Welcome to HHO Towing Clinic

[ROG]

i may have found a solution in te o license regs

in that an o license is not requited if towing with a "dual purpose" vehicle

and another one that states
vehicles constructed or adapted for carrying passenges and their effects (any trailer) and being used for that purpose.

this last one might not fit if i'm driving alone, but i'm happy that the first exemption fits the bill.

Interestingly i was at the Berkshire college of agriculture yesterday for the National Pony Society(NPS) equine careers day , giving a presentation on equine photography, and they had a MP there who was a former chairperson of the NPS, so i bent her ear about this and how darn difficult the eu regs are making all this, and why cant there be a simple exception for self employed or SME. She has promised to take this up the the transport minister and get back to me....i wont hold my breath

MPs in the UK cannot change EU parliament laws - they would need a majority of all MEPs in the EU parliament so asking a UK MP to take that on is a waste of time

There are various exemptions in the O licence regs so I would suggest that you find someone who knows the current regs inside out - perhaps a call or visit to your local VOSA test station .....

 

[ultimateimages]

Many thanks , a slight misunderstanding on what i was asking of her,

we discussed the regs, and agreed that it would in all likelihood catch people who were never intended to be caught, what i was asking for was clearer, more easily understandable information that could be downloaded and printed. she did infer that member states can set their own exceptions, byt again clarity on this was lacking.

always helps to have a friendly ear of someone in the right places i feel

 

[ROG]

Many thanks , a slight misunderstanding on what i was asking of her,

we discussed the regs, and agreed that it would in all likelihood catch people who were never intended to be caught, what i was asking for was clearer, more easily understandable information that could be downloaded and printed. she did infer that member states can set their own exceptions, byt again clarity on this was lacking.

always helps to have a friendly ear of someone in the right places i feel

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2006:102:0001:0013:EN:PDF
check articles 3 and 13 for exemptions

https://online.businesslink.gov.uk/Transport_Theme_files/Goods_vehicles_tachograph_hours_0511.pdf
That is the VOSA guide which is put in slighly simpler terms

 

[ROG]

This 4X4 and trailer set up is legal for B licence towing

2005 SUZUKI GRAND VITARA DIESEL ESTATE 2.0 TD SE 3DR TD 4X4
Kerb 1450 - UNLADEN would be around 1500
GVW 1850
Towing capacity 1600

IFOR WILLIAMS HB401 SINGLE HORSE TRAILER
Unladen 770
MAM 1600 - DOWNPLATED TO 1500
LOAD capacity 730

It might be useful to some.........

 

[perfect11s]

Many thanks , a slight misunderstanding on what i was asking of her,

we discussed the regs, and agreed that it would in all likelihood catch people who were never intended to be caught, what i was asking for was clearer, more easily understandable information that could be downloaded and printed. she did infer that member states can set their own exceptions, byt again clarity on this was lacking.

always helps to have a friendly ear of someone in the right places i feel

Best bet is to ask for a referendum on EU membership we would all be a lot better off!!!

 

[taranana]

This 4X4 and trailer set up is legal for B licence towing

2005 SUZUKI GRAND VITARA DIESEL ESTATE 2.0 TD SE 3DR TD 4X4
Kerb 1450 - UNLADEN would be around 1500
GVW 1850
Towing capacity 1600

IFOR WILLIAMS HB401 SINGLE HORSE TRAILER
Unladen 770
MAM 1600 - DOWNPLATED TO 1500
LOAD capacity 730

It might be useful to some.........

Hi ROG

I have waded through a lot of this post and this last bit caught my eye. I am currently looking to buy a towing vehicle - I do like the Vitara - and trailer so would the above Vitara tow an HB505/510 and 560 kg 16 hh horse. I passed my test in 1983 so believe I don't need to take another one. Is this correct?

