Well this is a can of worms

[FfionWinnie]

It seems to me that most on that forum have had no instruction and have no idea what they are doing. I'd like to think that if they did, they would not be putting bridles on backward or getting on obviously unsuitable horses.
I can only imagine the unkind words that would be directed towards them if they posted those photos on the forum that I frequent.

Heavy riders need a suitable horse, period.

Yes I agree with you, the upside down tack and backwards bridles points to complete ignorance. Several posters stated the bit was too small or too large for the horse and that was why it was so fussy in its mouth (wtf!). That is nothing to do with their size it's just complete ignorance.

Secondly, them all saying their horses carry them fine because they don't brace when they get on eek or sweat on a 7 hour trail ride eek and if anyone says anything to bring them to reality it is written off as being a sizest comment and just them being mean. That is also complete ignorance and something else I can't think of the word for just now!

 

[Clava]

Yes I agree with you, the upside down tack and backwards bridles points to complete ignorance. Several posters stated the bit was too small or too large for the horse and that was why it was so fussy in its mouth (wtf!). That is nothing to do with their size it's just complete ignorance.

Secondly, them all saying their horses carry them fine because they don't brace when they get on eek or sweat on a 7 hour trail ride eek and if anyone says anything to bring them to reality it is written off as being a sizest comment and just them being mean. That is also complete ignorance and something else I can't think of the word for just now!

Do you think the forum itself tolerating such a thread (showing possible cruelty?) without negative comments being able to be posted acceptable? I totally agree that it is ignorance (but they aren't being enlightened for some reason), but I also think that in the UK there is no way that people would be tolerated to ride such horses at such sizes so there is a difference across the water.

 

[spookypony]

WFP'S saddles are made longer on the flap and knee roll. The more of your thigh you have on the saddle the less stable you are and if someone thinks their knees are too long past the shoulder, the saddle needs to come back a bit further as it could be too far forward.

So really, it's a similar thing to the saddles I'm looking at, where it's the horsey bit of the saddle that's made at 17", and the personey bit that's adjusted to the limb length of the rider. The panel length may be that of a 17" saddle, but it's a touch confusing to call it a plain old 17".

I wonder how big the difference is that can be accommodated without compromising the function in some sort of way? For example, could a saddle go as far as 16.5" for a horse, and 18" for the rider? There must be a limit?

 

[FfionWinnie]

Do you think the forum itself tolerating such a thread (showing possible cruelty?) without negative comments being able to be posted acceptable? I totally agree that it is ignorance (but they aren't being enlightened for some reason), but I also think that in the UK there is no way that people would be tolerated to ride such horses at such sizes so there is a difference across the water.

There were 89 pages and there was one negative comment. The negative comment was (from memory). "I'm sorry, I don't want to upset you but you are too heavy for that horse". It wasn't on a quoted response so unclear as to which one they were talking about. I think only one other poster jumped on this comment and said basically the person was being mean and didn't know what they were talking about as they all knew their horses better blah blah. Everyone else ignored it completely. I think there were so many "pro plus size" posters that any attempt to educate would be trampled (sorry ) into the mud. Any one who said anything at all would just be consider mean.

 

[FfionWinnie]

So really, it's a similar thing to the saddles I'm looking at, where it's the horsey bit of the saddle that's made at 17", and the personey bit that's adjusted to the limb length of the rider. The panel length may be that of a 17" saddle, but it's a touch confusing to call it a plain old 17".

I wonder how big the difference is that can be accommodated without compromising the function in some sort of way? For example, could a saddle go as far as 16.5" for a horse, and 18" for the rider? There must be a limit?

It's what I have been banging on about the whole thread. Seat size does not mean directly the length the saddle takes up on the horses back.

I am getting adaptions on my 17.5 inch saddle to accommodate my long legs and the pony is only 13.2hh with a short back. The saddle doesn't go past the last rib because the design of it. I have a 16 inch saddle here which is LONGER over all than the 17.5 inch and utterly uncomfortable for me to sit in compared to the 17.5 inch I have on loan til mine is made.

 

[YasandCrystal]

Whilst I agree with many comments on this thread (I am very large and wouldn't dream of riding a horse at anywhere near my current weight) I do think that some of the comments towards the people who bravely put their pics up on the US thread are a bit unfair, I hope to goodness none of them stumble across this thread

WelshD nothing brave about it imo - the thing is these oversized folk have put themselves onto a website for all to see - they clearly are happy with the fact that they are riding at such heavy weights or they are seeking approval. I think some comments have become OTT simply because some of the pictures are laughable - one lady's bottom was so big it almost hid the entire western saddle and the lady was on a TB type.

