Well this is a can of worms

[Zeehorse]

I thought I had done that.

Sorry that this forum doesn't have a "like" button. I'd "like" Big Ben's post .

in any case, many thanks Capriole.

 

[Capriole]

You're welcome. What's your horse's breeding?

 

[Zeehorse]

First of all, he isn't mine (though I sorely wish he were). I am part leasing him from a college student who has not enough time to ride him.
He is an Irish draft crossed with Selle Francais. His father is King of Hearts, who was sired by King of Diamonds, I think. He is actually quite an aggressive jumper, very brave across country and sometime more horse than I can feel truly comfy on. But, mostly we ride at a peacable rate throught he woods and do some low level dressage work (emphasis on "low"). He is very surefooted and loves the trails. I am fortuneate to have an equestrian park across the street from the barn where there are nearly 500 acres of land to ride on (wooded and trails).

here is me on the Appy, out riding in the mountains (where we trailered into )

he is 16hh and maybe 1200 lbs. He has no trouble at all carrying my 200 lbs, plus the weight of the saddle up the mountainside.

 

[Zeehorse]

forgive me for going on and on here, but am I the only Yank here? just curious.

 

[kerilli]

Nope, you're not the only Yank... I'm an ex-pat, have lived in England since I was a baby.
Welcome to HHO.
One question, when you see a pic of a very big rider on a totally unsuitable horse, does it not make you want to speak out for the horse's sake? I'm just curious.
Must admit, "fluffy" as a euphemism does make me laugh... Especially as anything fluffy is usually far lighter than it looks, since the fluff disguises the real size of the body underneath! I'd love to know who came up with that label...

 

[PucciNPoni]

Kerilli, I had no idea you were a yank too!

I am, have only been in the UK for about 11 years now....

Zeehorse, I woudn't make apologies for not being able to mount from the ground. Even those who are able just don't because it's better for the horse's back to mount from height.

Now, when it's difficult to climb the mounting block in order to get on the horse, that's when it's nearly laughable! We have a mounting block just outside our gates where I keep the horse. It's a roadside mounting block and it's mid thigh height, and in the middle of a pile of stinging nettle. I do find it a challenge...especially since I've sprained my left ankle and injured my right knee. How does one get on such a high block without use of hands (one on the reins steering the horse, the other avoiding the nettles) and trying to move knee and hip joints in to weird contorsions in order to get up that high, all the while tyring to tell the horse to stand a certain way....fortunately mine is incredibly well behaved - and for some reason while he spooks at the blocks in the school, he never does at the one next to the speeding cars....

 

[Zeehorse]

That was the comedian, mentioned early, Gabriel Iglesia? he IS really fluffy.

I am honestly about the biggest rider I know of. Wait, I take it back. There was another gal I knew back some years who was quite large. I knew that she rode but never saw her ride. I do rememer thinking "I wonder what kind of horse she is riding". But, other than that, I am the biggest I see around here. There are others near about my size, though, so I dont' feel TOO wierd. I am aware of my size. my good friend offers me to ride her little tiny qh and I have sat in the saddle a few times to demonstrate some things to her, but I would never ride him fast than a trot, and then VERY briefly. I know it is unccomfortable for him. But, most other folks do not hesitate to offer me to ride their horses, all horses of a typical size. If they are on the small side, I will politely decline. I know what's best.

If I did see someone too large, I might say something if I truly thought the horse would suffer damage. It's one thing if the horse is a little uncomfortable for the hour or so the rider putzes along. But, if the horse is in danger of damaging a tendon, or being forced to jump high while carrying too much and unconditioned for such loading, them I might.

The thing is, most fat people know they are fat. Funny how that works. And most of them will not make a change by being shamed (as someone at the beginning of this thread was talking about). Shame only makes a person try to escape pain, by eating more!
Hope is what makes people want to change.

