Welcome to HHO Towing Clinic

[ROG]

a PS to the last question -

As a C+E driver can you imagine what would happen if the artic trailers had to be replated each time because of the listed GTW of the unit ? !!!!!!

 

[Tayto]

Hello - apologies if this has been done but I don't have time to read through all the posts!

Is it a legal requirement that you must have have an audible or visible "announcement" that the towing indicators are working? I have a 12 plate swb shogun and the garage I bought it from says its not a legal requirement but I am sure I saw somewhere that it is...

 

[ROG]

Hello - apologies if this has been done but I don't have time to read through all the posts!

Is it a legal requirement that you must have have an audible or visible "announcement" that the towing indicators are working? I have a 12 plate swb shogun and the garage I bought it from says its not a legal requirement but I am sure I saw somewhere that it is...

Not a legal requirement but you are responsible for ensuring they do work at the start of your journey

In most cases when a bulb has gone they tend to flash very quickly so the driver knows something is up by either a faster than normal audible sound or the dash indicator going faster than normal

 

[lonelyhorse]

Hi could you tell me if this would be legal please?

1 - What licence they hold - B
2 - Unladen/empty weight of the towing vehicle - 1615
3 - GVW of the towing vehicle - 2170
4 - GTW and/or towing capacity of the towing vehicle - 2200
5 - Plated MAM of the trailer or if no plate then the load rating on the tyres - 1700
6 - Unladen/empty weight of the trailer - 675

I think this would not be legal at the moment as the MAM of the trailer is too high? What would I need to downplate it to to be legal? Thanks!

 

[ROG]

Hi could you tell me if this would be legal please?

1 - What licence they hold - B
2 - Unladen/empty weight of the towing vehicle - 1615
3 - GVW of the towing vehicle - 2170
4 - GTW and/or towing capacity of the towing vehicle - 2200
5 - Plated MAM of the trailer or if no plate then the load rating on the tyres - 1700
6 - Unladen/empty weight of the trailer - 675

I think this would not be legal at the moment as the MAM of the trailer is too high? What would I need to downplate it to to be legal? Thanks!

You have a Bateson Derby I reckon ?!!

You need to contact Bateson 0161 426 0500 and get them to down plate the trailer from 1700 to 1300 as that would make the total MAM 3470 which is under the 3500 limit for B towing

1300 minus 675 = 625 for the trailer load/horse

Bateson down plate usually goes like this -
You remove weight plate and send to Bateson with about a tenner and a note stating what it wants down plating to
They send you new plate which you fix to trailer
You need a drill and a pop rivet gun

 

[lonelyhorse]

Thanks so much! Haven't got the trailer yet but am planning to buy it new from Bateson who say they are happy to down plate it before it arrives, only need to carry one pony so that's great! Thanks

 

[ROG]

Thanks so much! Haven't got the trailer yet but am planning to buy it new from Bateson who say they are happy to down plate it before it arrives, only need to carry one pony so that's great! Thanks

Had I know you were buying it new then I would have said just ask Bateson to plate it at 1300 but you made me write all that stuff about getting it down plated once you have it !!! = LOL = rotter !!

 

[lonelyhorse]

lol - sorry!! Thanks for your (detailed) help though!

 

[ROG]

lol - sorry!! Thanks for your (detailed) help though!

No worries - it will help anyone else reading in a similar position

 

[Tayto]

Not a legal requirement but you are responsible for ensuring they do work at the start of your journey

In most cases when a bulb has gone they tend to flash very quickly so the driver knows something is up by either a faster than normal audible sound or the dash indicator going faster than normal

Thank you!!

 

[LA&Murph]

Just double checking my figures before I seriously look into the logistics and pricing of this! Also, suggestions of what to downplate to on the models it's needed on, horse is max 450kg.

1 - B
2 - 1595 (2007 Rav4 2.2l D4D)
3 - 2190
4 - 4190 (giving towing capacity of 2000?)
5 - Thinking of an HB403 at 1600 (would need downplated though, am I right?) or a Cheval Liberte, one is 1400, the other is also 1600 and would need downplated
6 - HB403 is 767, Chevals are both 720

 

[ROG]

Just double checking my figures before I seriously look into the logistics and pricing of this! Also, suggestions of what to downplate to on the models it's needed on, horse is max 450kg.

1 - B
2 - 1595 (2007 Rav4 2.2l D4D)
3 - 2190
4 - 4190 (giving towing capacity of 2000?)
5 - Thinking of an HB403 at 1600 (would need downplated though, am I right?) or a Cheval Liberte, one is 1400, the other is also 1600 and would need downplated
6 - HB403 is 767, Chevals are both 720

4 = correct = 2000

Max plated MAM for trailer = 1300

2190 + 1300 = 3490 which is 10 inside the max 3500 limit for B towing

 

[cheekywelshie]

Apologies for being such a dunce but if you had the lightest trailer - i.e. a Bateson Derby one http://www.batesontrailers.com/product/horse-trailers/derby-lightweight-horse-pony/ , what car would you need to tow it? I had looked at the dusters as they are affordable but maybe just don't have the torque?? I would be towing one horse who is about 550-580 depending on how much I can keep his weight down!

