ROG
Well-Known Member
Odd Q for the towing clinic !
Trade platers can usually do that ok or it can be taken on a LGV transporter - I have also seen similar on a transporter trailer being towed by a large van
Welcome to HHO Towing Clinic
- Thread starter tallyho!
- Start date
Trade platers can usually do that ok or it can be taken on a LGV transporter - I have also seen similar on a transporter trailer being towed by a large van
Michen
Well-Known Member
ROG
Well-Known Member
Assuming 505R is same as 505 then it is 905 empty needing a payload of say 545 totalling 1450 which means it needs down plating via contact with IW from 2340 to 1450 incurring a cost of about £50 along with a drill and a pop rivet gun
At 1450 MAM trailer leaves 2050 for the vehicle GVW
Some Xtrails are 2050 GVW with 1800 tow limit
Some Skoda Octavia 4x4 are also under 2050 GVW
These are all details from the carleasing site but also are generally ok for older used models
ROG
Well-Known Member
Not enough tow capacityROG now I've been going by gross vehicle weight, is this the same as 'Max Permissable Mass' which seems to be on most new car V5
Been to see a Volkswagen Golf - with a MPM of 2020 but the tow capacity is only 1400kg
Max permissible mass/MAM/GVW/MTPLM = all the same thing
Clannad48
Well-Known Member
Thanks ROG - I'll just have to keep on looking I hate car shopping
I hate car shopping Clannad48
Well-Known Member
ROG
Sadly disappointed again today - went to look at a vehicle Skoda Octavia Estate 1.8 TSI Laurin + Klement seemed fine on paper - the carleasing site quoted a GVW of 1830 with a towing capacity of 1800kg. Car was in perfect condition, within budget and both myself and my daughter liked it. However according to the V5 the actual figures are a GVW of 2000 with a towing capacity of 1300kg. I am losing the will to live.
Sadly disappointed again today - went to look at a vehicle Skoda Octavia Estate 1.8 TSI Laurin + Klement seemed fine on paper - the carleasing site quoted a GVW of 1830 with a towing capacity of 1800kg. Car was in perfect condition, within budget and both myself and my daughter liked it. However according to the V5 the actual figures are a GVW of 2000 with a towing capacity of 1300kg. I am losing the will to live.
ROG
Well-Known Member
There are many models in each so you probably got the worst for that particular model - keep searching
Or get a lighter trailer ........... if that is an option
cavalier123
Well-Known Member
Hi Rog, You advised me on my weights and I now have my Ford Mondeo for towing and need to get a tow bar - this raises another load of questions which I don't know the answer to.... One tow bar fitter mentioned electrics specific for my car that wire into the car computer system for stabilising, another fitter mentioned not worth bothering with.... can you give me some impartial advice, is it worth getting the specific car electrics (cost of an extra £150) or not? Also, not sure which towbar, does it make a difference swan neck or flange (don't want detachable...) and maybe I want an anti snaking device??? Thank you!
ROG
Well-Known Member
Unfortunately this is not my area of expertise
My expertise is limited to weights, licences and training
cavalier123
Well-Known Member
No worries, thanks anyway!
Have done some more digging and seems I won't need car specific electrics, or anti sway, so questions answered
Now off to get tow bar fitted.
Exciting times, not much more to do and we will be mobile!
Have done some more digging and seems I won't need car specific electrics, or anti sway, so questions answered
Now off to get tow bar fitted.
Exciting times, not much more to do and we will be mobile!
HappyAl
New User
Hi Rog,
I wondered if you could help me. I'm looking at upgrading my trailer and would love to get an Ifor Eventa (with live in) or the Show Treka.
My car is a 4x4 Kia Sorento (2006) 2.5 manual
Unbraked Towing Weight 750kg
Braked Towing Weight 2800kg
Ifor Eventa - Gross weight - 3500kg
Unladen - 1809kg
Oh.. and I have a B&E licence and will be towing only one horse (if that makes any difference)?!