From what I have hear, in Britain there is a popular idea of what a horse can carry that is maybe a bit narrow. Those big hunters you have can carry me easily, but I would be over the weight limit at many places, so I am told. And , ask yourself, is it just a matter of pounds? I mean, there are lots of "normal" sized men who weigh about what I do. Would anyone look askance at them riding a typical sized horse? Would they, too, be denied a horse at a rental yard or riding school?

 

[Zeehorse]

Kerilli, I had no idea you were a yank too!

I am, have only been in the UK for about 11 years now....

Zeehorse, I woudn't make apologies for not being able to mount from the ground. Even those who are able just don't because it's better for the horse's back to mount from height.

Now, when it's difficult to climb the mounting block in order to get on the horse, that's when it's nearly laughable! We have a mounting block just outside our gates where I keep the horse. It's a roadside mounting block and it's mid thigh height, and in the middle of a pile of stinging nettle. I do find it a challenge...especially since I've sprained my left ankle and injured my right knee. How does one get on such a high block without use of hands (one on the reins steering the horse, the other avoiding the nettles) and trying to move knee and hip joints in to weird contorsions in order to get up that high, all the while tyring to tell the horse to stand a certain way....fortunately mine is incredibly well behaved - and for some reason while he spooks at the blocks in the school, he never does at the one next to the speeding cars....

I , do, agree with you. Some scenes of me trying to mount at whatever placeI could find on the trail (like , say, if I dropped a glove and had to get off and fetch it) would be really laughable. I am the first to laugh at myself there.

we have stinging nettles , too! man, get out there with some cutters, or spray the Round Up on it (chemicals). we have those darn things everywhere!

 

[Zeehorse]

Kerilli, I had no idea you were a yank too!

I am, have only been in the UK for about 11 years now....

.

So , what brought you to the UK 11 years ago?

I have only been there once about 24 years ago. Spent two weeks in London with a few days detour to Edinburg and thereabouts. I am an Anglophile, just like my mother. I would totally LOVE to spend a month travelling around. If I could afford it!

 

[PucciNPoni]

Now why don't they make riding gloves wtih strings attached like they do mittens for little kids? I think there's a market there somewhere.

I moved to the UK for love (sap, I know). I married a Scottish bloke.

 

[Big Ben]

ROFLMAO, I will now make my fortune by designing hat strings, a series of clips were you can secure gloves, whip, hanky, etc from your helmet, in true Aussie cork style

Zeehorse you make a good point about men v women, for the longest time I had a stolen quote as my siggy line on COTH,

"well that was 200 pound of man fat, it weighs different to 200 pounds of woman fat" or something similar.

Once again, making no justification of my own size, but

I am 5' 8" (and sulking, I was always just over 5'9" but no matter how I tried couldn't get over 5'8 " when the measured me before my OP in August) now say I weighed 200 pounds, I actually don't look that horrific at 200 pounds, kind of like this

Now if my friend who is closer to 5', and coming at it from the shorter direction, weighed 200 pounds she would look like this

Now how often do we make judgments on suitability based on shape rather than weight? Body shots taken from this site

http://www.mybodygallery.com/index.html

 

[Big Ben]

One more before I crawl off to bed...

our 5' person at 250 pounds

our 5' 8" person at 250 pounds

and a 6'4" man at 250 pounds

who I still thinks looks fine if a little tall for the little haffy, but either of the ladies would look better height wise, but not so good weight wise.

 

[Vickijay]

Now how often do we make judgments on suitability based on shape rather than weight? Body shots taken from this site

http://www.mybodygallery.com/index.html

Thanks for sharing this website.

I have been big for a few years but when my horse was injured and off work for 3 months I just sat around and ate WAY too much (coupled with with drowning my sorrows WAAAAAY too much too) and I put on another 2.5 stone which took me to really, really big.

I also have a homebred who never really grew. She's around 15.2 (at a push!) and she was the biggest reason to do something about it as she was almost 4 and time to ride her. I didn't want anyone else to start her so I had to do something about it.

