Welcome to HHO Towing Clinic

[Echo24]

Am I right in thinking I would need to do a towing test for the following? Trailer is my YO's so can't downplate:

1. B licence
2. Volvo XC90 unladen weight 2009kg
3. GVW 2750kg
4. Max towing weight: unbraked 750kg, braked 2700kg
5. Ifor Williams H511 2700kg
6. Unladen weight 1000kg

Or alternatively I get a Cheval Liberte single trailer at 1400kg and down plate it which gives me 750kg for pony, water, etc? Thanks.

 

[ROG]

Am I right in thinking I would need to do a towing test for the following? Trailer is my YO's so can't downplate:

1. B licence
2. Volvo XC90 unladen weight 2009kg
3. GVW 2750kg
4. Max towing weight: unbraked 750kg, braked 2700kg
5. Ifor Williams H511 2700kg
6. Unladen weight 1000kg

Or alternatively I get a Cheval Liberte single trailer at 1400kg and down plate it which gives me 750kg for pony, water, etc? Thanks.

Max trailer MAM is 750 on a B licence for a vehicle with a GVW between 2750 and 3500

You could drive it under B+E learner rules - see post number 2000 of this thread

 

[*MarlonDingle*]

Hello,
So after a 400 mile round trip to see a van that was supposed to tow 2500kgs and the v5 only showed it can tow 2000kg I am back to being confused!! would this be legal if i kept the trailer and contents less than 2000kgs or does the trailer need to be down plated?

1 - I hold a B+E
2 - Unladen/empty weight of the towing vehicle = 1810kgs
3 - GVW of the towing vehicle = 4600kgs
4 - GTW and/or towing capacity of the towing vehicle = 2000kgs as stated on the v5
5 - Plated MAM of the trailer or if no plate then the load rating on the tyres= 2340kgs
6 - Unladen/empty weight of the trailer = Ifor Williams 905kgs

Thank you ever so much!

 

[ROG]

Hello,
So after a 400 mile round trip to see a van that was supposed to tow 2500kgs and the v5 only showed it can tow 2000kg I am back to being confused!! would this be legal if i kept the trailer and contents less than 2000kgs or does the trailer need to be down plated?

1 - I hold a B+E
2 - Unladen/empty weight of the towing vehicle = 1810kgs
3 - GVW of the towing vehicle = 4600kgs
4 - GTW and/or towing capacity of the towing vehicle = 2000kgs as stated on the v5
5 - Plated MAM of the trailer or if no plate then the load rating on the tyres= 2340kgs
6 - Unladen/empty weight of the trailer = Ifor Williams 905kgs

Thank you ever so much!

You can tow that trailer as long as you do not load more than 1095 into the trailer
1095 + 905 = 2000

There is no law or rule which states that the max towing capacity of a vehicle must be able to accommodate the plated MAM of a trailer

 

[jewel]

is there as way i can legally tow on a b licence. It would only be a small pony 400 kg max, the vehicle would be a p reg swb pajero. so is there a way to legally tow and what trailer would i be best to be looking at? thanks in advance

 

[ROG]

is there as way i can legally tow on a b licence. It would only be a small pony 400 kg max, the vehicle would be a p reg swb pajero. so is there a way to legally tow and what trailer would i be best to be looking at? thanks in advance

There could be but firstly I need to know the GVW of the vehicle
What are the top two figures on the vehicle weight plate ? - usually hidden under bonnet or in a door frame

 

[ROG]

is there as way i can legally tow on a b licence. It would only be a small pony 400 kg max, the vehicle would be a p reg swb pajero. so is there a way to legally tow and what trailer would i be best to be looking at? thanks in advance

To add to my reply above -

Lets say your vehicle has a GVW of 2200 and you get an IW HB403 with a plated MAM of 1600 but down plate it via contact with IW to 1300 so you now have the B licence max of 3500 which is 2200 + 1300
The HB 403 weighs 800 empty so that leaves 500 for the trailer load (horse water etc)

What often happens is that B licence holders have too high a GVW vehicle which then does not allow enough for a horse trailer

 

[jewel]

thanks for replying will look what the gvw is tomorrow

 

[bluetrees]

Hi

I'm doing this the other way round as we are about to get a new car.....I'm looking for a potential tow vehicle that can tow a Ifor 401 with a gross laden weight of 1600 but I wouldn't be able to down plate it as it is borrowed. Are there any vehicles out there that you know off the top of your head that would tow this legally on a just a B licence?

