Fools Motto
Well-Known Member
Just curious to know. A video I haven't seen before. (It isn't in English, so let the pictures do the talking!)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W25mXibSZG0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W25mXibSZG0
What are peoples views on this
- Thread starter Fools Motto
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Gryfiss
Well-Known Member
How to wreck a quality young horse.
Have we gone back a 100 years ? This video just made me mad the poor horse looked petrified
Have we gone back a 100 years ? This video just made me mad the poor horse looked petrified
3Beasties
Well-Known Member
Well that's one way to do it (or not!!)
poops
Well-Known Member
Not a happy horse!
mjcssjw2
Well-Known Member
thought he could have been more sympathetic, he was a bit forceful with the backwards work thought he could have been more subtle, but he's obviously got stickability and doesn't even need to look where he's being taken!!
LittleBlackMule
Well-Known Member
I did have a 'pukeing' emoticon somewhere but I can't find it, pity because it would have been a perfect response to that video.
Tobiano
Well-Known Member
Horrid. Sorry but give me Monty Roberts any day (ducks)
Fools Motto
Well-Known Member
Well, thank god for that. We all seem to be on the same side then!! I thought if I put the comment about it, some would turn and say something positive.. what, I don't know!
Mind you, he got some stick ability!
comment about it, some would turn and say something positive.. what, I don't know!Mind you, he got some stick ability!
Abbeygale
Well-Known Member
Well I can't say he's a favourite of mine..
nosenseofdirection
Well-Known Member
This is what happens when you try to do three months' work in ten minutes flat. It looks done on the surface, but then some other poor sod has to spend the next two years sorting out the mess you have made. Happens in all lines of work. Bit crap to do it to a living creature.
martlin
Well-Known Member
I know it shocks you all, but it's not unusual and your average lovely imported Dutch WB has been backed that way. The principle is get on and stay on.
Spring Feather
Well-Known Member
It's not that unusual to see youngsters backed like this on the Continent. I've seen it a few times while over there and I have to say it doesn't overly bother me, it's just another way to back a horse. There are likely some merits of doing it this way. We often get on our youngsters on the first day however they don't react like this horse as we've known them all or most of their lives so they are fine with us just getting on and going.
Enfys
Well-Known Member
Well, I read the previous comments before I watched the clip and I have to say that I was expecting something horrendous.
Sorry, but I have seen many a lot worse, but I do live in Hicksville.
That horse won't be ruined because of this, he wasn't thrown, or held down, blindfolded or tied, he wasn't bitted and actually those bucks were half-hearted sort of "What the heck is that?" efforts, not all out broncing.
A petrified horse would either have frozen or turned himself inside out, that was just a somewhat confused, but well handled youngster. There is no indication of what groundwork he has done previously (me not being au fait with the language) so you just don't know what he knows. He has learned that he cannot unseat his rider and will be a better horse for it.
It isn't the accepted BHS way, but it is by no means the worst thing that could have happened to the horse.
Sorry, but I have seen many a lot worse, but I do live in Hicksville.
That horse won't be ruined because of this, he wasn't thrown, or held down, blindfolded or tied, he wasn't bitted and actually those bucks were half-hearted sort of "What the heck is that?" efforts, not all out broncing.
A petrified horse would either have frozen or turned himself inside out, that was just a somewhat confused, but well handled youngster. There is no indication of what groundwork he has done previously (me not being au fait with the language) so you just don't know what he knows. He has learned that he cannot unseat his rider and will be a better horse for it.
It isn't the accepted BHS way, but it is by no means the worst thing that could have happened to the horse.
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Holly Hocks
Well-Known Member
Why do people nowadays want everything doing in 10 minutes flat? Whatever happened to taking it slowly and sympathetically?
martlin
Well-Known Member
It's not new or fashion, it's how horses are backed on the continent. I thought the bloke was a fairly decent pro.
Enfys
Well-Known Member
Me too.
Good man, he stuck there quietly and just let the horse get on with it.
Incidentally, when I worked at a breaking yard (we took long yearlings and started them for trainers) we would have them lunging, long reining and tacked up, but we backed them like this, in a school, legged the jockey up and away they went, many reacted just the same - and that was in the UK.
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nosenseofdirection
Well-Known Member
I don't understand the language, but- if this is the normal way in those parts why did he have an audience? I mean, it didn't come across like a clinic, people were applauding and so on.
Spring Feather
Well-Known Member
Oh no you're right, it's certainly not new. I lived on the Continent over 25 years ago and this was a common way of backing youngsters even back then.
martlin
Well-Known Member
It was a demo, just as any other pro's demo.
ETS - I'm sort of glad I live in UK now, I'm waay to creaky to do that now, but nobody here expects me to, so all's good
Spring Feather
Well-Known Member
It looked like a clinic to me. Even if it wasn't, there are usually people around watching when horses are first backed.