So in April I decided enough was enough and now I am over 5 stone lighter. Still going to try to do another stone or stone and a half (which is boring but ill keep going)

One of my biggest problems is that I still feel the same as I did when I was huge so that website is really interesting to see as I can look at my old weight and my new one (and my target weight!) so thank you for sharing

 

[PucciNPoni]

Big Ben, the point I think you're making is really valid - in that there is a conception that it's okay for a large bloke at that weight to ride a smallish horse but not a woman of the same weight.

Now, the obvious reason is that a man at 250 and nearly 6' will very often be of muscle and that muscle can be made to ride lighter as the muscle can be directed in a positive way. 250# of fat however, does not take direction in the same way as muscle mass. Of course a woman weighing 250 isn't just fat - there will be muscle and water retention and of course internal organs and skeltal structure...


....which gets me to thinking that we ought not judge a rider solely on their weight but take in to consideration the percentage of body fat and skill in "riding light".

 

[Clava]

Big Ben, the point I think you're making is really valid - in that there is a conception that it's okay for a large bloke at that weight to ride a smallish horse but not a woman of the same weight.

Now, the obvious reason is that a man at 250 and nearly 6' will very often be of muscle and that muscle can be made to ride lighter as the muscle can be directed in a positive way. 250# of fat however, does not take direction in the same way as muscle mass. Of course a woman weighing 250 isn't just fat - there will be muscle and water retention and of course internal organs and skeltal structure...


....which gets me to thinking that we ought not judge a rider solely on their weight but take in to consideration the percentage of body fat and skill in "riding light".

True, muscle will help with balance and control of the weight, but "riding light" only makes a bad situation slightly better, the same physical amount of weight is still bearing down onto a small area of the horses back.

 

[eahotson]

That was the comedian, mentioned early, Gabriel Iglesia? he IS really fluffy.

I am honestly about the biggest rider I know of. Wait, I take it back. There was another gal I knew back some years who was quite large. I knew that she rode but never saw her ride. I do rememer thinking "I wonder what kind of horse she is riding". But, other than that, I am the biggest I see around here. There are others near about my size, though, so I dont' feel TOO wierd. I am aware of my size. my good friend offers me to ride her little tiny qh and I have sat in the saddle a few times to demonstrate some things to her, but I would never ride him fast than a trot, and then VERY briefly. I know it is unccomfortable for him. But, most other folks do not hesitate to offer me to ride their horses, all horses of a typical size. If they are on the small side, I will politely decline. I know what's best.

If I did see someone too large, I might say something if I truly thought the horse would suffer damage. It's one thing if the horse is a little uncomfortable for the hour or so the rider putzes along. But, if the horse is in danger of damaging a tendon, or being forced to jump high while carrying too much and unconditioned for such loading, them I might.

The thing is, most fat people know they are fat. Funny how that works. And most of them will not make a change by being shamed (as someone at the beginning of this thread was talking about). Shame only makes a person try to escape pain, by eating more!
Hope is what makes people want to change.

From what I have hear, in Britain there is a popular idea of what a horse can carry that is maybe a bit narrow. Those big hunters you have can carry me easily, but I would be over the weight limit at many places, so I am told. And , ask yourself, is it just a matter of pounds? I mean, there are lots of "normal" sized men who weigh about what I do. Would anyone look askance at them riding a typical sized horse? Would they, too, be denied a horse at a rental yard or riding school?

Sorry my quoting skills are poor BUT that bit bit about shame making people want to escape the pain by eating more.HOPE is what makes people at least try to change.Loved it.Emotionally intelligent.Loved your pics too.

 

[eahotson]

Big boned is absolute rubbish, IMO, it's such a poor founded excuse. There was a programme on a few months ago that hugely dispelled the "fat gene" argument also, with 9/10 "fat families" they surveyed not carrying it.

Most of us have had issues with wieght, whether it being too skinny or too big. The truth is that many people choose diets that the human body was never designed to work on. Too many processed, high salt/carb crap. Reassess your diet, reassess your life.

I still maintain that it is cruel to ride horses when you are that size.