 

[ROG]

Apologies for being such a dunce but if you had the lightest trailer - i.e. a Bateson Derby one http://www.batesontrailers.com/product/horse-trailers/derby-lightweight-horse-pony/ , what car would you need to tow it? I had looked at the dusters as they are affordable but maybe just don't have the torque?? I would be towing one horse who is about 550-580 depending on how much I can keep his weight down!

The vehicle needed to tow it would need to have at least a towing capacity of 1255 (675+580=1255) but I would go for one with at least a 1300 towing capacity

The licence needed would depend on the vehicle GVW added to the plated MAM of the trailer

 

[cheekywelshie]

At the minute I still only have cat B after a disastrous attempt at the test (completely fell apart before I got to the test centre after a dreadful lesson beforehand!)

Shame about the duster as that's a car i could afford to run...but I read somewhere that it is 1,200kg braked trailer weight. Is that the towing capacity?? I am confused as there have been references to 1500 but i think that is the size of the car engine as opposed to towing! I would only be towing one horse owing to the license. What trailer weight would you need?

http://www.dacia.co.uk/vehicles/dus...05d0075b93/Dacia_Duster_E-Brochure_200913.pdf

At the bottom it says 1200 then 1500 towing capacity i think the 1500 is the diesel? It says max unbaked 660 - whatever that means!..the diesel one has 680

 

[ROG]

At the minute I still only have cat B after a disastrous attempt at the test (completely fell apart before I got to the test centre after a dreadful lesson beforehand!)

Shame about the duster as that's a car i could afford to run...but I read somewhere that it is 1,200kg braked trailer weight. Is that the towing capacity?? I am confused as there have been references to 1500 but i think that is the size of the car engine as opposed to towing! I would only be towing one horse owing to the license. What trailer weight would you need?

http://www.dacia.co.uk/vehicles/dus...05d0075b93/Dacia_Duster_E-Brochure_200913.pdf

At the bottom it says 1200 then 1500 towing capacity i think the 1500 is the diesel? It says max unbaked 660 - whatever that means!..the diesel one has 680

Braked towing weight = max towing capacity

Depending what model you go for will determine what that is but looking at it it seems that only the 4x4 models have the 1500 which is what you need

If you did go for a 4x4 model then down plating a Derby trailer from 1700 to 1300 will have you sorted for B licence towing

 

[cheekywelshie]

Thank you that is really helpful! What is the max towing weight of a trailer that the 1500 could handle? Is that the 1300? 'When it says The maximum gross weight is 1700kg but this can be reduced as required if used with only one horse. ' on the website how do you go about reducing it? (sorry daft questions!!)

 

[ROG]

Thank you that is really helpful! What is the max towing weight of a trailer that the 1500 could handle? Is that the 1300? 'When it says The maximum gross weight is 1700kg but this can be reduced as required if used with only one horse. ' on the website how do you go about reducing it? (sorry daft questions!!)

Max actual weight the 4x4 Dacia can handle will be 1500 but as its got a 2200 GVW then the max plated weight the trailer can be is 1300 for B towing

Down plating a Bateson trailer is easy -
Contact Bateson with the trailer details = 0161 426 0500
Send the 1700 plate along with the fee - about a tenner I think
They send you new 1300 plate for you to fit on
You need access to a drill and a pop rivet gun

 

[LA&Murph]

4 = correct = 2000

Max plated MAM for trailer = 1300

2190 + 1300 = 3490 which is 10 inside the max 3500 limit for B towing

Excellent, thank you very much for your help!

 

[patchwork puzzle]

I'm hoping that you could please confirm for me whether I can tow a trailer with my vehicle on my B licence.*

Vehicle*
weighs 1759Kg
braked tow weight 2600kg

Trailer
weighs 910kg
Mam 2340kg

I am unable to decipher from the dvla website as it only say's that the combined weight must not exceed 3500kg but is this the actual or the maximum. If it is the*
maximum I presume it to be 2600kg as this is the higher of the two maximum capacities (as to combine the two maximums would greatly exceed either vehicles maximum making it an impossibility to tow?)*

Thank you very much.

 

[ROG]

I'm hoping that you could please confirm for me whether I can tow a trailer with my vehicle on my B licence.*

Vehicle*
weighs 1759Kg
braked tow weight 2600kg

Trailer
weighs 910kg
Mam 2340kg

I am unable to decipher from the dvla website as it only say's that the combined weight must not exceed 3500kg but is this the actual or the maximum. If it is the*
maximum I presume it to be 2600kg as this is the higher of the two maximum capacities (as to combine the two maximums would greatly exceed either vehicles maximum making it an impossibility to tow?)*

Thank you very much.