Thanks

 

[ROG]

Hi ROG

I have waded through a lot of this post and this last bit caught my eye. I am currently looking to buy a towing vehicle - I do like the Vitara - and trailer so would the above Vitara tow an HB505/510 and 560 kg 16 hh horse. I passed my test in 1983 so believe I don't need to take another one. Is this correct?

Thanks

Licence = no worries as you have B+E

Going to be a bit close on weights with the HB510
The towing capacity is 1600 on the model I used

HB505
Unladen 905
MAM 2340
LOAD/horse 560
560+905=1465 so well within 1600

HB510
Unladen 1000
MAM 2584
LOAD/horse 560
560+1000=1560 so only just within the 1600 thats close

 

[ROG]

Good info from another post on this site

http://www.towinghorsetrailers.co.uk/towing_vehicles.htm

I found this helpful. Just put in the trailer model and horse weight and it gives you a list

 

[taranana]

Thanks very much. It would more than likely be a 505 anyway but good to know what the difference would be.

 

[ROG]

I came across this site which gives vehicle kerb weights and towing capacities
http://www.cuddles.abelgratis.net/kerbweights.htm
Not certain how accurate or up to date the info is on it but so far it seems ok

 

[Blitzen]

Further to my post in NL r.e B+E test, I'm considering either making adjustments to the trailer so I can tow it on a car licence, or just taking the test, and not being limited to only taking one horse out at a time (it would also mean I could get a 4x4, instead of trying to find a suitable towing car that won't struggle but will be the right weight!)

So.... Where would I even start? I live in mid Lincolnshire - are there any reputable driving schools/instructors in my area that do intensiive courses? I cannot for the life of me find my counterpart for my B licence (I'm going to conduct a thorough search at home and at my parents house!) - will I need it? Roughly how much should I budget for everything?

Do I even know what I'm letting myself in for???

 

[ROG]

Further to my post in NL r.e B+E test, I'm considering either making adjustments to the trailer so I can tow it on a car licence, or just taking the test, and not being limited to only taking one horse out at a time (it would also mean I could get a 4x4, instead of trying to find a suitable towing car that won't struggle but will be the right weight!)

So.... Where would I even start? I live in mid Lincolnshire - are there any reputable driving schools/instructors in my area that do intensiive courses? I cannot for the life of me find my counterpart for my B licence (I'm going to conduct a thorough search at home and at my parents house!) - will I need it? Roughly how much should I budget for everything?

Do I even know what I'm letting myself in for???

http://www.drivingschoolsinlouth.co.uk/page/b_e_trailer_towing
That's one - there are many others - google for B+E DRIVER TRAINING LINCOLNSHIRE

 

[Achinghips]

Hi hopefully someone can help me.
is there anything man enough to tow this weight legally?

Ifor Williams 511 with 16hh half shire/half Irish full up cob gelding and 15hh Irish cob mare?

My guess is that horse 1 weighs three quarters of a tonne and horse 2 half a tonne

Is there anything beast enough for the job please that'll have an 85% kerb weight for pulling approx 2300kg or will it only be a lorry?

Thanks

 

[ROG]

Hi hopefully someone can help me.
is there anything man enough to tow this weight legally?

Ifor Williams 511 with 16hh half shire/half Irish full up cob gelding and 15hh Irish cob mare?

My guess is that horse 1 weighs three quarters of a tonne and horse 2 half a tonne

Is there anything beast enough for the job please that'll have an 85% kerb weight for pulling approx 2300kg or will it only be a lorry?

Thanks

The 85% thing is for caravans and not other types of trailers

HB511 specifications
Unladen = 1000 kgs
MAM = 2700 kgs

Total of horses = 1250 kgs approx

Total to be towed including a few extras probably about 2500

There are vehicles on the market that can tow 3500 so finding one to tow 2500 should be quite easy

http://www.cuddles.abelgratis.net/kerbweights.htm
Have a look through that link above - select a vehicle and then see what its capable of towing

This site is even better - put in the weight you wish to tow and it comes up with a list of vehicles capable of towing that weight
http://www.towinghorsetrailers.co.uk/towing_vehicles.htm
Have fun!!

