What to do when there is not turnout HELP!!

[Sossigpoker]

Can we stop trying to shame and guilt trip owners who are trying their best , even if it's not 'perfect ' in your OPINION?
Yes having no ability to leave the stable except for sporadic exercise is not great, but neither is standing in mud 24/7.
This is turning into another barefoot vs shod debate and it just turns into people trying to shame each other.

If you want your horse to live a 'natural' life , you should have hundreds of acres of land, mixed herds with stallions and certainly no geldings , and you cam forget about riding.

Sorry for the rant but frankly, getting sick of the "one -upmanship".

 

[SatansLittleHelper]

There is simply no comparison between that and what happens with a group of horses in a stable yard.
.

How is it different..?? Let's say, for arguments sake, that my Dane can see other dogs through the door. I agree, in principle, that predators and prey are different but actually that makes it worse for me personally...an animal who's natural instinct is to flee is then stuck in a situation where is cannot exhibit a very natural behaviour.
I realise that there isn't a "perfect" situation, no-one wants to feel that they are doing the wrong thing by their horse. All horses are different etc.
But this situation is becoming "normal" and I personally feel this is a big welfare issue.

 

[SatansLittleHelper]

Can we stop trying to shame and guilt trip owners who are trying their best , even if it's not 'perfect ' in your OPINION?
Yes having no ability to leave the stable except for sporadic exercise is not great, but neither is standing in mud 24/7.
This is turning into another barefoot vs shod debate and it just turns into people trying to shame each other.

If you want your horse to live a 'natural' life , you should have hundreds of acres of land, mixed herds with stallions and certainly no geldings , and you cam forget about riding.

Sorry for the rant but frankly, getting sick of the "one -upmanship".

This isn't about living a natural life though is it...it's about allowing animals to display natural behaviours, different meanings.
It's also not about "guilting" anybody. How others keep their horses is up to them, as I said in a previous post, it's not a one size fits all topic. However, we are required, by law even, to provide basic things to our animals....allowing natural behaviours (withing reason) is one of those things.

 

[windand rain]

Actually horses living in tend to be colder and get far more injuries in my 55 year experience. Horses living out can move to keep warm and avoid draughts, Yes humans compensate for that with rugs but if both were naked the ones outside would be warmer. Unless of course you all have old fashioned stone stables with cobbled floors mats and a deep bed of straw. Horses living in and out can injure themselves when turned out from the stable so appear to have more injuries due to the act of turning out. Horses out 24/7 with grass to eat walk miles but out 24/7 with big bale hay is the work of the devil so yes it is horses for courses but it is not possible for most people to keep out 24/7 365 days of the year and still have a grazing system for feeding. It takes a lot of hard work time and expense to do so. Keeping the grazing going either by hay boxes scattered around the field in greater numbers than horses s time consuming. Indeed the only 24 hour turnout horse that has been injured was yesterday that I know of but it could actually have been caused by colic which is very rare in horses out 24/7 but not impossible.
As to box rest no I would not box rest a horse that was suffering great pain it would be PTS where ever the pain might be. I would only box rest a young horse if I was certain it would a) settle to it and b) would be kept pain free. Even for a few weeks quality of life over quantity is my mantra.
So in conclusion my I deal would be herd or minimum pairs with open access to dry shelter and good grazing or certainly man made grazing (hay boxes etc not big bale) if growing grass was unavailable. Second choice would be 24/7 out with shelter from hedges trees etc, Third would be in for a maximum of 12 hours with access to grazing with shelter. Under no circumstances would I keep a horse confined for more than that time I wouldn't own a horse if it had to live in 24/7.
As to work load in 22 hours a day is easiest and cheapest
in 12 hours is possibly the most expensive in money but only slightly more time consuming
out 24/7 regardless of the arrangement is the most time consuming and the hardest work and probably the most expensive done properly as you need to maintain more land and either spend for small bales so you can move them about to make grazing conditions or spend more time breaking up big bales into grazing amounts.
Incidentally mine do move miles on 24/7 turnout and do leave hay and haylage for grass and are fed daily on grass products. They rarely run about and even moe rarely stand in one spot. I do conceed I am lucky to have sandy soil some areas are well drained others less so but we do not get mud deeper than the thickness of a shoe though all are barefoot due to ground management where we have water lying we use the fields in summer where well drained we use in winter

 

[Gallop_Away]

Oh come on that's just semantics. You have said it's cruel to keep a horse in full time and you are therefore saying that anyone who does it is cruel, you really can't wriggle out of that one, just own it. You're entitled to your opinion.
.