There is one major figure missing - the vehicle GVW

However, from looking at the trailer MAM of 2340 I will say no as it only leaves 1160 for the vehicle GVW

The 3500 limit is the vehicle GVW added to the trailer MAM

 

[patchwork puzzle]

I found it, the Gvw is 2400kg, so I'd need to downplate this trailer or look for one (if it exists without downplating) that has a mam of 1100kg?
If then the actual unladen weights combined and total taken from 3500kg gave me enough Kg's left for my pony, me plus equipment, I could tow on a B licence?

 

[ROG]

Is this your vehicle ?
Vauxhall Frontera 2.2
Unladen = 1759
GVW = 2400
towing = 2600

If it is then 2400 + 2340 = 4740 so 1240 over the 3500 limit for B towing

 

[ROG]

I found it, the Gvw is 2400kg, so I'd need to downplate this trailer or look for one (if it exists without downplating) that has a mam of 1100kg?
If then the actual unladen weights combined and total taken from 3500kg gave me enough Kg's left for my pony, me plus equipment, I could tow on a B licence?

SNAP !! - posted same time as you

No chance of using a trailer plated at 1100 for horse towing as the lightest empty trailer I know of is 675 so at 1100 that will only leave 425 for the trailer load/horse

If you were to down plate your current trailer to 1100 that leaves only 180 for the horse !!

You need a vehicle with a lower GVW for B towing

 

[patchwork puzzle]

Yes it is, and that's what I couldn't understand from the website as it doesn't say maximum, just the combined weight. I also don't understand how it can be both maximum capacities as that figure will always be well over and above either maximum and so you would never be towing that weight anyway?
Strange.
Thank you anyway

 

[ROG]

Yes it is, and that's what I couldn't understand from the website as it doesn't say maximum, just the combined weight. I also don't understand how it can be both maximum capacities as that figure will always be well over and above either maximum and so you would never be towing that weight anyway?
Strange.
Thank you anyway

Website missed off the word MAM when stating the 3500 limit - I have told DVLA some time ago about it !

Many on here tow on a B licence with one horse
Example
Nissan Xtrail
GVW 2200

IW HB 401/3 trailer
Empty 780
MAM 1600 but down plated to 1300
Max load for trailer 520
OR
Bateson Derby trailer
Empty 675
MAM 1700 but down plated to 1300
Max load for trailer 625

You need a different vehicle and trailer

 

[patchwork puzzle]

Oh ok, that makes sense, thank you.
The vehicle is already mine and I have the option of using a friends trailer as she has now bought a box with the ultimate aim of buying my own trailer. I have just sold my old lorry though so can look at a different trailer
Thanks again

 

[ROG]

Oh ok, that makes sense, thank you.
The vehicle is already mine and I have the option of using a friends trailer as she has now bought a box with the ultimate aim of buying my own trailer. I have just sold my old lorry though so can look at a different trailer
Thanks again

No way of using B licence for any horsebox towing with your current vehicle so that must be changed for you to do it

you can drive any combination doing this -

SUPERVISING A B+E LEARNER
In April 2010 new rules were introduced for those supervising certain learner drivers but they only affected those supervising VOCATIONAL categories such as C1 C1+E D1 & D1+E where the supervising driver had those categories given to them for free when they passed a pre 1997 car test.
They do not affect those with a pre 1997 B+E licence who wish to supervise a B+E learner.

All B licence holders have B+E provisional on the paper part of their licence and can tow an empty or loaded trailer on all roads including motorways.

The usual rules apply when a learner is driving -
The supervising driver must be aged over 21
The supervising driver must have held a B+E licence for at least 3 years
L plates must be fitted to the front of the vehicle and the rear of the trailer
Correct insurance for a B+E learner
The supervising driver does not need to be insured unless they are driving

 

[daisy123]

Hey Rog, been towing my girl all over to shows its great hook up and off we go. Have you any idea of weight needs to be in trailer to do trailer with my own trailer and car? Thanks

 

[ROG]

Hey Rog, been towing my girl all over to shows its great hook up and off we go. Have you any idea of weight needs to be in trailer to do trailer with my own trailer and car? Thanks

I assume the word TEST has been missed out ?

That being the case then .......

The trailer must now be loaded with 600 kgs of sand bags or a 1000 kgs water IBC for the test so most companies are now training with that weight in the trailer = https://www.gov.uk/new-laden-testing-rules-for-driving-test-vehicles


This is interesting BUT NOT RECOMMENDED – a B licence towing set up can be presented for the B+E test but L plates must be used for the test that means you can train yourself, go to test by yourself, fit L plates, do the test, then, pass or fail, remove L plates and drive away by yourself.
DSA B+E TEST AND VEHICLE/TRAILER REQUIREMENTS = http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/DriverLicensing/CaravansTrailersCommercialVehicles/DG_4022521
Remember that the required 600 kgs of sand bags or 1 x 1000 IBC filled with water will be required in the trailer and the load must be secure.