 

[Achinghips]

The 85% thing is for caravans and not other types of trailers

HB511 specifications
Unladen = 1000 kgs
MAM = 2700 kgs

Total of horses = 1250 kgs approx

Total to be towed including a few extras probably about 2500

There are vehicles on the market that can tow 3500 so finding one to tow 2500 should be quite easy

http://www.cuddles.abelgratis.net/kerbweights.htm
Have a look through that link above - select a vehicle and then see what its capable of towing

This site is even better - put in the weight you wish to tow and it comes up with a list of vehicles capable of towing that weight
http://www.towinghorsetrailers.co.uk/towing_vehicles.htm
Have fun!!

Yeeha!!!!!!!! Quashed hubbys argument. Stay off the M11 everyone! I'm off out with the chequebook!

 

[Ladydragon]

I'm not sure if there's an 'easy' answer to this query as I've completely lost track of the changes in licensing regarding towing etc, vehicle size/weight etc...

I passed my driving test in 1987 - at the time, purely so I could stay on the road with my motorbike... Paper license has gone walkies so I've got an application in for a the new version but I can't view the classifications on my license...

I know I used to legally tow a caravan and could drive a van up to a certain size and so on... Now I need to think about car/horse trailer/horse box combinations and just wondered if anyone can tell me off the top of their head what, if any, restrictions I should know about that have come into force more recently if they are going to apply to me?

Thank you...

 

[ROG]

I'm not sure if there's an 'easy' answer to this query as I've completely lost track of the changes in licensing regarding towing etc, vehicle size/weight etc...

I passed my driving test in 1987 - at the time, purely so I could stay on the road with my motorbike... Paper license has gone walkies so I've got an application in for a the new version but I can't view the classifications on my license...

I know I used to legally tow a caravan and could drive a van up to a certain size and so on... Now I need to think about car/horse trailer/horse box combinations and just wondered if anyone can tell me off the top of their head what, if any, restrictions I should know about that have come into force more recently if they are going to apply to me?

Thank you...

As a pre 1997 car licence holder your new photocard and paper licence will come back with these categoroies on the photocard bit -
not sure with M/C licences so will leave A alone but I can say for certain you will have .....
B
B+E
C1
C1+E restricted to 8.25 tonnes
D1 not for hire or reward
D1+E not for hire or reward

With regard to horseboxes of up to 7.5 tonnes or horsebox trailers up to 3500 kgs MAM - you are covered for those

 

[Ladydragon]

As a pre 1997 car licence holder your new photocard and paper licence will come back with these categoroies on the photocard bit -
not sure with M/C licences so will leave A alone but I can say for certain you will have .....
B
B+E
C1
C1+E restricted to 8.25 tonnes
D1 not for hire or reward
D1+E not for hire or reward

With regard to horseboxes of up to 7.5 tonnes or horsebox trailers up to 3500 kgs MAM - you are covered for those

That's very helpful... Thank you ROG... My m/c is/was A1 provisional under the car license pre the CBT changes - that bit I do know...

I can get back to the horsebox v towing vehicle + trailer pondering with out any worries now...

 

[Shearersgirl]

Hi hoping someone can help me with this one:

1. B licence
2. 1502 kg
3. 2025kg
4. 1500kg
5. 1600kg
6. 767kg

 

[ROG]

Hi hoping someone can help me with this one:

1. B licence
2. 1502 kg
3. 2025kg
4. 1500kg
5. 1600kg
6. 767kg

ILLEGAL as it stands but is easily remedied

Your trailer currently stands at 1600 and needs to be downplated to a maximum of 1475 (1475+2025=3500)

At 1475 you could still load 708 into the trailer

1475 would also then be under the 1502 vehicle unladen weight

 

[ROG]

Hi

Just realised it was your first post so WELCOME

 

[Shearersgirl]

ILLEGAL as it stands but is easily remedied

Your trailer currently stands at 1600 and needs to be downplated to a maximum of 1475 (1475+2025=3500)

At 1475 you could still load 708 into the trailer

1475 would also then be under the 1502 vehicle unladen weight

Thanks ROG, that's really helpful!

