Welfare issues with polo?

cptrayes said:
Good, I'm very glad to hear that. I just wonder if that's the case why there is so much of it on every YouTube video of any decent length, much of it off the ball where it would not be noticed by live spectators following the flow of play.
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I've never watched polo on YouTube so can't comment!! I know at grassroots level with us, we would get a stern ticking off if the riding was any any way rough, (I have been ticked off for looking too rough when trying to keep a VERY excited horse under control on one occasion, which one handed as a novice player was not easy, where I felt it was a bit harsh of them, so I'd have said at our level erred on the side of caution) - and I only remember once seeing any real rough riding as a spectator, where a guy rode off too hard and his horse ended up slipping and he was thrown off - he had a new one ripped for him because he might have damaged the horse, never mind him coming off!

I can't speak for the whole sport in any way, but my experience was very positive - more so than the occasions I've watched racing, or the reaction riding clubs have had when I've been FJing and riders have been reported for whip abuse/dangerous riding.
 
My conclusion is -

Are there welfare issues with polo? Yes.
Are there welfare issues with dressage? Yes.
Are there welfare issues with showjumping? Yes.
Are there welfare issues with eventing/showing/hunting? Yes.

Are there welfare issues with some people who keep their horses for 'happy hacking'? Yes.

I could go on, but you get my drift. It's not about any number of wrongs making a right. We seem to be down to arguing about whether one thing has 'more' or 'worse' welfare issues than another. It's an incredibly complex argument that is unlikely to lead to any firm conclusion.
 
Nancykitt said:
My conclusion is -

Are there welfare issues with polo? Yes.
Are there welfare issues with dressage? Yes.
Are there welfare issues with showjumping? Yes.
Are there welfare issues with eventing/showing/hunting? Yes.

Are there welfare issues with some people who keep their horses for 'happy hacking'? Yes.

I could go on, but you get my drift. It's not about any number of wrongs making a right. We seem to be down to arguing about whether one thing has 'more' or 'worse' welfare issues than another. It's an incredibly complex argument that is unlikely to lead to any firm conclusion.
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Perfectly put!
 
Nancykitt said:
My conclusion is -

Are there welfare issues with polo? Yes.
Are there welfare issues with dressage? Yes.
Are there welfare issues with showjumping? Yes.
Are there welfare issues with eventing/showing/hunting? Yes.

Are there welfare issues with some people who keep their horses for 'happy hacking'? Yes.

I could go on, but you get my drift. It's not about any number of wrongs making a right. We seem to be down to arguing about whether one thing has 'more' or 'worse' welfare issues than another. It's an incredibly complex argument that is unlikely to lead to any firm conclusion.
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This.
The which is worse argument always provides a distraction from any specific issues that might be relevant to horses well being.
 
Perfectly put it may have been, but imo it is a flawed argument. We shouldn't diminish what may be a valid welfare concern by comparison with other valid welfare concerns. That's because end result of doing so may be that nothing is done about this (or any other) welfare issue. And saying that a firm conclusion is unlikely may be true but is also an unwarranted "counsel of despair".
 
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fburton said:
Perfectly put it may have been, but imo it is a flawed argument. We shouldn't diminish what may be a valid welfare concern by comparison with other valid welfare concerns. That's because end result of doing so may be that nothing is done about this (or any other) welfare issue. And saying that a firm conclusion is unlikely may be true but is also an unwarranted "counsel of despair".
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I wasn't actually advocating comparing one thing with another - infact, I am very much against this approach, which is why I mentioned it.
Equally, I don't believe it is possible to say that any one of the things mentioned above is inherently good or bad. It depends on so many things. I think that's the main point I was trying to make - that we should be vigilant about welfare issues in all spheres rather than focus on a particular discipline.
 
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SpringArising said:
One of the most irrelevant and odd comments I've even seen on HHO!
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Not at all. I really do wonder if some of you 'horsemen' can actually see beyond the 'pretty pony' style of horse keeping.

You would gain far more respect by campaigning for the welfare of horses like that poor mare or the thousands of horses that have never seen the inside of a feed bucket or heard a kind word in their, often very short, lives.

Your expertise, experience and opinions on polo, racing, hunting, eventing, dressage the Kings Troop, western riding, lets add showjumping, I am watching Aachen at the moment, bit of rolkur going on and plenty of yanking and pulling going on, is shall we say, a little suspect judging by some of the ridiculous statements being spouted.

All the equines taking part in the aforementioned activities will have been fed, kept warm, given shelter and veterinary care as required and in return they work for our pleasure, gratification, monetary gain and prestige. So shall we ban horse sports. Shall we stop breeding high calibre equines. What shall we do the millions of horses, put them in a paddock, admire them from afar, put a bit of bling on them, I will let you decide.

That mare has stood in muck for months, starved and neglected, there are many more like her. It is her and her like that need welfare care.
 
Thanks for clarifying your position, Nancykitt. I agree that these sort of comparisons are not particularly helpful. At least, I don't like the way they distract from the issue under discussion.
 
AdorableAlice said:
You would gain far more respect by campaigning for the welfare of horses like that poor mare or the thousands of horses that have never seen the inside of a feed bucket or heard a kind word in their, often very short, lives.
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It surely possible (and right) to do both; one shouldn't preclude the other.
 
