Welcome to HHO Towing Clinic

[ROG]

thank you ROG - very helpful

Ideally id love to tow with a good estate as my tax/insurance is cheaper - id only ever be towing one horse so i will look into it

Find a vehicle and post these specs on here
Unladen/kerb weight
GVW
Towing capacity

Weight of horse plus anything else you need to load in the trailer

I will then inform you as to what you need in the way of a trailer which will conform to B licence towing

 

[perfect11s]

Just been looking at a equitrek trailer with a friend, im now a bit confused about weights, they have an unladen weight of 1900kg and a gross of 3500kg.. but I always understood if it was over 1020kg unladen they were subject to anual testing and needed a ministy plate?????
Thanks...

 

[ROG]

Just been looking at a equitrek trailer with a friend, im now a bit confused about weights, they have an unladen weight of 1900kg and a gross of 3500kg.. but I always understood if it was over 1020kg unladen they were subject to anual testing and needed a ministy plate?????
Thanks...

The 1020 is the current Operator licencing limit but there are plans afoot to reduce that to zero

VOSA/ministry plates are for trailers over 3500 MAM because they come under different rules

 

[perfect11s]

The 1020 is the current Operator licencing limit but there are plans afoot to reduce that to zero

VOSA/ministry plates are for trailers over 3500 MAM because they come under different rules

OK sort of get it but ive seen this on vosa and dft laws saying 1020 unladen above that it needs a plate??? someone I asked who knows about trucks and trailers said it was why a lot of livestock trailers had a removeable container!!! , caravans are over 1020 so maybe like you say and I would agree the law totaly changes at 3500kg and maybe under its not required , Thanks again..

 

[ROG]

OK sort of get it but ive seen this on vosa and dft laws saying 1020 unladen above that it needs a plate??? someone I asked who knows about trucks and trailers said it was why a lot of livestock trailers had a removeable container!!!

1020 with a fixed container would put it over 1020 so come into O licence but 1020 with removable container means the container is part of the load so not into O licence rules

 

[Kat]

Hi, I've just bought a 55plate Nissan Navara D40 with a 2.5L diesel engine and manual gear box. It is my intention to get a trailer so I can take my horse out but I'm not sure what I should be looking at trailer wise.

I have a pre-1997 licence so B+E entitlement. DH only has a B licence (missed out by about 10 days ) I have been working on the assumption that we wouldn't be able to get anything he could tow without doing a trailer test but if there is an option I'd be grateful to hear it.

We only have one horse, I guess she weighs no more than 600kg as a fairly lightweight warmblood standing at 15.3/16hh. Would be nice if we had space/capacity for a second if we chose but not essential.

 

[ROG]

Hi, I've just bought a 55plate Nissan Navara D40 with a 2.5L diesel engine and manual gear box. It is my intention to get a trailer so I can take my horse out but I'm not sure what I should be looking at trailer wise.

I have a pre-1997 licence so B+E entitlement. DH only has a B licence (missed out by about 10 days ) I have been working on the assumption that we wouldn't be able to get anything he could tow without doing a trailer test but if there is an option I'd be grateful to hear it.

We only have one horse, I guess she weighs no more than 600kg as a fairly lightweight warmblood standing at 15.3/16hh. Would be nice if we had space/capacity for a second if we chose but not essential.

I would need the actual weights for the nissan but it seems from what I could find that the GVW is about 3000 and the towing capacity is also about 3000

I would go for a trailer with a MAM of 3500 so that you have the option for a sencond horse but the limit would still be 3000
Empty trailers are about 1000 with a 3500 MAM so that would leave a loading capacity of 2000 (2000+1000=3000) - you could get 3 horses in that weight wise !!

DH can only tow a trailer with a max MAM of 750 because the GVW of the nissan is so high at around 3000 BUT.....
They can drive it as a learner if you are sitting next to them as the supervising driver

 

[Kat]

Wow thanks for the speedy response!

Would the GVW and towing weight be in the user manual? If so i'll check and repost later.

Is that right that I could supervise DH? It would be good if I could as it would give us more flexibility and he is unlikely to want to take the horse out without me or another pre-1997 licence holder going along. I thought I had heard that you could only supervise someone towing as a learner if you had done your towing test yourself, is that incorrect or is it on its way? It would be good if he could get some practice in as it would make doing the towing test much cheaper!

 

[ROG]

Wow thanks for the speedy response!