Thanks so much for any help.
I wondered if you could help me. I'm looking at upgrading my trailer and would love to get an Ifor Eventa (with live in) or the Show Treka.
My car is a 4x4 Kia Sorento (2006) 2.5 manual
Unbraked Towing Weight 750kg
Braked Towing Weight 2800kg
Ifor Eventa - Gross weight - 3500kg
Unladen - 1809kg
Oh.. and I have a B&E licence and will be towing only one horse (if that makes any difference)?!
Thanks so much for any help.
ROG
Well-Known Member
Hi Rog,
I wondered if you could help me. I'm looking at upgrading my trailer and would love to get an Ifor Eventa (with live in) or the Show Treka.
My car is a 4x4 Kia Sorento (2006) 2.5 manual
Unbraked Towing Weight 750kg
Braked Towing Weight 2800kg
Ifor Eventa - Gross weight - 3500kg
Unladen - 1809kg
Oh.. and I have a B&E licence and will be towing only one horse (if that makes any difference)?!
Thanks so much for any help.
B+E = ok
Max tow weight 2800
Empty trailer = 1809
Max load for trailer = 991 kg
HappyAl
New User
Thank you so much, that's really helpful
ROG
Well-Known Member
Xmas bump
ROG
Well-Known Member
I am having a quiet time ........... wink
SOS
Well-Known Member
May I PM you a question regarding licensing ROG please? If the answer is yes how do I do this?
Apologies I am fairly new to the forum!
Apologies I am fairly new to the forum!
ROG
Well-Known Member
Do not do PMs
Prefer to answer all questions openly on here in case I make an error - if I give someone duff info then others can point that out
SOS
Well-Known Member
Oh okay, sorry for that.
I have a Landrover Defender 90 2.4 Litre as my vehicle, I am looking for a set up which would be possible to tow one, very pcassionaly two 16hh horses in a trailer. I am post 1997 licensing and therefore need to sit my trailer test.
Here are the questions I have:
Can my car legally tow two horses and a trailer without being over the weight limit?
Can you advise what trailer would be best for this?
As a just under 21 year old, what are the chances of me actually getting insured for this set up?
I have no experience towing but have oppurtunity to practice on private land on a concrete yard with a trailer if needed but would be looking at lessons obviously... if I did obtain a trailer before passing can you drive it on L plates and if so does the person need a B+E license or can they just had 'grandad rights'?
Thankyou ever so much for reading.
I have a Landrover Defender 90 2.4 Litre as my vehicle, I am looking for a set up which would be possible to tow one, very pcassionaly two 16hh horses in a trailer. I am post 1997 licensing and therefore need to sit my trailer test.
Here are the questions I have:
Can my car legally tow two horses and a trailer without being over the weight limit?
Can you advise what trailer would be best for this?
As a just under 21 year old, what are the chances of me actually getting insured for this set up?
I have no experience towing but have oppurtunity to practice on private land on a concrete yard with a trailer if needed but would be looking at lessons obviously... if I did obtain a trailer before passing can you drive it on L plates and if so does the person need a B+E license or can they just had 'grandad rights'?
Thankyou ever so much for reading.
ROG
Well-Known Member
SUPERVISING A B+E LEARNER
In April 2010 new rules were introduced for those supervising certain learner drivers but they only affected those supervising VOCATIONAL categories such as C1 C1+E D1 & D1+E where the supervising driver had those categories given to them for free when they passed a pre 1997 car test.
They do not affect those with a pre 1997 B+E licence who wish to supervise a B+E learner.
All B licence holders have B+E provisional on the paper part of their licence and can tow an empty or loaded trailer on all roads including motorways.