Fools Motto
Well-Known Member
I admit, I admire the rider. Part of me also applauds the 'get on and go' factor too, BUT I can't help but feel that the quickness of it all is such a shock to the horse, that in the long run, I can't see the benefit of this now? It's a bit like taking one driving lesson, and then the next day taking your test!
But with the amount of horses on the continent, and on the market, then it is a bit of a production line producing them quickly to sell to people like us! (not me personally, but UK people who are looking for an import).
But with the amount of horses on the continent, and on the market, then it is a bit of a production line producing them quickly to sell to people like us! (not me personally, but UK people who are looking for an import).
martlin
Well-Known Member
It teaches 2 very basic and important lessons from the word go:
1. you do not unseat rider
2. FORWARDS
1. you do not unseat rider
2. FORWARDS
nosenseofdirection
Well-Known Member
Well, each to their own, I suppose, and it would probably make more sense if I could understand what they're saying. But I do think a lot of people push horses too far, too fast. I dare say there's nothing new in that, though.
be positive
Well-Known Member
If it was in a round pen would it be much different to what Monty Roberts does, a quick start with a decent jockey that stays on while the horse is encouraged forward.
PingPongPony
Well-Known Member
I have to agree with other posters, I have seen a lot worse, and I was expecting a lot worse! However, I understand that the man with the lunge whip was making the horse go forwards, but I think he did make it a lot worse at the beginning, but he didn't hit the horse or anything like that, I just think he reacted too soon in some parts
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
The rider has seriously good balance and a lovely balanced leg position .
I am torn part of me wants to say beware two weeks in draw riens and coming to a dealers heard near you.
But part says they did not stress the horse unduly it was not bitted ( unless my eyesights particularily bad to night) and it got the job done .
But the biggest part of me says why the rush , where's the care in the physical development of the horse in doing it like that whys its necessary verses doing it over several weeks as I was taught.
It's rare that I have ever seen a horse bronc when backing is done gradually why ever show them that it's a possibility ?
But the horse was shown you go forwards the rider stays with you.
I am conflicted in my opinion TBH.
Sweet kind horse though.
I am torn part of me wants to say beware two weeks in draw riens and coming to a dealers heard near you.
But part says they did not stress the horse unduly it was not bitted ( unless my eyesights particularily bad to night) and it got the job done .
But the biggest part of me says why the rush , where's the care in the physical development of the horse in doing it like that whys its necessary verses doing it over several weeks as I was taught.
It's rare that I have ever seen a horse bronc when backing is done gradually why ever show them that it's a possibility ?
But the horse was shown you go forwards the rider stays with you.
I am conflicted in my opinion TBH.
Sweet kind horse though.
milliepops
Wears headscarf aggressively
I also read the comments first and expected something horrific
^^ this. I wouldn't choose it myself but I think there's also a certain degree of skill shown - the rider looked very well balanced and I liked the way he gave the horse freedom under saddle to work it out.
^^ this. I wouldn't choose it myself but I think there's also a certain degree of skill shown - the rider looked very well balanced and I liked the way he gave the horse freedom under saddle to work it out.
Spring Feather
Well-Known Member
I think a lot of people on HHO aren't that aware of what happens in other countries and just because it doesn't run in line with how they do things then it's wrong. I've lived in many countries of the world and I just see it as different. I've picked up lots of different techniques over the years, some I use myself now, others I don't, but I do feel all the more enlightened by living in these other countries and seeing how it's done there. A lot of British horse people do seem to be quite tunnel vision about the way horse things are done elsewhere and also appear to claim experience about all things horse-related, even when they have little experience of doing in their own country let alone experienced what goes on in other countries. Not necessarily a criticism, just something I've noticed happening a lot on this forum. Remember there are other ways of getting to the same end result, and one way is not always the only way.
noodle_
Well-Known Member
Why do people nowadays want everything doing in 10 minutes flat? Whatever happened to taking it slowly and sympathetically?
same tbh - mine is rising 3 and shes been long reined and gentle lunged (2 circles and we call it quits in walk/trot...)...
shes worn a saddle/bridle - been walked in it - didnt bat an eyelid - as it was done uber slow and tons of praise - and utter trust....
i will break her in at 3.5-4 (properly/ridden) but ive already sat on her bareback, no helper on the yard and she just stood there ears forward and happy - to me thats more important than rushing it.
yes its another way to do it on the continent - i fully accept that - dosent mean theres any way in hell id be doing that with my horse!.....
Norfolk Pie
Well-Known Member
This is exactly what I feel. Do I think it's nessacery? No. Do I like seeing any animal subjected to something that causes it fear? No. Do I think that in the long run it will cause lasting damage? Yes, in some i do, I've seen them.
But this is what really causes the problems:
"beware two weeks in draw riens and coming to a dealers yard near you"
Is it "crueler" than the uk backers who tie them down in the stable in a pair of side reins to learn about a "contact"? I don't think so.
Until people stop buying horses that have been produced in a hurry, pro's are going to keep turning them out - be it backing or competing ........
Eta the cynic in me says give the man a cowboy hat and he'll have a fan club in two minutes flat......