Would the GVW and towing weight be in the user manual? If so i'll check and repost later.

Is that right that I could supervise DH? It would be good if I could as it would give us more flexibility and he is unlikely to want to take the horse out without me or another pre-1997 licence holder going along. I thought I had heard that you could only supervise someone towing as a learner if you had done your towing test yourself, is that incorrect or is it on its way? It would be good if he could get some practice in as it would make doing the towing test much cheaper!

Yes it should be in the manual or on the V5 form

Yes you can supervise DH

New supervising laws came into force in April 2010 but they were only for vocational licences D1 D1+E C1 C1+E
They did not include B+E

 

[Django Pony]

Hi,

I'm thinking about getting a Sinclair trailer. Its unladen weight is 700kg, its max is 2000kg. What sort of car would be suitable to tow it? I'm due to change my company car in May and will be restricted to what's on the list at the time, but I'd like an idea of might be suitable? I would only put 1 horse in, he weighs about 475kg.

I am going to do my B+E asap, and won't tow anything at all until I've passed it!

 

[ROG]

Hi,

I'm thinking about getting a Sinclair trailer. Its unladen weight is 700kg, its max is 2000kg. What sort of car would be suitable to tow it? I'm due to change my company car in May and will be restricted to what's on the list at the time, but I'd like an idea of might be suitable? I would only put 1 horse in, he weighs about 475kg.

I am going to do my B+E asap, and won't tow anything at all until I've passed it!

With a B+E licence then any vehicle with a towing capacity of at least 1200 kgs - there must be hundreds to choose from !!

On a B licence you could tow that if you got it downplated and the weight figures on the towing vehicle (unladen & GVW) worked out ok

 

[jodie3]

Can a petrol (short wheel base) Ford Maverick tow a trailer with a gross weight of 3500kg and an unladen weight of 1105kg with a load of approx 1400kg? Looking at the plate on the vehicle it says 2300kg and 5100kg? My gut feeling is no but the more I try to work it out the more confused I become!! I have a pre 97 licence.

Thanks in advance.

 

[ROG]

Can a petrol (short wheel base) Ford Maverick tow a trailer with a gross weight of 3500kg and an unladen weight of 1105kg with a load of approx 1400kg? Looking at the plate on the vehicle it says 2300kg and 5100kg? My gut feeling is no but the more I try to work it out the more confused I become!! I have a pre 97 licence.

Thanks in advance.

You have a B+E so thats OK
http://www.parts-specs.com/ford/Maverick-SWB/2.7-TD-1993-008683
Form the link above it seems that there is also a towing capacity of 2300
Is this the same for the model you have?
Towing capacity is the ACTUAL weight the trailer and its load can be

Another specs site says this -
http://www.cars-data.com/en/ford-maverick-swb-24i-glx-124hp-40865/specs.html
WEIGHTS
Empty mass: 1600 kg
Maximum permissible mass: 2300 kg
Maximum payload: 700 kg
Maximum trailer mass braked: 2300 kg
Maximum trailer mass unbraked: 750 kg

The figures you posted have got me a little confused because 2300 is the GVW which is the max the maverick can be when fully loaded - 5100 is the GTW which is the max weight the loaded vehicle and trailer can be in total
5100 minus 2300 = 2800 which is more than the 2300 towing capacity I found

IS THERE A TOWING CAPACITY LISTED IN THE HANDBOOK OR ON THE V5 ??

Using JUST the figures you posted and assuming no towing capacity is listed then .....
As long as none of these three weights are exceeded you will be legal -
1 - the 2300 GVW of the Maverick
2 - the 3500 MAM of the trailer
3 - the 5100 GTW which is the actual weight of the lot

 

[jodie3]

Thank you!

Its our farm vehicle so not sure where the V5 is but I'll have a look later and see if here is a handbook in it.

The figures came off the plate in the engine compartment, there where two other figures, 1160kg and 1250kg which I assumed where something to do with axle weights?

I looked on my car (LWB Terrano) and the figures on that are 2580kg, 5380kg, 1160kg and 1460kg so that means mine can tow a little more weight?

Clicking on the link you gave it does look like the same as our Maverick.

So does that mean that the car on its own, without a trailer, can have a load of 2300kg?

Then with a trailer on the maximum weight of both together must not exceed 5100kg?