I'm not trying to wriggle out of anything but don't put words in my mouth. I have explained my view at great length and I've acknowledged there are exceptions where it either suits some horses, or the owners have the facilities and time to accommodate for lack of turnout, but I stand by my opinion that in general keeping a horse in a stable for the majority of the day for months on end is cruel. If you are at peace with how your horse is kept why should my opinion matter?

 

[Pearlsasinger]

Can we stop trying to shame and guilt trip owners who are trying their best , even if it's not 'perfect ' in your OPINION?
Yes having no ability to leave the stable except for sporadic exercise is not great, but neither is standing in mud 24/7.
This is turning into another barefoot vs shod debate and it just turns into people trying to shame each other.

If you want your horse to live a 'natural' life , you should have hundreds of acres of land, mixed herds with stallions and certainly no geldings , and you cam forget about riding.

Sorry for the rant but frankly, getting sick of the "one -upmanship".

But nobody has the right to have a horse. Owners should think carefully about whether they are providing what their horse really needs,which isn't a matching set of bandages etc but the 5 Freedoms. Can a horse kept in a stable for 23 hrs out of 24, really express itself and communicate with others of its own kind? Doing your best,isn't always good enough, just as was said on the thread about step-parents who murdered their stepchildren (except that actually neither of them was a step parent, just a girl-friend)

 

[Starzaan]

I’m finding the way this thread has gone really interesting - I like learning about how others keep their horses and I particularly love seeing when people who initially disagree, find common ground, or change their thinking to align with each other.
Forgive me, I am still in hospital and off my morags on drugs, so I may be wanging on a bit but it is so interesting seeing how opinions differ.
Personally, as I said up thread, I would no longer keep horses if I couldn’t turn them out every day, all year, no matter what. And by turnout I don’t mean an hour, they are out all day.
I manage a rehab yard, and have worked with thousands of horses over the years, in all sorts of routines. I do feel that there are horses who are happier in, though they are few and far between, just as there are the odd few horses who genuinely prefer to be turned out alone, but I do believe this is rare. I have seen horses who are happy in all winter, but as I mentioned previously, they would be ridden twice a day, and hand grazed extensively throughout the day. This simply isn’t attainable for the vast majority of horse owners on DIY working full time. Working with rehab horses means I deal with an awful lot of box rest. This is incredibly hard work and is a full time job! All horses have windows out the back of their boxes that open fully, and a door looking into the barn. There is a lot to see and a lot going on, but they still need a LOT of work to keep them happy and settled. Stringing up gorse branches, hiding carrots and herbs throughout hay bars, grooming at least twice a day, very gentle ‘trick’ training - kiss, back, over to the left over to the right etc. - to keep the brain working. This simply isn’t attainable with a full time job, seeing the horse twice a day.
My two horses are very different, and I find it very interesting how varied horses are. One is a 14yr old ISH I have had since he was 5, and he is incapable of living out in winter. He is in at night all winter, from 6pm to 5am, skipped out at 10pm. When living out 24/7 he turns into a frail wreck of a creature - mud fever, abscesses, infections in the sheath, rain scald, you name it, he gets it. If he were to stay in full time though, he would simply be unhandleable. It took me a few years to work out his ideal routine, and now I’ve cracked it, I won’t change it!
My other colics if he’s left in. He was neglected - abandoned in a locked stable for nine months - and now cannot cope without turnout. He is on the same routine as my other as he needs time in to dry over night, and to be stuffed with haylage as he’s a bit of a skinny minnie if not kept on top of. He’s 22yrs and benefits from the time in his box, but it did take me months to get him to the stage where he was happy to come in. I will never push it with him, if he ever had to be box rested, he would go to heaven. It would kill him to keep him in.
I guess everyone believes they are doing their best, and it’s hard to see something that you believe is cruel or wrong, and to know that person also believes they are doing the right thing. The whole equine industry is hard and a bit baffling really isn’t it?!
personally I believe in the five freedoms being imperative to equine welfare, and would not have horses if I couldn’t turn out all day, every day, with company. There will always be exceptions, but they do not negate the needs and wants of the majority, and in my experience the vast majority of horses are happier, healthier, and more settled when they get adequate turn out, in a single sex herd (I’ve found a lot of mixed herds to be quite unsettled), plenty of forage, and big deep beds when they do have to come in.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I’m finding the way this thread has gone really interesting - I like learning about how others keep their horses and I particularly love seeing when people who initially disagree, find common ground, or change their thinking to align with each other.
Forgive me, I am still in hospital and off my morags on drugs, so I may be wanging on a bit but it is so interesting seeing how opinions differ.
Personally, as I said up thread, I would no longer keep horses if I couldn’t turn them out every day, all year, no matter what. And by turnout I don’t mean an hour, they are out all day.
I manage a rehab yard, and have worked with thousands of horses over the years, in all sorts of routines. I do feel that there are horses who are happier in, though they are few and far between, just as there are the odd few horses who genuinely prefer to be turned out alone, but I do believe this is rare. I have seen horses who are happy in all winter, but as I mentioned previously, they would be ridden twice a day, and hand grazed extensively throughout the day. This simply isn’t attainable for the vast majority of horse owners on DIY working full time. Working with rehab horses means I deal with an awful lot of box rest. This is incredibly hard work and is a full time job! All horses have windows out the back of their boxes that open fully, and a door looking into the barn. There is a lot to see and a lot going on, but they still need a LOT of work to keep them happy and settled. Stringing up gorse branches, hiding carrots and herbs throughout hay bars, grooming at least twice a day, very gentle ‘trick’ training - kiss, back, over to the left over to the right etc. - to keep the brain working. This simply isn’t attainable with a full time job, seeing the horse twice a day.
My two horses are very different, and I find it very interesting how varied horses are. One is a 14yr old ISH I have had since he was 5, and he is incapable of living out in winter. He is in at night all winter, from 6pm to 5am, skipped out at 10pm. When living out 24/7 he turns into a frail wreck of a creature - mud fever, abscesses, infections in the sheath, rain scald, you name it, he gets it. If he were to stay in full time though, he would simply be unhandleable. It took me a few years to work out his ideal routine, and now I’ve cracked it, I won’t change it!
My other colics if he’s left in. He was neglected - abandoned in a locked stable for nine months - and now cannot cope without turnout. He is on the same routine as my other as he needs time in to dry over night, and to be stuffed with haylage as he’s a bit of a skinny minnie if not kept on top of. He’s 22yrs and benefits from the time in his box, but it did take me months to get him to the stage where he was happy to come in. I will never push it with him, if he ever had to be box rested, he would go to heaven. It would kill him to keep him in.
I guess everyone believes they are doing their best, and it’s hard to see something that you believe is cruel or wrong, and to know that person also believes they are doing the right thing. The whole equine industry is hard and a bit baffling really isn’t it?!