We cannot expect to just do as we please in this life with no regard in this case for the poor weight bearer - the horse. Noone has a birth right to ride horses - it is our duty as riders to ensure we are not under horsed and to become proficient riders so the horse we ride is comfortable etc.

An oversized person cannot become a ballet dancer - end of.... As with any sport one needs to have a level of fitness and these people on this website in many cases quite obviously do not. Noone would complain if they took up jogging and gave the roads a pounding, but a poor uncomplaining horse - no! It's wrong and I cannot fathom how these folk can be so arrogant as to think otherwise.

 

[spookypony]

It's what I have been banging on about the whole thread. Seat size does not mean directly the length the saddle takes up on the horses back.

I am getting adaptions on my 17.5 inch saddle to accommodate my long legs and the pony is only 13.2hh with a short back. The saddle doesn't go past the last rib because the design of it. I have a 16 inch saddle here which is LONGER over all than the 17.5 inch and utterly uncomfortable for me to sit in compared to the 17.5 inch I have on loan til mine is made.

Yes, exactly. I was just wanting to understand if the 17" saddle that WFP uses, which had been cited as an example earlier, fell into that same category, which according to tallyho! it does.

I don't think that my riding in a regular 17" GP is doing my pony's back any favours at all, and I'll be doing some serious saddle searching during the off-season. There's also a different degree of tolerance, I think, between sitting in a saddle for 1 hour, or sitting in one for 8 hours.

 

[combat_claire]

the poor lad stood like a saint while she took hold of her ankle and hoisted it over his bum. The BF from the other side took hold of her ankle and dragged it over the cantle so her inner calf was resting on his saddle. She kind of hopped across the wobbly flagstones, and managed to get her knee across the saddle. He then took hold of her ankle and physically dragged her into place amid lots of huffing and puffing. She took five minutes to recover from the ordeal before asking him to walk on. 8o

OMG Kat I have just snorted my drink through my nose reading this! I do feel very sorry for the horse but it was funny to picture the scene....

 

[FfionWinnie]

Yes, exactly. I was just wanting to understand if the 17" saddle that WFP uses, which had been cited as an example earlier, fell into that same category, which according to tallyho! it does.

I don't think that my riding in a regular 17" GP is doing my pony's back any favours at all, and I'll be doing some serious saddle searching during the off-season. There's also a different degree of tolerance, I think, between sitting in a saddle for 1 hour, or sitting in one for 8 hours.

The saddler explained it to me really well what they could do but I can't remember the terminology well enough to explain it.

I am getting a standard 17.5 inch saddle the same style as this one (which is a standard off the peg 17.5 inch loan saddle):


My saddle has an extra 1.5 inch knee roll, double memory foam seat (purely for my boney bum lol) and something else I can't remember to do with my upper thigh length. There were other things that could have been done too. It was all included in the off the peg price too.

I am just riding this pony for a few years to bring on for my daughter but I wanted a saddle which was comfey for us both.

 

[rhino]

Finally found the size guide I knew existed
According to this, at 5'6" and weighing 9stones I need an 18" saddle.
From the Thoroughgood site:-
It's easy to find the saddle size that suits you. Sit somewhere so your thigh is at a right angle to your lower leg and measure from the back of your buttock to the point of your knee.Upper leg lengthRecommended seat sizeUp to 16½" (41cms)15"Up to 18½" (46cms)
16"Up to 20" (50cms)16½
"Up to 21½" (54cms)17"Up to 23" (58cms)17½"
Up to 23" (59cms)or longer18"
While this offers you a guide, the seat size required may vary according to your build.

I find that quite bizarre, according to that I need a 17 1/2" saddle at least! Anything bigger than a 17" and I feel like I am wallowing about I'm only 5'3" and a runty little thing! Just one with a long hip-to-knee measurement, which every saddle fitter I've ever used has commented on

I find having single-phase saddles makes such a difference though, I ride in a 16.5" dressage saddle and 16" and 17" close contact jumping saddles and they fit fine, but some of the GP saddles I've tried have been hopeless. Spooky - have you tried any proper endurance saddles; they must be made slightly differently as most endurance riders seem normal sized, and the horses compact little arabs with fewer vertebra than others

 

[tallyho!]

The saddler explained it to me really well what they could do but I can't remember the terminology well enough to explain it.

I am getting a standard 17.5 inch saddle the same style as this one (which is a standard off the peg 17.5 inch loan saddle):


My saddle has an extra 1.5 inch knee roll, double memory foam seat (purely for my boney bum lol) and something else I can't remember to do with my upper thigh length. There were other things that could have been done too. It was all included in the off the peg price too.