The usual rules apply when a learner is driving -
The supervising driver must be aged over 21
The supervising driver must have held a B+E licence for at least 3 years
L plates must be fitted to the front of the vehicle and the rear of the trailer
Correct insurance for a B+E learner
The supervising driver does not need to be insured unless they are driving
I need to know the top two figures (4 listed) on the vehicle weight plate which is usually hidden under the bonnet or in a door frame
You may be able to also get what I need from the keepers DVLA V5 form - max permissible mass + max towing weight
Once I have the figures I can help further
Type of trailer + Insurance = I have no idea so perhaps a separate post on the main forum will help on those issues
My knowledge is on driving licences and weights in regards to towing
Whoopit
Well-Known Member
I'm a bit confused about the below quote (from Gov website). I passed my driving test 05-Mar-2001 and recently updated my address on my driving licence. I'm sure I had BE on it (I've never taken an extra licence test) and this one doesn't. Like an idiot, I didn't copy the original licence to check (Dad years ago came back with just a car licence on it and he has a licence for literally everything!)
Might I have had the BE on it or am I reading the below incorrectly?? I know I still need to do a test to tow all-in over 3.5t.
Category B - if you passed your test on or after 1 January 1997
You can drive vehicles up to 3,500kg MAM with up to 8 passenger seats (with a trailer up to 750kg).
You can also tow heavier trailers if the total MAM of the vehicle and trailer isnt more than 3,500kg.
You can drive motor tricycles with a power output higher than 15kW if you are over 21 years old.
Physically disabled drivers with provisional category B entitlement will also have provisional entitlement to ride category A1 or A motor tricycles.
Able-bodied drivers can no longer ride motor tricycles with a provisional category B licence.
Category B auto
You can drive a category B vehicle - but only an automatic one.
Category BE
You can drive a vehicle with a MAM of 3,500kg with a trailer.
The size of the trailer depends on when you passed your test. If you passed your test:
o before 19 January 2013 you can tow any size trailer (itll say category B+E on your licence)
o on or after 19 January 2013 you can tow a trailer with a MAM of up to 3,500kg
Might I have had the BE on it or am I reading the below incorrectly?? I know I still need to do a test to tow all-in over 3.5t.
Category B - if you passed your test on or after 1 January 1997
You can drive vehicles up to 3,500kg MAM with up to 8 passenger seats (with a trailer up to 750kg).
You can also tow heavier trailers if the total MAM of the vehicle and trailer isnt more than 3,500kg.
You can drive motor tricycles with a power output higher than 15kW if you are over 21 years old.
Physically disabled drivers with provisional category B entitlement will also have provisional entitlement to ride category A1 or A motor tricycles.
Able-bodied drivers can no longer ride motor tricycles with a provisional category B licence.
Category B auto
You can drive a category B vehicle - but only an automatic one.
Category BE
You can drive a vehicle with a MAM of 3,500kg with a trailer.
The size of the trailer depends on when you passed your test. If you passed your test:
o before 19 January 2013 you can tow any size trailer (itll say category B+E on your licence)
o on or after 19 January 2013 you can tow a trailer with a MAM of up to 3,500kg
Archie07
Well-Known Member
Looking at the Dacia Duster for towing a very light single horse trailer and a 550kg pony on a B licence.
Duster specs:
Kerb weight (excluding driver): 1,325kg
GTW: 3,375kg
Max towing weight braked (driver only): 1,500kg
Max towing weight unbraked (driver only): 695kg
Duster specs:
Kerb weight (excluding driver): 1,325kg
GTW: 3,375kg
Max towing weight braked (driver only): 1,500kg
Max towing weight unbraked (driver only): 695kg
ROG
Well-Known Member
You never had BE on it
The rules for B licence towing have never changed no mater when it was obtained
Those with pre 97 licences were given a free B+E and other categories
ROG
Well-Known Member
Is that what it says on the DVLA V5 keepers form ?