TBH, when an owner is told multiple times - and obviously knows it really, or they wouldn't have asked the question in the thread title, that a yard that can't provide any winter turnout is unsuitable for keeping a horse on, says that it is impossible to move to another yard, as advised, it sounds like it's time that the horse was sold to a more caring home.

 

[ycbm]

I am bemused by people who think horses don't understand that predators can't get at them through a solid wall.

I bought a mare 18 months ago who had lived out for her entire 7 years. When she came to me, every time she felt unsafe out in the field, and that was very often, she ran inside. In the end, I had to shut the gate to force her to come to terms with being out, with company, in a strange place. She knew she was safer inside walls and under a roof.

There is security for horses from being inside, and many of them know it and appreciate it.
.

 

[ycbm]

Can we stop trying to shame and guilt trip owners who are trying their best , even if it's not 'perfect ' in your OPINION?
Yes having no ability to leave the stable except for sporadic exercise is not great, but neither is standing in mud 24/7.
This is turning into another barefoot vs shod debate and it just turns into people trying to shame each other.

If you want your horse to live a 'natural' life , you should have hundreds of acres of land, mixed herds with stallions and certainly no geldings , and you cam forget about riding.

Sorry for the rant but frankly, getting sick of the "one -upmanship".

Agree!

 

[Arzada]

People will get very aerated and start referring to 'cages'.

The use of certain words is interesting. The one that has me is 'chucking' a horse. Chucking the horse does not imply care! Stabling ah well that is caring. I might have missed it but I've never read anyone saying that they chuck their horse in a stable but loads of posters talk of chucking a horse in the field.

I've wanted to post this pretty much every time I read about horses being chucked in a field! Just using your post as an opportunity not to offend the chuckers on the chucking threads

 

[Gallop_Away]

This isn't about living a natural life though is it...it's about allowing animals to display natural behaviours, different meanings.
It's also not about "guilting" anybody. How others keep their horses is up to them, as I said in a previous post, it's not a one size fits all topic. However, we are required, by law even, to provide basic things to our animals....allowing natural behaviours (withing reason) is one of those things.

