trailer (2000-905=1095)

 

[brummycraig]

You can load 545 into vehicle (2075-1530=545) and 1095 into the trailer (2000-905=1095)

Thank you for the quick response. Would I be right in thinking this combo couldn't be towed on a B license?

Craig

 

[brummycraig]

You can load 545 into vehicle (2075-1530=545) and 1095 into the trailer (2000-905=1095)

Thank you for the quick response. Would I be right in thinking this combo couldn't be towed on a B license?

Craig

 

[ROG]

Thank you for the quick response. Would I be right in thinking this combo couldn't be towed on a B license?

Craig

Not unless the trailer was down plated via contact with the manufacturer from 2340 to a max of 1425 (1425+2075=3500)
At 1425 the max load for the trailer would be 520 (1425-905=520)

 

[Kungfoo-hamster]

Hi

I'm trying to work out what trailer I could get for towing safely behind my existing vehicle:-

I currently own a Dacia Duster 4x4 (2014 plate) diesel (1.5 engine?)
I have a pre-1997 driving licence
I would like to tow one 15.2 cob (approx 500kg) and, occasionally another 15.2 horse as well, if possible.

I am looking for a secondhand trailer and would like some advice on what makes/models I should be looking at?

Thanks in advance

 

[ROG]

Hi

I'm trying to work out what trailer I could get for towing safely behind my existing vehicle:-

I currently own a Dacia Duster 4x4 (2014 plate) diesel (1.5 engine?)
I have a pre-1997 driving licence
I would like to tow one 15.2 cob (approx 500kg) and, occasionally another 15.2 horse as well, if possible.

I am looking for a secondhand trailer and would like some advice on what makes/models I should be looking at?

Thanks in advance

I cannot advise on makes and types of trailer as I know nothing about them - my expertise is on the laws of towing

Is it this model of Dacia? = http://www.dacia.co.uk/vehicles/duster/price-and-spec/

If it is then the max towing weight capacity is 1200 kg

If you had lightweight trailer such as a Bateson Derby which is 675 empty then with a 500 kg horse it would total 1175 so just within the max allowed - but that is very tight and if the horse was 30 kg heavier or there was 30 kg of other stuff in the trailer it would not work