If we play safe and assume the towable weight is 2300kg and the unladen weight of the trailer is 1105 (from their website) and the horses are 1400kg then we are not legal and if we use the figure of 2800kg then we only have about 300kg to play with which doesn't seem very much.

Sorry if I am being dense but want to have it totally clear in my own mind before I tell my boss her car isn't man enough for the job!!

 

[ROG]

Thank you!

Its our farm vehicle so not sure where the V5 is but I'll have a look later and see if here is a handbook in it.

The figures came off the plate in the engine compartment, there where two other figures, 1160kg and 1250kg which I assumed where something to do with axle weights?

I looked on my car (LWB Terrano) and the figures on that are 2580kg, 5380kg, 1160kg and 1460kg so that means mine can tow a little more weight?

Clicking on the link you gave it does look like the same as our Maverick.

So does that mean that the car on its own, without a trailer, can have a load of 2300kg?

Then with a trailer on the maximum weight of both together must not exceed 5100kg?

If we play safe and assume the towable weight is 2300kg and the unladen weight of the trailer is 1105 (from their website) and the horses are 1400kg then we are not legal and if we use the figure of 2800kg then we only have about 300kg to play with which doesn't seem very much.

Sorry if I am being dense but want to have it totally clear in my own mind before I tell my boss her car isn't man enough for the job!!

The axle weights have nothing to do with the towing weights

The car cannot have a load of 2300 but can be loaded to a max of 2300
2300 being the weight of the car and its load

If there is no towing capacity listed for a vehicle which is quite common then the GVW and GTW are the only weights to go with

With the trailer actually weighing 2505 and the vehicle loaded to the max of 2300 is only a total of 4805 so well within the GTW of 5100 or 5380
If the vehicle actually weighs 2100 when loaded then the trailer can actually weigh 3000 (2100+3000=5100) but for many set ups having the trailer a lot heavier than the vehicle can cause safety issues

So to conclude - using the 5100 GTW
With no restrictions on a listed towing capacity you can have the vehicle actually weighing 2300 and a trailer actually weighing 2800

NOTE - the GVW of the vehicle 2300 plus the MAM of the trailer 3500 does NOT have to add up to 5100 or less - the 5100 is the max actual weight of the combination - just in case anyone was wondering ...

 

[ROG]

If the towing capacity limit is listed at 2300 then 1100+1400=2500 so no good for that vehicle

 

[Lucyad]

Is that right that you can still tow with a supervisory passenger who has passed pre 1997, but has not taken any tests? I thought that had changed, so have been avoiding towing as a result (still ned to get round to doing my test!).

Car is Range Rover P38
Trailer is Ifor Williams HB 510
1 huge horse at 700kg+, 1 tiny pony.

I passed my test post 1997 (1999 I think).

If it is a different result when only towing the tiny pony, this would also be of interest for ponyclub.

 

[Farma]

Hi rog, could you give me an opinion on the following set up please, I have passed b+e.
Car is a Mercedes c180
Towing capacity of car 1800 kg
Trailer weight 820
Horse 500 max
vehicle kerb weight 1705
Gvw of car 2010

Is this all legal and feasible?

 

[ROG]

Is that right that you can still tow with a supervisory passenger who has passed pre 1997, but has not taken any tests? I thought that had changed, so have been avoiding towing as a result (still ned to get round to doing my test!).

Car is Range Rover P38
Trailer is Ifor Williams HB 510
1 huge horse at 700kg+, 1 tiny pony.

I passed my test post 1997 (1999 I think).

If it is a different result when only towing the tiny pony, this would also be of interest for ponyclub.

YES - a pre 97 can still supervise - the April 2010 law changes were for vocational categories C1 C1+E D1 D1+E

The 510 has a MAM of 2584 and is 1000 unladen so will not be ok for towing on a B licence even if the trailer is empty

 

[ROG]

Hi rog, could you give me an opinion on the following set up please, I have passed b+e.
Car is a Mercedes c180
Towing capacity of car 1800 kg
Trailer weight 820
Horse 500 max
vehicle kerb weight 1705
Gvw of car 2010

Is this all legal and feasible?