Thanks,

 

[ROG]

Hi

I'm doing this the other way round as we are about to get a new car.....I'm looking for a potential tow vehicle that can tow a Ifor 401 with a gross laden weight of 1600 but I wouldn't be able to down plate it as it is borrowed. Are there any vehicles out there that you know off the top of your head that would tow this legally on a just a B licence?

Thanks,

Blimey - you need a car with a GVW no more than 1900kg

http://carleasingmadesimple.com/business-car-leasing/skoda/octavia/gross-vehicle-weight/ - look at the INFO on the ones 1900 max

 

[bluetrees]

Blimey - you need a car with a GVW no more than 1900kg

http://carleasingmadesimple.com/business-car-leasing/skoda/octavia/gross-vehicle-weight/ - look at the INFO on the ones 1900 max

I don't think I'll be able to convince hubby to buy a Skoda unfortunately as that is the one I had found. Not sure why as they are pretty good cars. My friend tows with hers and she says it's really good. He's looking at the Mondeos but they are too heavy. However, I've been reading through the thread and I see on #2000 you have outlined some of the rules. I was told it wasn't legal for me to drive supervised on L plates any more, that law was revoked a few years ago but the reply #2000 says this is just for vocational drivers and the C tests and above. Both my sister and husband are pre 97 licence holders and one of them could sit with me so am I okay with L plates?

 

[ROG]

I don't think I'll be able to convince hubby to buy a Skoda unfortunately as that is the one I had found. Not sure why as they are pretty good cars. My friend tows with hers and she says it's really good. He's looking at the Mondeos but they are too heavy. However, I've been reading through the thread and I see on #2000 you have outlined some of the rules. I was told it wasn't legal for me to drive supervised on L plates any more, that law was revoked a few years ago but the reply #2000 says this is just for vocational drivers and the C tests and above. Both my sister and husband are pre 97 licence holders and one of them could sit with me so am I okay with L plates?

Sister or hubby supervising you is 100% legal under B+E learner rules and neither need to be insured unless they are actually driving

 

[bluetrees]

Sister or hubby supervising you is 100% legal under B+E learner rules and neither need to be insured unless they are actually driving

Brill, thanks......that makes it a bit easier for us to pick a new car. Still limited to a car and a single trailer but will be a
bit easier.

 

[ROG]

Brill, thanks......that makes it a bit easier for us to pick a new car. Still limited to a car and a single trailer but will be a
bit easier.

You are not limited to single trailer if under B+E rules

 

[bluetrees]

You are not limited to single trailer if under B+E rules

No, but I don't think we will be getting a car that will tow a double due to the economies of running it daily/cost to buy initially. Therefore, it will probably be a chunky estate which will tow a single happily but still not enough oomph to pull a double. And seeing as hiring/borrowing for this year at least, not able to re plate to suit.

 

[ROG]

No, but I don't think we will be getting a car that will tow a double due to the economies of running it daily/cost to buy initially. Therefore, it will probably be a chunky estate which will tow a single happily but still not enough oomph to pull a double. And seeing as hiring/borrowing for this year at least, not able to re plate to suit.

Doubles are often cheaper than singles due to the fact that many need singles for B towing which is why the fetch a premium price these days

Take two trailers - HB505 double and HB 403 single - the weight difference is only about 125kg

 

[bluetrees]

Doubles are often cheaper than singles due to the fact that many need singles for B towing which is why the fetch a premium price these days

Take two trailers - HB505 double and HB 403 single - the weight difference is only about 125kg

I know......but I'm pretty sure my local hire place only has 511's so we won't have a car that can tow one of those. I will ring and ask them though in case they do have a 505. We will probably only have the car for a year anyway then upgrade again to something that can tow anything. (I'm sadly selling my landrover defender but right now it's not the right car for us.)