 

[fiona_davidson]

I have been told two different things about towing a car and trailer if you have a full HGV (rigid) licence. I thought I had to take a seperate test (I'm too young for grandfather rights), but have been told that wasn't the case??? Would love to hear what is correct?

Many thanks

 

[ROG]

I have been told two different things about towing a car and trailer if you have a full HGV (rigid) licence. I thought I had to take a seperate test (I'm too young for grandfather rights), but have been told that wasn't the case??? Would love to hear what is correct?

Many thanks

Firstly, WELCOME

Apart from the restrictive B licence towing rules all other categories require a +E to tow anything over 750 kgs plated MAM weight

Having a B licence and then getting the LGV C (or C1) rigid licence does nothing to the B licence

Having a B licence and then getting C+E (or C1+E) will upgrade the B to B+E but that B+E upgrade will only remain as long as the medical for the C+E is valid
The C categories could be exchanged for D categories and the outcome for the B categories will be the same.

Passing the once in a lifetime B+E test for a one off financial outlay means that that B+E will remain valid for as long as the B licence remains valid so basically for life !!

 

[Keltic]

I would need -
1 - What licence they hold - B or BE
2 - Unladen/empty weight of the towing vehicle
3 - GVW of the towing vehicle
4 - GTW and/or towing capacity of the towing vehicle
5 - Plated MAM of the trailer or if no plate then the load rating on the tyres
6 - Unladen/empty weight of the trailer "

Hi ive copied the info from your original post as above. This is my info if you can help

1 . BE
2. 1665
3. 2070
4. 2000
5. 1750
6. 820

Carrying 1 cob 450kg.

Thank you

____________________________

Weight: 1665 kg


Towing weight: 2000 kg

Maximum weigth with load: 2070 kg

 

[ROG]

This is my info if you can help

1 . BE
2. 1665
3. 2070
4. 2000
5. 1750
6. 820

Carrying 1 cob 450kg.

If you do not load the trailer with more than 930kg then you will be legal
930+820=1750
With a fully loaded trailer you will be within the 2000 towing capacity so that is not an issue

I know you have a B+E licence but for those wondering if it could be towed on a B licence the answer is not as it stands but if the trailer was downplated to 1400 then it would be although that would reduce the load amount from 930kg to 580kg

 

[Reindeer Rider]

1 - What licence they hold - B or BE
2 - Unladen/empty weight of the towing vehicle
3 - GVW of the towing vehicle
4 - GTW and/or towing capacity of the towing vehicle
5 - Plated MAM of the trailer or if no plate then the load rating on the tyres
6 - Unladen/empty weight of the trailer "


1 - B (passed test pre 97)
2 - 1460kg
3 - 1870kg
4 - 1600kg
5 - 1600kg
6 - 767kg

 

[ROG]

1 - B (passed test pre 97)
2 - 1460kg
3 - 1870kg
4 - 1600kg
5 - 1600kg
6 - 767kg

ILLEGAL on a B licence
One reason -
The 1600 MAM of the trailer is more than the 1460 unladen weight of the vehicle

To make this legal the trailer needs to be downplated to a maximum of 1460 which would leave a maximum load of 693 kgs

To those reading this -
I know that might seem pedantic because the 1600+1870=3470 which is under the 3500 maximum and its only 140 kgs outside the rules for the reason I gave but consider this ..... if stopped or an incident occured then it could invalidate the insurance and the driver could be prosecuted for not driving with the correct licence

 

[Reindeer Rider]

thanks Rog,

Is it legal on a B+E licence?

 

[ROG]

thanks Rog,

Is it legal on a B+E licence?

YES