Agreed! The way I see it, we have chosen to domesticate and own these animals. Having a horse is a privilege, not a right, and we owe it to these amazing animals to keep them in a manner that is best suited to their wellbeing.
There some things we may not be able to control but so far as is in our power, we owe it to them to provide the best care and allow them to express natural behaviours.
People can argue all they want but I think it takes a great deal of straw clutching to say that horses would prefer to be shut in a stable for most of their time as opposed to time turned out with herd members.
I also think people confuse these animal's amenable nature with contentment. A horse may accept being shut in but that does not necessarily mean it is content with the situation.

 

[Gingerwitch]

I got trapped in an area that fid not turn outon wet days and this basically meant mine were in one year from oct to April. I was told this was z complete one off and it would never happen again the local river had burst its banks. Next year they had been in again from October j had 4 to move and move l did.

 

[Gallop_Away]

The use of certain words is interesting. The one that has me is 'chucking' a horse. Chucking the horse does not imply care! Stabling ah well that is caring. I might have missed it but I've never read anyone saying that they chuck their horse in a stable but loads of posters talk of chucking a horse in the field.

I've wanted to post this pretty much every time I read about horses being chucked in a field! Just using your post as an opportunity not to offend the chuckers on the chucking threads

My personal record is 3 meters when chucking
a Shetland. Sadly a disappointing 1 meter with the Welshies and couldn't even get our standardbred off the ground ?‍

 

[TheMule]

The use of certain words is interesting. The one that has me is 'chucking' a horse. Chucking the horse does not imply care! Stabling ah well that is caring. I might have missed it but I've never read anyone saying that they chuck their horse in a stable but loads of posters talk of chucking a horse in the field.

I've wanted to post this pretty much every time I read about horses being chucked in a field! Just using your post as an opportunity not to offend the chuckers on the chucking threads

I agree with you.
I also hate the argument that it's stabling full time vs standing miserable in a muddy field. Come on people, get a bit more creative than this. Make an area of the field to feed on to save the mud, be it hard standing or mats. Make a turn out pen. Improve your drainage. Reducing the stocking load on the fields. Any livery yard that cannot offer some form of freedom to the horse every single day of the year should not be in operation IMO.

 

[scats]

I am bemused by people who think horses don't understand that predators can't get at them through a solid wall.

I bought a mare 18 months ago who had lived out for her entire 7 years. When she came to me, every time she felt unsafe out in the field, and that was very often, she ran inside. In the end, I had to shut the gate to force her to come to terms with being out, with company, in a strange place. She knew she was safer inside walls and under a roof.

There is security for horses from being inside, and many of them know it and appreciate it.
.

My understanding of the horses brain is to flee first, think later. I don’t imagine that, if a horse was being pursued by a lion, say, that it would choose to hide in a stable if it came across one. I’m pretty sure it would just keep running.

Do they really have the thought capacity to realise they are safe from predators behind a wall? That’s a genuine question, by the way, I’m not being sarky.
I was of the view that horses see such objects as shelter from uncomfortable weather, rather than a neat place to hide from those who want to make a meal of them.

 

[windand rain]

Again in my long experience most roofed shelters are used in very hot or fly ridden conditions to keep cool or "escape" the flies I dont think many wild horses would run into a shed or cave to escape from the humans or wolves pursuing them. So not sure why a flight animal acting in self preservation would choose a stable over an open field. I would like a big barn for mine gates open to good grazing at all times purely because I would like them to have a choice. When we had artificial shelters they only used them if they had food in there or if it was the best source of shade and cooler

 

[Flowerofthefen]

I have one of the few horses that genuinely prefers to be in . I've had horses for over 30 years. I've never had one act this way. He is an ex NH/ pointer so his winters were spent inside with plenty of exercise keeping fit for racing. I've had him just over 4 years and battled with it. I've seen him that panicked being out that he would have done himself serious damage. Once caught and in the stable he is totally relaxed. I've tried everything possible I can do in our little yard set up. Nothing has worked. I've made myself ill trying to keep him exercised etc on a daily basis. This year, because of the mild weather, he is ok out for a few hours a day. I will know when he has decided he doesn't want to go out anymore. I've made it to January which I'm over the moon with, it's usually October when the clocks change that he demands to come in. Of course I would love him out all day. The yard doesn't restrict turnout. Unfortunately if I don't listen to him he will Hurt himself and will end up on box rest anyway so I won't gain anything by ignoring him. Come spring he is out all day the out 24/7 until weather starts to change again. Its just the way he is.