 

[bluetrees]

???? the towing website I've just been on says that the Max Gross Weight of a 505 is 2340kg and the Max Gross Weight of a 401 is 1600kg so that's more than 125kg? Are you saying that if I bought a 505 and downplated it, I could get it as low as 1725kg?

 

[ROG]

???? the towing website I've just been on says that the Max Gross Weight of a 505 is 2340kg and the Max Gross Weight of a 401 is 1600kg so that's more than 125kg? Are you saying that if I bought a 505 and downplated it, I could get it as low as 1725kg?

You are referring the the plated MAM weight and I was referring the empty weight as you mentioned the difference to the car 'grunt' when towing

B+E rules mean you can generally put any horse trailer behind the car and as long as the towing capacity or the MAM of the trailer is not exceeded it will be legal

Thought ..... have you been listening to some numpties where they say that the MAM cannot be more than the towing capacity ?

 

[bluetrees]

You are referring the the plated MAM weight and I was referring the empty weight as you mentioned the difference to the car 'grunt' when towing

B+E rules mean you can generally put any horse trailer behind the car and as long as the towing capacity or the MAM of the trailer is not exceeded it will be legal

Thought ..... have you been listening to some numpties where they say that the MAM cannot be more than the towing capacity ?

So can the towing capacity be less than the MAM? One of the cars we are looking at is the ssangyong Kyron which has a tow capacity of 2100 if not 4x4 version or 2300 if a 4x4 version. (Not sure if we will get a 4x4 version or not - depends what's out there) So all I have done is looked at the gross laden weight of Ifor 505 which is 2340 and assumed can't tow this as it's above either of the cars tow capacity. The Gross laden weight of the 401/403 is 1600kg so well within the 2100/2300?

 

[bluetrees]

I've found out a bit more about the Kyron....it's unladen weight is 1821 and it's gross weight is 2530. Can you show me the sums I need to work out if it can tow a 505 or the 401?

Thanks

 

[ROG]

So can the towing capacity be less than the MAM? One of the cars we are looking at is the ssangyong Kyron which has a tow capacity of 2100 if not 4x4 version or 2300 if a 4x4 version. (Not sure if we will get a 4x4 version or not - depends what's out there) So all I have done is looked at the gross laden weight of Ifor 505 which is 2340 and assumed can't tow this as it's above either of the cars tow capacity. The Gross laden weight of the 401/403 is 1600kg so well within the 2100/2300?

There is no law or rule which states that the towing capacity of the vehicle must be able to cope with the plated MAM of a trailer or vice versa but there are plenty of internet myths about ......

Both of these examples are legal

Vehicle towing capacity 2000 with 3500 MAM trailer where the trailer weighs 1000 empty and is loaded with 1000

Vehicle towing capacity 2000 with 1500 MAM trailer where the trailer weighs 1000 empty and is loaded with 500

 

[ROG]

I've found out a bit more about the Kyron....it's unladen weight is 1821 and it's gross weight is 2530. Can you show me the sums I need to work out if it can tow a 505 or the 401?

Thanks

What is either the GTW or the max towing weight capacity ?

What licence is this to be under - B or B+E ?

 

[bluetrees]

Can't find its GTW but it's max tow capacity is 2300. Most likely B & E but can it be done with just a B? Is it also a myth that if I got pulled over with a ifor 505 and only 1 horse and was in my tow limits, the police automatically go on the max laden weight of the trailer ( ie fully laden with 2 horses and stuff) because they just go off the plate on the trailer?

 

[ROG]

Can't find its GTW but it's max tow capacity is 2300. Most likely B & E but can it be done with just a B? Is it also a myth that if I got pulled over with a ifor 505 and only 1 horse and was in my tow limits, the police automatically go on the max laden weight of the trailer ( ie fully laden with 2 horses and stuff) because they just go off the plate on the trailer?