ROG
Well-Known Member
Which model from this list is it ? = https://www.carleasingmadesimple.com/data/dacia/duster/gross-vehicle-weight/
ROG
Well-Known Member
DACIA DUSTER towing on a B licence
You could have a IW HB401/3 plated at 1600 but as it is about 780 empty and the max tow for the Duster is 1500 then the max load for the trailer will be 720kg so a 550 horse is no problem
You could have a IW HB401/3 plated at 1600 but as it is about 780 empty and the max tow for the Duster is 1500 then the max load for the trailer will be 720kg so a 550 horse is no problem
ROG
Well-Known Member
The 'driver only' bit confused me and I have just figured out that it means nothing
I think this is your model weight specs
Weight and Capacities
Gross vehicle weight 1875 kg
Max loading weight 550 kg
Max towing weight - braked 1500 kg
Max towing weight - unbraked 695 kg
Unladen weight 1325 kg
tallyho!
Following a strict mediterranean diet...
Not bad for those Dusters...
Archie07
Well-Known Member
Sorry ROG, thanks! The Duster looks like a good option then for a B licence single trailer...
ROG
Well-Known Member
it does providing the trailer plated weight is not over 1600 - if it is then it will need down plating by the trailer manufacturer
Last edited:
ROG
Well-Known Member
POST NUMBER 3000 so this one is mine as its easy to refer to
Trailer towing:- B and B+E licence rules explained
Licensing laws are based on plated weights not actual weights.
GVW, MAM or MTPLM means maximum permissible legal weight when fully loaded.
The towing vehicle GVW can be obtained from the V5 registered keepers form listed as maximum permissible mass, the handbook, or a plate somewhere on the vehicle – usually under bonnet or hidden in a door frame – the top figure is always the GVW.
Towing capacity (manufacturer actual towing weight limit) – not legally enforceable in the RTA but based on safety and engine power under certain conditions.
GTW - the max legal weight the vehicle and trailer can ACTUALLY weigh when added together. This does not refer to the total of the vehicle GWV and trailer MAM weights.
In most cases, the GVW added to the towing capacity will also be the GTW.
The trailer info can be obtained from a plate on the trailer, by calling the trailer manufacturer, or on the internet. If no plate then the total of the TYRE LOAD RATINGS http://www.blackcircles.com/general/load-rating will be used by the authorities to determine the MAM to a maximum of 3500 even if the total is more than that.
There is no law or rule which states that the towing capacity of a vehicle must be able to cope with the plated MAM of a trailer but there are plenty of internet myths on this.
The only legally recognised way to down plate a trailer of 3500 kgs MAM or less is to contact the trailer manufacturer usually at very little cost.
The laws/rules are these for both B+E & B licence towing.
The GVW of the vehicle must not be exceeded (RTA law)
The GTW must not be exceeded (RTA law)
The plated MAM of the trailer must not be exceeded (RTA law).
The towing capacity should not be exceeded (can be prosecutable under C&U regulation 100).
The lower of the trailer MAM or the towing capacity must/should be used as the maximum actual weight when loaded.
For B licence towing with a trailer over 750 kgs MAM.
The vehicle GVW added to the trailer MAM must not exceed 3500 kg (RTA law)
EXAMPLE
Vehicle
GVW 2050 kg
Towing capacity 1700 kg
GTW 3750 kg
Trailer
Un-laden/empty 700 kg
MAM 2000 kg
For B+E licence towing the trailer can be loaded with 1000 kgs because 1000+700=1700 kg which is the towing capacity.
For B licence towing the trailer would need down plating from 2000 kgs to a maximum of 1450 kg.
The reason is that 1450+2050=3500 which is the maximum allowed for B licence towing.
The trailer can be loaded with 750 kg because 750+700=1450 kg which is the trailer MAM.
Caravan weights work on a slightly different system as they take into account the recommended (not legal) 85% towing advice.