See I don't agree with that.People ARE built differently and I think there is a fat gene (or something,maybe metabolism,don't know).I say this because my sister had a friend years ago who was morbidly obese during childhood and teenage years.She eventually dieted and married, as it happens, a very slim man.Two girls later.G watched their diet like a hawk because she did not want her girls to go through what she went through.Neither were fat but they were different builds and you could see one was heavier built than the other one and would easily become fat if not on a very strict diet.G used to say she could have let the lighter one eat a lot more really but couldn't because they were young children and she didn't feel it fair to differentiate.

 

[eahotson]

Bad backs in horses.MM Some of the worst I have seen have been in riding schools where poor fitting tack seems to be the norm.You would think that these horses, that the amount of work they do,often with novice riders of all sizes would be the ones in most need of well fitting saddles, sometimes 2 for different sized riders wouldn't you? NOPE.I bought one horse, a big 16 hh cobby type.Always stumbling.Vet on vetting said lazy.I also got his saddle in with the deal.It tunrned out to be a childs with a broken tree.Nice eh? Properly fitting saddle and physio and he started moving his back and 95% of stumbling ceased!

 

[kerilli]

True, muscle will help with balance and control of the weight, but "riding light" only makes a bad situation slightly better, the same physical amount of weight is still bearing down onto a small area of the horses back.

This!!!
Sorry, but this 'riding light' thing is a bit of a myth, drives me crazy when used as an excuse, and I was really disappointed to see the H&H vet perpetuate it.
If I fill a backpack with, say 30 lbs of well-packed, stable weight, that's fine to carry. If I fill it with a saggy water container weighing the same it will be harder to balance myself as I carry it, because it will shift around unhelpfully, but the weight is the same. The latter will be more tiring to carry though because I'll have to keep compensating for the shifts.
I think the tall guy like the one in the pic is like the former load. His weight is mostly muscle and is spread all around his body, his legs will be heavy but very stable. His core will be pretty stable too. Easier to carry, yes... BUT still weighs x, bearing down on a relatively small area of the horse's back, which as we know is a 'suspension bridge' held up by ligaments, tendons, muscles. (Hence many old horses get sway backs even if never ridden by anyone heavy - the constant heavy weight of their gut gradually weakens everything and pulls their back down. The one horse I know of who was backed and ridden FAR too young by a clueless idiot was a short-backed coloured cob, he had the worst sway back I've ever seen in a young horse, poor lad. Irrevocably physically damaged at 2 yrs old.)
Most riding schools over here have a strict weight limit which they adhere to. Sometimes it is surprisingly low.
Vickyjay, good for you. That is a real accomplishment.

Zeehorse, you have stinging nettles over there? I was told there were none in the U.S., that you have poison ivy and poison oak instead. Roughly whereabouts are you please, so I can tell my mother she got something wrong!

 

[Emilieu]

I can't quote because I am on my phone but just wanted to answer the question about the riding schools looking askance at men. I have a friend who husband is 16 stone of pure muscle, he is about 6'2" and recently wanted to try riding lessons. They looked the length and breath of Scotland and couldn't find a riding school to take him. So yes - riding schools judge men in the same way.

 

[Wagtail]

This!!!
Sorry, but this 'riding light' thing is a bit of a myth, drives me crazy when used as an excuse, and I was really disappointed to see the H&H vet perpetuate it.
If I fill a backpack with, say 30 lbs of well-packed, stable weight, that's fine to carry. If I fill it with a saggy water container weighing the same it will be harder to balance myself as I carry it, because it will shift around unhelpfully, but the weight is the same. The latter will be more tiring to carry though because I'll have to keep compensating for the shifts.
I think the tall guy like the one in the pic is like the former load. His weight is mostly muscle and is spread all around his body, his legs will be heavy but very stable. His core will be pretty stable too.

Excellent description, Kerilli.

 

[Wagtail]

Zeehorse, you look absolutely fine on that horse. He is lovely.

 

[sidesaddlegirl]

"well that was 200 pound of man fat, it weighs different to 200 pounds of woman fat" or something similar.