 

[SatansLittleHelper]

Mine use their field shelters for protection from flys and heat. That's it. I have never seen them in the shelters in bad weather other than to use it as a loo ??
WE don't like rain/wind/sleet/snow/mud but horses with adequate natural shelters, food, water and pals actually don't give a rats arse. We spend too much time thinking for them as though they are human (I'm not saying I'm not also guilty of this, I know I am up to a point). Horses simply don't view weather in the same way as we do ?‍?‍ They don't get "bad" weather, it's just weather to them.

 

[Tiddlypom]

My horses (which do usually live out, btw) love both their field shelters and their stables. The shelters are used a lot all year round.

There are some horses who won't ever settle in a stable, or who won't ever settle when turned out, but they are in the minority. As an owner, it is part of my duty of care to my horses to try and make their stables and their turnout as safe and appealing to them as possible, so that they feel relaxed and happy in both.

Re horses not apparently regarding their stables as a 'safe space'. Well, mine all do ?‍. They love a duvet day.

I was never so glad of this as the night in lockdown #1 when a canada goose brought down the power lines in my top field. It was dark, the horses were out. They were snorty and spooky as we checked the field by torchlight. As soon as we saw the lines down on the ground I started grabbing them all in, one at a time. They were so relieved! Then they stayed in all night, as we were soon invaded by various teams from Scottish Power who worked under lights through the night to repair the damage.

The horses were far safer stabled. Once in, and hayed up, I hardly got a peep out of them despite all the highly unusual noises, lights and commotions which were happening under their noses.

 

[Onlywayisup]

Actually horses living in tend to be colder and get far more injuries in my 55 year experience. Horses living out can move to keep warm and avoid draughts, Yes humans compensate for that with rugs but if both were naked the ones outside would be warmer. Unless of course you all have old fashioned stone stables with cobbled floors mats and a deep bed of straw. Horses living in and out can injure themselves when turned out from the stable so appear to have more injuries due to the act of turning out. Horses out 24/7 with grass to eat walk miles but out 24/7 with big bale hay is the work of the devil so yes it is horses for courses but it is not possible for most people to keep out 24/7 365 days of the year and still have a grazing system for feeding. It takes a lot of hard work time and expense to do so. Keeping the grazing going either by hay boxes scattered around the field in greater numbers than horses s time consuming. Indeed the only 24 hour turnout horse that has been injured was yesterday that I know of but it could actually have been caused by colic which is very rare in horses out 24/7 but not impossible.
As to box rest no I would not box rest a horse that was suffering great pain it would be PTS where ever the pain might be. I would only box rest a young horse if I was certain it would a) settle to it and b) would be kept pain free. Even for a few weeks quality of life over quantity is my mantra.
So in conclusion my I deal would be herd or minimum pairs with open access to dry shelter and good grazing or certainly man made grazing (hay boxes etc not big bale) if growing grass was unavailable. Second choice would be 24/7 out with shelter from hedges trees etc, Third would be in for a maximum of 12 hours with access to grazing with shelter. Under no circumstances would I keep a horse confined for more than that time I wouldn't own a horse if it had to live in 24/7.
As to work load in 22 hours a day is easiest and cheapest
in 12 hours is possibly the most expensive in money but only slightly more time consuming
out 24/7 regardless of the arrangement is the most time consuming and the hardest work and probably the most expensive done properly as you need to maintain more land and either spend for small bales so you can move them about to make grazing conditions or spend more time breaking up big bales into grazing amounts.
Incidentally mine do move miles on 24/7 turnout and do leave hay and haylage for grass and are fed daily on grass products. They rarely run about and even moe rarely stand in one spot. I do conceed I am lucky to have sandy soil some areas are well drained others less so but we do not get mud deeper than the thickness of a shoe though all are barefoot due to ground management where we have water lying we use the fields in summer where well drained we use in winter

 

[Onlywayisup]