SUPERVISING A B+E LEARNER
In April 2010 new rules were introduced for those supervising certain learner drivers but they only affected those supervising VOCATIONAL categories such as C1 C1+E D1 & D1+E where the supervising driver had those categories given to them for free when they passed a pre 1997 car test.
They do not affect those with a pre 1997 B+E licence who wish to supervise a B+E learner.
All B licence holders have B+E provisional on the paper part of their licence and can tow an empty or loaded trailer on all roads including motorways.
The usual rules apply when a learner is driving -
The supervising driver must be aged over 21
The supervising driver must have held a B+E licence for at least 3 years
L plates must be fitted to the front of the vehicle and the rear of the trailer
Correct insurance for a B+E learner
The supervising driver does not need to be insured unless they are driving
The B+E test
No medical or theory test required
Read a number plate from a certain distance
VIDEO - Show Me Tell Me Questions = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqw6Ua3kmFc&feature=related - usually 5
The next three can be in any order:-
VIDEO - Reversing Exercise = http://www.drivesafedriving.co.uk/b_e_rev_movie.htm - done in test centre grounds if test conducted from practical test centre - some tests are now being done from training school grounds
DSA REVERSING TEST AREA DIAGRAM = https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa..._PCV_BE_manoeuvring_exercise_area_diagram.pdf
VIDEO - Uncouple/couple up = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ao_5KOe8dGg&feature=related - done in test centre grounds if test conducted from practical test centre - some tests are now being done from training school grounds
One hour road drive - includes the independent drive and is done virtually the same as the basic car test
The trailer must now be loaded with 600 kgs of sand bags or a 1000 kgs water IBC for the test so most companies are now training with that weight in the trailer = https://www.gov.uk/new-laden-testing-rules-for-driving-test-vehicles
Well explained here = http://www.trailertraining-wales.co.uk/test.html
DISCLAIMER - I have no connection to any companies which may be featured in those videos
This is interesting BUT NOT RECOMMENDED – a B licence towing set up can be presented for the B+E test but L plates must be used for the test that means you can train yourself, go to test by yourself, fit L plates, do the test, then, pass or fail, remove L plates and drive away by yourself.
DSA B+E TEST AND VEHICLE/TRAILER REQUIREMENTS = http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/DriverLicensing/CaravansTrailersCommercialVehicles/DG_4022521
Remember that the required 600 kgs of sand bags or 1 x 1000 IBC filled with water will be required in the trailer and the load must be secure.
Please post with as much of this info as you can if you want me to answer a specific query - weights in kg please
LICENCE
B or B+E =
VEHICLE
GVW =
Towing capacity =
TRAILER
Un-laden/empty =
MAM =
Trailer towing:- B and B+E licence rules explained
Licensing laws are based on plated weights not actual weights.
GVW, MAM or MTPLM means maximum permissible legal weight when fully loaded.
The towing vehicle GVW can be obtained from the V5 registered keepers form listed as maximum permissible mass, the handbook, or a plate somewhere on the vehicle – usually under bonnet or hidden in a door frame – the top figure is always the GVW.
Towing capacity (manufacturer actual towing weight limit) – not legally enforceable in the RTA but based on safety and engine power under certain conditions.
GTW - the max legal weight the vehicle and trailer can ACTUALLY weigh when added together. This does not refer to the total of the vehicle GWV and trailer MAM weights.
In most cases, the GVW added to the towing capacity will also be the GTW.
The trailer info can be obtained from a plate on the trailer, by calling the trailer manufacturer, or on the internet. If no plate then the total of the TYRE LOAD RATINGS http://www.blackcircles.com/general/load-rating will be used by the authorities to determine the MAM to a maximum of 3500 even if the total is more than that.
There is no law or rule which states that the towing capacity of a vehicle must be able to cope with the plated MAM of a trailer but there are plenty of internet myths on this.
The only legally recognised way to down plate a trailer of 3500 kgs MAM or less is to contact the trailer manufacturer usually at very little cost.