B licence = 2530GVW + 970MAM trailer

B+E licence = 2530GVW + 2300 tow capacity means any trailer not more than 3500MAM can be towed
Example = trailer MAM 3500 but 1000 empty = max trailer load of 1300 (1000 + 1300 = 2300)

 

[bluetrees]

B licence = 2530GVW + 970MAM trailer

B+E licence = 2530GVW + 2300 tow capacity means any trailer not more than 3500MAM can be towed
Example = trailer MAM 3500 but 1000 empty = max trailer load of 1300 (1000 + 1300 = 2300)

is the MAM the same as the Gross Laden Weight because when I look at the website for the Ifor Williams 511 it doesn't give a MAM but the unladen and laden weight?

Therefore if it is one and the same.....1000kg for unladen trailer, 550kg for horse leaving 750 for stuff = 2300. (B&E licence driver or a B driver supervised on L plates)

Right.....so the reason I thought this car couldn't pull a 511 at all is because I have been told regardless of if I am only towing 1 horse which as above is within the weight limits, the police go off the gross laden weight on the plate therefore this would take me over the tow capacity of the car. If this is another urban myth, then pretty much any of the cars we have been looking at and a 511 will be fine as long as I'm only taking one horse which would be the case.

Thanks

 

[ROG]

is the MAM the same as the Gross Laden Weight because when I look at the website for the Ifor Williams 511 it doesn't give a MAM but the unladen and laden weight?

Therefore if it is one and the same.....1000kg for unladen trailer, 550kg for horse leaving 750 for stuff = 2300. (B&E licence driver or a B driver supervised on L plates)

Right.....so the reason I thought this car couldn't pull a 511 at all is because I have been told regardless of if I am only towing 1 horse which as above is within the weight limits, the police go off the gross laden weight on the plate therefore this would take me over the tow capacity of the car. If this is another urban myth, then pretty much any of the cars we have been looking at and a 511 will be fine as long as I'm only taking one horse which would be the case.

Thanks

DEFFO A MYTH - one of the biggest ones on the internet

As all weight laws are the same across the categories then if it was true then LGVs towing trailers of any kind would need to up and down plate them many times each week !!!

You have the 1000 + 550 + 750 correct and have assumed correctly that IW laden weight is the MAM

 

[ROG]

Right.....so the reason I thought this car couldn't pull a 511 at all is because I have been told regardless of if I am only towing 1 horse which as above is within the weight limits, the police go off the gross laden weight on the plate therefore this would take me over the tow capacity of the car.

Sorry but I cannot resist doing this on the so called law of POTENTIAL ......

Driver - officer why have you stopped me cos I was doing 30 in this 30 limit ?
Officer - do you do 70 on the motorway ?
Driver - yes when the limit and condition allow me to
Officer - then I am booking you for the potential to do at least 70 in this 30 limit
Driver - what !!
Officer - open your boot ...... ooh what is this ? a gun case with a rifle in it ?
Driver - yes I am a certified gun licence holder and have just come from the shooting club up the road
Officer - right then .... I am now booking you for a potential murder you might commit using a firearm

I could not resist ............... potentially !

 

[bluetrees]

DEFFO A MYTH - one of the biggest ones on the internet

As all weight laws are the same across the categories then if it was true then LGVs towing trailers of any kind would need to up and down plate them many times each week !!!

You have the 1000 + 550 + 750 correct and have assumed correctly that IW laden weight is the MAM

Yay, thanks ROG, you have been very helpful It was much easier working things out with the landrover - it towed anything!!

 

[bluetrees]

Sorry but I cannot resist doing this on the so called law of POTENTIAL ......

Driver - officer why have you stopped me cos I was doing 30 in this 30 limit ?
Officer - do you do 70 on the motorway ?
Driver - yes when the limit and condition allow me to
Officer - then I am booking you for the potential to do at least 70 in this 30 limit
Driver - what !!
Officer - open your boot ...... ooh what is this ? a gun case with a rifle in it ?
Driver - yes I am a certified gun licence holder and have just come from the shooting club up the road
Officer - right then .... I am now booking you for a potential murder you might commit using a firearm

I could not resist ............... potentially !

When you put it like that!! LOL