I am just riding this pony for a few years to bring on for my daughter but I wanted a saddle which was comfey for us both.

This saddle is too long for this pony. It may be that it does not go past his last rib at the cantle but look how far forward it is on the shoulder. That pony has quite a nice sloping shoulder and the saddle does not clear the top of the scapula. The pommel is directly above the rotational angle of the top of that leg.

Look at this page: http://www.thebacklady.co.uk/ I'm not promoting DM or her products but the spotty is mine and he was used for a demo by a well known saddler. You can see the saddle well clears the top of his scapula and he has a fairly upright shoulder. That is a 17" saddle with a 5'6 rider. The other jump saddle is the same seat length but longer in the flap so my seatbones still sit in the saddle, not my leg. My leg remains either side of the horse. The top photo, the chestnut shows this well. The pommel is well behind the shoulder blade but the flap extends slightly over to accommodate the tall rider.

Spookypony, there is definitely a limit to what can be adjusted to keep rider and horse happy. The less panel area vs seat area = more weight distributed on a smaller area. The whole idea of a saddle is to spread the riders weight either side of the spine, on the longissimus dorsi and a bit of the trapezius. If too much weight is concentrated on a particular area, it causes muscle wastage. If the seat needs to be longer than the panels you have to adjust pommel and cantle or else too much pressure will be placed either forward or back. Thats why it is better to get a longer flap (forward or down) and knee roll. This may mean your legs dangle past the horses belly. If you don't like that, then get a taller/rounder horse

 

[spookypony]

Spookypony, there is definitely a limit to what can be adjusted to keep rider and horse happy. The less panel area vs seat area = more weight distributed on a smaller area. The whole idea of a saddle is to spread the riders weight either side of the spine, on the longissimus dorsi and a bit of the trapezius. If too much weight is concentrated on a particular area, it causes muscle wastage. If the seat needs to be longer than the panels you have to adjust pommel and cantle or else too much pressure will be placed either forward or back. Thats why it is better to get a longer flap (forward or down) and knee roll. This may mean your legs dangle past the horses belly. If you don't like that, then get a taller/rounder horse

No fear of dangling here! He's far too wide for that; hard to find a rounder horse than him! Generous souls say his ribcage is just well-sprung. Others suggest that he eats Shetlands.

Funds haven't allowed so far, but am thinking that an endurance saddle may well be the way to go. I like riding with a slightly shorter stirrup for endurance than on the flat, so that I can get out of the saddle easily for long canters, but it appears that getting something straighter-cut with longer flaps is probably going to be the way to accommodate both him and me. Certainly, his dressage saddle fits him better than the GP, and they're supposedly the same size, on the same (I think) tree!

Got some saving up to do over winter...

 

[cowboylover]

14 pages about something we know very little about. The actual saddle that is.

I agree this pictures are dreadful but HH wrote an article about a theory prototype that doesn't exist yet.

So no need to worry people there is no 22"!

 

[rhino]

14 pages about something we know very little about. The actual saddle that is.

I agree this pictures are dreadful but HH wrote an article about a theory prototype that doesn't exist yet.

So no need to worry people there is no 22"!

I disagree. Obesity is very much the unspoken epidemic in this country; perhaps if it was more openly discussed/discussable then it wouldn't be as bad as it is now.

Turning a blind eye to it will never help. The fact is that people are getting bigger and heavier and at some point that will impact on the tack that is 'needed'.

ETA set your account to 40 posts per page and it's only 4 pages of 'something we know very little about'

 

[cowboylover]

No I think you missed my point, maybe I was not clear.

I totally agree with you that it's an epidemic and turning a blind eye as you put it is never the way forward and will not help anyone.

The OP was about a saddle that does not exist so I hope it nothing to worry about and never gets made.

 

[smokey]

I find that quite bizarre, according to that I need a 17 1/2" saddle at least! Anything bigger than a 17" and I feel like I am wallowing about I'm only 5'3" and a runty little thing! Just one with a long hip-to-knee measurement, which every saddle fitter I've ever used has commented on

I find having single-phase saddles makes such a difference though, I ride in a 16.5" dressage saddle and 16" and 17" close contact jumping saddles and they fit fine, but some of the GP saddles I've tried have been hopeless. Spooky - have you tried any proper endurance saddles; they must be made slightly differently as most endurance riders seem normal sized, and the horses compact little arabs with fewer vertebra than others

Rhino, we have shared the naughty bench, we both know you are not nearly as petite as you claim to be!

 

[cowboylover]

PS Thanks for the set up change advise!

 

[YasandCrystal]

No I think you missed my point, maybe I was not clear.

I totally agree with you that it's an epidemic and turning a blind eye as you put it is never the way forward and will not help anyone.