AdorableAlice said:
Not at all. I really do wonder if some of you 'horsemen' can actually see beyond the 'pretty pony' style of horse keeping.
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If you're looking to discuss this topic with a fluffy somebody who treats her horses as children, then I'm afraid you're talking to the wrong person here.

That being said, I show my 'care' for my horses in other ways. I don't over bit, over tack or use force to get to where I want to be. That's what we're talking about here; not which horse has seen the inside of a feed bucket. Frankly, if you think the horses are fine and happy just because they have access to feed and a vet, then you live in a very blissful (abeit ignorant) world.
 
I must have misunderstood Nancykitt's post. I took it as a commentary on the way the thread has gone.

ps. I don't own one single piece of bling if that's how one measures horsemanship! It's not a measure I use.
 
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SpringArising said:
If you're looking to discuss this topic with a fluffy somebody who treats her horses as children, then I'm afraid you're talking to the wrong person here.

That being said, I show my 'care' for my horses in other ways. I don't over bit, over tack or use force to get to where I want to be. That's what we're talking about here; not which horse has seen the inside of a feed bucket. Frankly, if you think the horses are fine and happy just because they have access to feed and a vet, then you live in a very blissful (abeit ignorant) world.
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Having been on the end of your sharp barbed tongue and also been accused of not being in the real world, do you think before you throw such statements?
You, cpt and moomin1 have kept this thread going and going. When someone responds, they get shot down by 1 of the 3 of you.
One poster has put up a well thought, diffusing post, and still this thread gets dragged down.
Can you 3 just take a step back and allow others to also have opinions, all valid as well as yours?
 
The Fuzzy Furry said:
Having been on the end of your sharp barbed tongue and also been accused of not being in the real world, do you think before you throw such statements?
You, cpt and moomin1 have kept this thread going and going. When someone responds, they get shot down by 1 of the 3 of you.
One poster has put up a well thought, diffusing post, and still this thread gets dragged down.
Can you 3 just take a step back and allow others to also have opinions, all valid as well as yours?
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It's called debate.
 
The Fuzzy Furry said:
Having been on the end of your sharp barbed tongue and also been accused of not being in the real world, do you think before you throw such statements?
You, cpt and moomin1 have kept this thread going and going. When someone responds, they get shot down by 1 of the 3 of you.
One poster has put up a well thought, diffusing post, and still this thread gets dragged down.
Can you 3 just take a step back and allow others to also have opinions, all valid as well as yours?
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I stayed out for days until people posted some daft things. It wassn't me that kept it going, and if it had been, why do you blame us and not the other side of the argument?

IT TAKES TWO!

And what a ridiculous thing to suggest, that we are preventing anyone from expressing their point of view.
 
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cptrayes said:
I stayed out for days until people posted some daft things. It wassn't me that kept it going, and if it had been, why do you blame us and not the other side of the argument?

IT TAKES TWO!

And what a ridiculous thing to suggest, that we are preventing anyone from expressing their point of view.
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I disagree regarding polo, but agree with you here. Up til now I thought this thread had stayed reasonably insult-free-ish... for HHO ;)
 
The Fuzzy Furry said:
a debate is something where a subject is discussed, look back at the hectoring posts, this is not debate.
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The subject has been discussed. There are many different opinions. People have not agreed with each other. It's a debate and discussion. What are we meant to do? Suddenly agree with your view? Or agree with the fact that some people think unless you have played polo or worked on a polo yard and see how much feed they get or what nice boots they wear then we have no right to make a judgement on welfare (which had nothing to do with feed, vets or expensive boots, but purely down to match play, style of riding and use of tack)?
 
So CPtrayes/Moomin, what would you like to see changed in polo?

CPtrayes you do dressage, there is just as much cruelty in that? yet you continue to support it?
 
AdorableAlice said:
That mare has stood in muck for months, starved and neglected, there are many more like her. It is her and her like that need welfare care.
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First time in my life that I've ever been accused of being a fluffy bunny :D

That mare was not part of an organised sport frequently played in front of paying crowds as entertainment for both players and spectators.

Two wrongs don't make a right.
 
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zigzag said:
So CPtrayes/Moomin, what would you like to see changed in polo?

CPtrayes you do dressage, there is just as much cruelty in that? yet you continue to support it?
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I want to see polo played only by ponies that have the aptitude to pay it without being heavily restrained and roughly ridden. We have already been told that such ponies exist. I want to hear occasional reports of rough riders being disciplined. I want a weight limit on riders - which is new since I read the arguments on this thread.

I have never seen anything during the course of a dressage competition happen in the ring in front of an audience that remotely compares to the pictures I put up above. And if I had, the horse would have been eliminated and the rider probably banned for a period.
 
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zigzag said:
So CPtrayes/Moomin, what would you like to see changed in polo?

CPtrayes you do dressage, there is just as much cruelty in that? yet you continue to support it?
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I thought that was pretty obvious. I would want less use of the bit/harsh use of the bit and riding style. If that's not possible due to game logistics, then personally I would want it banned. End of.
 
cptrayes said:
I want to see poll played only by ponies that have the aptitude to pay it without being heavily restrained and roughly ridden. I want to hear reports of rough riders being disciplined.

I have never seen anything during the course of a dressage competition happen in the ring in front of a crowd that remotely compared to the pictures I put up above. And if I had, the horse would have been eliminated and the rider probably banned for a period.
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So the fact cruelty goes on behind closed doors is ok?
 
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