Once again, making no justification of my own size, but

I am 5' 8" (and sulking, I was always just over 5'9" but no matter how I tried couldn't get over 5'8 " when the measured me before my OP in August) now say I weighed 200 pounds, I actually don't look that horrific at 200 pounds, kind of like this

Now if my friend who is closer to 5', and coming at it from the shorter direction, weighed 200 pounds she would look like this

Now how often do we make judgments on suitability based on shape rather than weight? Body shots taken from this site

http://www.mybodygallery.com/index.html

Big Ben, that is SO TRUE! I'm 5'9" and not far off from 200lbs and I look similar to that lady in the pink top you posted (LOl, I'm boob 'n hip). I clock up about 8 miles a day on my bike, jog 3k nearly everyday and ride my horse everyday (not plod around down the lane but seriously school dressage for an hour) and I do not look massive but I have some friends who ride (happy hackers) that are shorter than me, some by quite a few inches, who are very large looking BUT would be under the weight of most riding schools!!

People are shocked when they find out how much I weigh and my weight doesn't affect my horse as the back lady never needs to do anything to my TB and we win regularly at shows and dressage comps!

 

[sidesaddlegirl]

See I don't agree with that.People ARE built differently and I think there is a fat gene (or something,maybe metabolism,don't know).I say this because my sister had a friend years ago who was morbidly obese during childhood and teenage years.She eventually dieted and married, as it happens, a very slim man.Two girls later.G watched their diet like a hawk because she did not want her girls to go through what she went through.Neither were fat but they were different builds and you could see one was heavier built than the other one and would easily become fat if not on a very strict diet.G used to say she could have let the lighter one eat a lot more really but couldn't because they were young children and she didn't feel it fair to differentiate.

I agree. My sister and I have slim, tall parents. My mum is 5'9" and used to take 26"-28" waist jeans and skirts, my dad is 6'1" or 6'2" (can't remember) and I remember his jeans weren't that far off my mums!! My sis and I were both fed the same, both played outside but I was the "big" sister both in weight and height.

 

[Wagtail]

There was a recent series on UK TV called secret eaters. It proved that in the vast majority of cases, overweight people were consuming far in excess of what they thought they were.

 

[PucciNPoni]

This!!!
Sorry, but this 'riding light' thing is a bit of a myth, drives me crazy when used as an excuse, and I was really disappointed to see the H&H vet perpetuate it.
)

I don't think that you can magically reduce your weight on the horse's back - but we all can appreciate how dead weight is harder to lift than firm weight (for a lack of a better phrase). A heavy rider who has the ability to not flomp down ona horse's back like a sack of tatties versus one that hasn't got the muscle control to keep it all going the right direction is what I mean by riding "light".

 

[Equilibrium Ireland]

I also would like to commend Big Ben. She is trying. Having watched family members trying to do the same it is a very hard struggle. I also agree with posters that say it could be intolerances to some foods. I think diet products are counter productive. I'm lighter now than when I was in school. When I went to work at the track and was learning how to gallop, I wanted to lose some weight. I went on the slim fast shake thing. This was the late 80's. I lasted 3 days. On the night of the 3rd day I woke up about 12 and raided my roommates food stashes. I had only healthy things. Double fisted I was shoving twinkles in my mouth. I was possessed. Once I binges I thought holy crap that was scary. Never again.

As far as the skinny comments and people being equally unfair, I went into a local shop to buy a pair of jeans. We struggled to find a pair small enough. Trust me I'm not model skinny. I'm short. Short waisted and bulky shoulders. I don't like my look. Anyway the woman couldn't be more nasty about me needing a small size gene. I tried to lighten her up explaining I had a physical job and that I was just small. She got worse so I walked out.