Legal for B+E providing trailer has a MAM of at least 1320 - most do

820+500=1320 so well with the 1800 towing capacity

 

[Farma]

Legal for B+E providing trailer has a MAM of at least 1320 - most do

820+500=1320 so well with the 1800 towing capacity

Marvellous! thanks for replying so quickly, seems a bit weird to tow with a car and so have been a bit worried, but if it all the numbers add up, should be fine

 

[Lucyad]

YES - a pre 97 can still supervise - the April 2010 law changes were for vocational categories C1 C1+E D1 D1+E

The 510 has a MAM of 2584 and is 1000 unladen so will not be ok for towing on a B licence even if the trailer is empty

Marvellous! (I didn't really think I could get away with towing alone until I pass test, even with tiny pony). Thank you so much!

Can you point me in direction of any stuff on this on line that I can show to my troublesome OH, who has currently banned me from towing with pre 1997 passenger, as he is conviced that I will be banned for lifetime if caught? There was so much in the press around April suggesting otherwise (and it is hard to practice for trailer test if you aren't allowed out at all!). What is the category I am in, and what are the C1 C1+E D1 D1+E categories in laymens terms?

*Scuttles off to plan outings with friendly old co-pilot*

 

[ROG]

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/Drivingforaliving/Drivinglorriesbusesandcoaches/DG_182840

That link shows the changes that occured in 2010

There is no change in the B+E supervising laws so there is no link that states that

Laws are made or ammended when things change that do not allow someone to do something

Where there is no law preventing it then it can be done

 

[jodie3]

Thank you Rog.

 

[catembi]

Would appreciate some help...

We picked up an older double Rice a while ago & my Landcruiser (3.4 litre v6 petrol) was struggling to tow it empty. Have now jacked up each side of the trailer & the front wheel on the nearside when spun only does 3 or 4 revolutions before stopping. I was planning on greasing all the wheels, but is there anything else I should be thinking about doing or looking at?

Sorry, a bit OT but was hoping that someone on here might have some ideas. Might post in NL too.

Thank you

T x

 

[ROG]

Would appreciate some help...

We picked up an older double Rice a while ago & my Landcruiser (3.4 litre v6 petrol) was struggling to tow it empty. Have now jacked up each side of the trailer & the front wheel on the nearside when spun only does 3 or 4 revolutions before stopping. I was planning on greasing all the wheels, but is there anything else I should be thinking about doing or looking at?

Sorry, a bit OT but was hoping that someone on here might have some ideas. Might post in NL too.

Thank you

T x

You need a mechanic for this - me not one
Perhaps a new thread in NL is the best idea - oh. I see you have
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=514390

 

[diamondrockharvey]

Hi Rog,

please may you help me

1 - B license but taking test for B+E in a few weeks
2 - 1495
3 - 2040
4 - 1800
5 - 2700
6 - 1000

I am hoping to be able to borrow a friend's trailer and tow it with my 500kg horse when I pass my towing test but not sure it is going to be legal, I think I might have to invest in a lighter weight trailer!

Thanks in advance!

 

[ROG]

Hi Rog,

please may you help me

1 - B license but taking test for B+E in a few weeks
2 - 1495 U/W or KERB
3 - 2040 GVW
4 - 1800 TOWING CAPACITY
5 - 2700 MAM
6 - 1000 UNLADEN

I am hoping to be able to borrow a friend's trailer and tow it with my 500kg horse when I pass my towing test but not sure it is going to be legal, I think I might have to invest in a lighter weight trailer!

Thanks in advance!

ILLEGAL on a B licence

Reasons -
2040+2700=4740 well over 3500 limit
2700 is more than 1495

On a B+E licence or supervised provisional then it will be legal as long as no more than 800 is loaded into the trailer because 1000+800=1800 which is the max towing capacity

USING A LIGHTWEIGHT TRAILER.........
http://www.cheval-liberte.co.uk/products_trailers_1000_series.htm
The xl with a MAM of 1400 and unladen weight of 655 would be legal for B licence towing and can carry a weight of 745

 

[diamondrockharvey]

Thank you so much for your help!
I am doing my test soon anyways, but good to know my car will tow the trailer and my horse! Thank you!

 

[Millie's Mum]

Hi I get very confused about all of this! Any help would be gratefully received!

My car is a 56 plate Kia Sorento 2.5 manual diesel. I think therefore the following details are correct for it:

Towing capacity of car: 2800kg
Vehicle kerb weight: 2056kg
GVW of car: ??

My trailer is a Thoroughbred trailer. Not many of them about. It has been on the weigh bridge and is 900kg. There is no plate. Therefore:

Trailer weight: 900kg
Horse: 450kg
Licence: I passed after 1997.