The laws/rules are these for both B+E & B licence towing.
The GVW of the vehicle must not be exceeded (RTA law)
The GTW must not be exceeded (RTA law)
The plated MAM of the trailer must not be exceeded (RTA law).
The towing capacity should not be exceeded (can be prosecutable under C&U regulation 100).
The lower of the trailer MAM or the towing capacity must/should be used as the maximum actual weight when loaded.
For B licence towing with a trailer over 750 kgs MAM.
The vehicle GVW added to the trailer MAM must not exceed 3500 kg (RTA law)
EXAMPLE
Vehicle
GVW 2050 kg
Towing capacity 1700 kg
GTW 3750 kg
Trailer
Un-laden/empty 700 kg
MAM 2000 kg
For B+E licence towing the trailer can be loaded with 1000 kgs because 1000+700=1700 kg which is the towing capacity.
For B licence towing the trailer would need down plating from 2000 kgs to a maximum of 1450 kg.
The reason is that 1450+2050=3500 which is the maximum allowed for B licence towing.
The trailer can be loaded with 750 kg because 750+700=1450 kg which is the trailer MAM.
Caravan weights work on a slightly different system as they take into account the recommended (not legal) 85% towing advice.
SUPERVISING A B+E LEARNER
In April 2010 new rules were introduced for those supervising certain learner drivers but they only affected those supervising VOCATIONAL categories such as C1 C1+E D1 & D1+E where the supervising driver had those categories given to them for free when they passed a pre 1997 car test.
They do not affect those with a pre 1997 B+E licence who wish to supervise a B+E learner.
All B licence holders have B+E provisional on the paper part of their licence and can tow an empty or loaded trailer on all roads including motorways.
The usual rules apply when a learner is driving -
The supervising driver must be aged over 21
The supervising driver must have held a B+E licence for at least 3 years
L plates must be fitted to the front of the vehicle and the rear of the trailer
Correct insurance for a B+E learner
The supervising driver does not need to be insured unless they are driving
The B+E test
No medical or theory test required
Read a number plate from a certain distance
VIDEO - Show Me Tell Me Questions = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqw6Ua3kmFc&feature=related - usually 5
The next three can be in any order:-
VIDEO - Reversing Exercise = http://www.drivesafedriving.co.uk/b_e_rev_movie.htm - done in test centre grounds if test conducted from practical test centre - some tests are now being done from training school grounds
DSA REVERSING TEST AREA DIAGRAM = https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa..._PCV_BE_manoeuvring_exercise_area_diagram.pdf
VIDEO - Uncouple/couple up = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ao_5KOe8dGg&feature=related - done in test centre grounds if test conducted from practical test centre - some tests are now being done from training school grounds
One hour road drive - includes the independent drive and is done virtually the same as the basic car test
The trailer must now be loaded with 600 kgs of sand bags or a 1000 kgs water IBC for the test so most companies are now training with that weight in the trailer = https://www.gov.uk/new-laden-testing-rules-for-driving-test-vehicles
Well explained here = http://www.trailertraining-wales.co.uk/test.html
DISCLAIMER - I have no connection to any companies which may be featured in those videos
This is interesting BUT NOT RECOMMENDED – a B licence towing set up can be presented for the B+E test but L plates must be used for the test that means you can train yourself, go to test by yourself, fit L plates, do the test, then, pass or fail, remove L plates and drive away by yourself.
DSA B+E TEST AND VEHICLE/TRAILER REQUIREMENTS = http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/DriverLicensing/CaravansTrailersCommercialVehicles/DG_4022521
Remember that the required 600 kgs of sand bags or 1 x 1000 IBC filled with water will be required in the trailer and the load must be secure.
Please post with as much of this info as you can if you want me to answer a specific query - weights in kg please
LICENCE
B or B+E =
VEHICLE
GVW =
Towing capacity =
TRAILER
Un-laden/empty =
MAM =