When I was little my parents divorced. My dads side of the family were quite vocal that my mother wasn't feeding us enough because we were too skinny. Funny no one was too concerned she was an alcoholic who moved in a pedo. More concerned we were the skinny cousins. So emotionally I would have had plenty of excuses. Trust me. But one thing I will say. I do not make fun of fat people. I can't imagine how difficult the struggle can be. I've watched my family. I do believe it can be emotional and it's an addiction as alcohol, drugs, smoking, ect. We ALL have a vice of some sort including skinny people. Vice in the form of over exercising, throwing up after meals, being anorexic. Control or not control of something. I think with anorexia at least people know the mind needs to be treated in addition to the physical. Not so much with overweight people and I think that's a serious failing. Can you imagine just treating anorexia with a pill? It's kind of what we do with overweight people to an extent.

But this is about riding and horses. For some it's the only motivation they need. I do feel it's in the best interest of the horse not to be at a certain weight that means you haven't the core or physical strength to be of some help to your horse. But by the same token I've seen some skinny people that are just brutal on a horse. They may have less weight but they use it all wrong and can damage said horse.

Terri

 

[flump]

Everyone should write down exactly what you eat/drink in a day holding back nothing! I did and wa shocke because all though I didn't clock up big meals the snacking in between was awfull and I didn't even think untill it was written down. I used to eat crisps etc while cooking tea or snickers at the garage when hlgetting fuel etc. It's suprising.

 

[ester]

for PP .. I have a pair.. very warm but impossible to tack up in hence the string

 

[alainax]

Wow what a thread!!
I have followed it from the start, and have tried to respond but deleted so many times.

I’ve been riding all my life and only stopped when I felt I was too large for the horses I was riding. My own two passed away a few years ago, so I was riding for some friends. They had asked why I hadn’t been coming to ride the horses very much and I was very embarrassed to explain to them that I felt too large now. They both thought I was being ridiculous and that I was perfectly fine, but it just didn’t feel right to me ( I was around 17stone / 238lbs).

I have been to 21 stone / 294lbs and back again, I know full well its challenges and triumphs that it faces.

7 stone lost (100lbs)

However… as a rider you MUST know your limitations. All through my “fat times” I was never unfit, I climbed a mountain no problem at my heaviest, however… this didn’t mean I would feel ok riding. I know I would have been fit enough too, however I didn’t know of any horse in the world that could have been large enough for me to be happy about being the right size.

Usually I read these threads and get all defensive of the larger riders, ( even at my lightest I'm still closing in on 200lbs/14stone. However I feel completely happy at this weight to be riding. But we all must know where it stops. I am happy riding however even the way I am just now, I constantly think people are looking at me now thinking im too heavy to ride, juding me etc... But now after reading this thread and seeing how much opinion really does vary.. thats changed for me. Ive realsied that sure some people will, however I cant change this, what I can change is my paranoia! and not be so worried when i truly ride horses that can carry me with ease.

As for the 22inch saddle…. Ill admit I don’t know much about this, however… to me it seems more of a publicity stunt.. and as a business woman myself – it worked! They may not ever make one however they have sure got folks talking about it.


Here’s a daft analogy, I'm usually a size 16 , I don’t like shopping n top shop as they tend not to stock many 16’s or much bigger. I like to shop in next as they go all the way up to 22+. It’s a comfortable range to shop in. So maybe… larger riders would feel comfortable shopping in a place that has more sizes than they require… just a thought. (i could be totally wrong, just what goes through my daft mind when i think of shopping :$)

I think in conclusion we have found that being nasty to fat or slim people (or even those in the middle) is just plain not nice. We have found that a 22inch saddle may suit a larger rider, however finding a suitable horse ( inc back length etc) may well be impossible.

We have found that there are many who struggle with their weight, and many who love their horses. We have found our own limits to what we think is right and wrong for riding, and found how much those vary from others who have their own opinions.

We have all sparked a debate, on this and that side of the pond. And maybe just maybe… it will open some eyes to what really is ok to be placing on our horses backs, whether it be big long saddles, light riders who think they are too heavy or heavy riders who think it is ok.

I know it all certainly made me think

Happy riding out there everyone, gl to those on thier weight loss battle - if i can do it anyone can! lol! and to those who dont ride as you think you are too big, get lots a good advice, and read this thread!