The OP was about a saddle that does not exist so I hope it nothing to worry about and never gets made.

Yes but getting to the 14th page and seeing that American website has been en-lightening and shows just where that Fuller Fillies are coming from!

 

[rhino]

Rhino, we have shared the naughty bench, we both know you are not nearly as petite as you claim to be!

Cheeky moo!

PS Thanks for the set up change advise!

If you go to User CP and then to Edit Options you can change the set up. I agree with you that I'd rather the 22" saddle was never needed, but then I'd rather that high street shops had not needed to create plus sized clothes for 5 year olds, and yet they have

 

[Daytona]

i am a 5 foot 10 female and i had to get a 18" saddle made for me with a extra 2" cup forward flap as my hip to knee bone is really long - so i found out when buying a new black country saddle

But yes before this my knees alwaus poked off end of saddle - quite annoying.

This saddle was made for 16hh WB mare and they insisted she could take a 18" saddle due to where he ribs were or something along that lines

so maybe a really tall person on a 17 odd HH horse, could get away with a larger seat..??

No so keen on the idea if its just due to being obese thats easily solved - eat less
bu tif you tall you cant do alot about that.

 

[FfionWinnie]

Tallyho as I said its a temporary loan saddle, it has moved forward however the saddle fitter has been back since and with a Prolite pad, stopped it moving. I don't have any other photos hence I used that one. The saddle fitter is very highly regarded and well qualified and I am afraid I will be taking her advice on this matter.

 

[siennamum]

My son is 6ft 2, which in itself isn't a huge problem. It has become problematic because he is riding a 16.2 with a phenominally short back and a loaded shoulder.

The saddle which is currently being made for him has to be a 17" because the horse will not take a longer saddle. The cantle will be a jumping one, the pommel is being raised to ensure he has some support & the flaps are being set further forward with adjustable blocks.

This is an interesting topic really as in additional to other concerns you have to consider with longer saddles where the riders weight is centralised on the horses back. I do believe you have to ensure the weight is as close to the horses centre of gravity as possible. I loathe seeing saddles which sit the rider over the horses kidneys - as many modern event saddles do. They encourage slim people to sit on their thighs, let alone fatties.(like me - I hasten to add)

 

[FfionWinnie]

Yes but getting to the 14th page and seeing that American website has been en-lightening and shows just where that Fuller Fillies are coming from!

Is it tho. I don't think some of the American ladies would fit in a 22" seat either.

 

[YasandCrystal]

Is it tho. I don't think some of the American ladies would fit in a 22" seat either.

No sadly their bottoms would eat a 22"

 

[tallyho!]

Tallyho as I said its a temporary loan saddle, it has moved forward however the saddle fitter has been back since and with a Prolite pad, stopped it moving. I don't have any other photos hence I used that one. The saddle fitter is very highly regarded and well qualified and I am afraid I will be taking her advice on this matter.

Why are you afraid?

 

[Littlelegs]

Unless I'm missing something, I don't see that length of thigh has a huge bearing on saddle size. It's not my thigh bones in the seat, its my bum. So on the flat, the fact I have 36" legs doesn't mean I need a bigger seat than someone the same build, with shorter legs. Granted, different flaps & knee rolls etc maybe required, especially for jumping, but seat size is more dependent on build. Unless of course you are sat in an armchair type position.

 

[flump]

Why are they saying they can't fit into 16" sAddles on the USA forum? I don't believe most adults ride comfortably in 16" saddles let alone ones with bigger bums!?

 

[siennamum]

Unless I'm missing something, I don't see that length of thigh has a huge bearing on saddle size. It's not my thigh bones in the seat, its my bum. So on the flat, the fact I have 36" legs doesn't mean I need a bigger seat than someone the same build, with shorter legs. Granted, different flaps & knee rolls etc maybe required, especially for jumping, but seat size is more dependent on build. Unless of course you are sat in an armchair type position.

as far as I am aware saddle size is all about the length of your thigh, though your bum size must also make a difference.

It relates to where your knee is and the alignment to your seat.

 

['S'teamed]

i think some here are confusing seat length, 18 19 or in the article 22 inches, with the panel length underneath..

i've 2 ponies that cannot take anything longer, panel wise, than 15 inches, but my thigh length is 15 3/4 so i have a 15 inch panel and a 16 inch seat..

perfectly acceptable, and made to measure

 

[tallyho!]

as far as I am aware saddle size is all about the length of your thigh, though your bum size must also make a difference.

It relates to where your knee is and the alignment to your seat.

See this is completely alien to me. I have never ever heard about thigh length being important to seat size. Flap length yes, but not seat.