I’m finding the way this thread has gone really interesting - I like learning about how others keep their horses and I particularly love seeing when people who initially disagree, find common ground, or change their thinking to align with each other.
Forgive me, I am still in hospital and off my morags on drugs, so I may be wanging on a bit but it is so interesting seeing how opinions differ.
Personally, as I said up thread, I would no longer keep horses if I couldn’t turn them out every day, all year, no matter what. And by turnout I don’t mean an hour, they are out all day.
I manage a rehab yard, and have worked with thousands of horses over the years, in all sorts of routines. I do feel that there are horses who are happier in, though they are few and far between, just as there are the odd few horses who genuinely prefer to be turned out alone, but I do believe this is rare. I have seen horses who are happy in all winter, but as I mentioned previously, they would be ridden twice a day, and hand grazed extensively throughout the day. This simply isn’t attainable for the vast majority of horse owners on DIY working full time. Working with rehab horses means I deal with an awful lot of box rest. This is incredibly hard work and is a full time job! All horses have windows out the back of their boxes that open fully, and a door looking into the barn. There is a lot to see and a lot going on, but they still need a LOT of work to keep them happy and settled. Stringing up gorse branches, hiding carrots and herbs throughout hay bars, grooming at least twice a day, very gentle ‘trick’ training - kiss, back, over to the left over to the right etc. - to keep the brain working. This simply isn’t attainable with a full time job, seeing the horse twice a day.
My two horses are very different, and I find it very interesting how varied horses are. One is a 14yr old ISH I have had since he was 5, and he is incapable of living out in winter. He is in at night all winter, from 6pm to 5am, skipped out at 10pm. When living out 24/7 he turns into a frail wreck of a creature - mud fever, abscesses, infections in the sheath, rain scald, you name it, he gets it. If he were to stay in full time though, he would simply be unhandleable. It took me a few years to work out his ideal routine, and now I’ve cracked it, I won’t change it!
My other colics if he’s left in. He was neglected - abandoned in a locked stable for nine months - and now cannot cope without turnout. He is on the same routine as my other as he needs time in to dry over night, and to be stuffed with haylage as he’s a bit of a skinny minnie if not kept on top of. He’s 22yrs and benefits from the time in his box, but it did take me months to get him to the stage where he was happy to come in. I will never push it with him, if he ever had to be box rested, he would go to heaven. It would kill him to keep him in.
I guess everyone believes they are doing their best, and it’s hard to see something that you believe is cruel or wrong, and to know that person also believes they are doing the right thing. The whole equine industry is hard and a bit baffling really isn’t it?!
personally I believe in the five freedoms being imperative to equine welfare, and would not have horses if I couldn’t turn out all day, every day, with company. There will always be exceptions, but they do not negate the needs and wants of the majority, and in my experience the vast majority of horses are happier, healthier, and more settled when they get adequate turn out, in a single sex herd (I’ve found a lot of mixed herds to be quite unsettled), plenty of forage, and big deep beds when they do have to come in.

You may think your situation is ideal but it depends on the horse. my competition horse goes out for about six hours every day dependant on weather. He would hate your setup as will not stay out when it starts to get dark, everyone has to assess their own animal and do the best for it.

 

[scats]

I totally agree that a horse can view its stable as a safe place. Absolutely yes.
Im just not sure that they would choose to run in to a stable if fleeing from a predator.

On the subject of horses who despise being out, my friend has one. Oddly, he’s fine out in the summer, but once October hits, he starts jumping out the field (or attempting to). Friend persevered for a while until horse ended up wedged under a fence in his desperation to get in, narrowly avoiding serious injury. This was fifteen minutes after being out. They tried field changes, yard changes.. but he persisted. He now stays in from October to March. He will tolerate half an hour in the paddock opposite his stable while he is mucked out. He’s in his 20s now and rather stuck in his ways!

 

[ycbm]

Im just not sure that they would choose to run in to a stable if fleeing from a predator

I'm not suggesting that, although my mare certainly ran into a barn. I'm suggesting that horses which are put inside stables can often feel very relaxed in there because they know predators don't come through walls.
.

 

[ycbm]

WE don't like rain/wind/sleet/snow/mud but horses with adequate natural shelters, food, water and pals actually don't give a rats arse.

It just isn't possible to generalise like this. The horse in my avatar was bought at 4 and he had been out 24/7 until that point in time. Immediately he felt rain, he would leave his companions, canter to the field shelter and stand in it until the rain stopped. There was plenty of other cover from two buildings, he wanted those three walls and the roof.
.

 

[Cortez]

I totally agree that a horse can view its stable as a safe place. Absolutely yes.
Im just not sure that they would choose to run in to a stable if fleeing from a predator.

On the subject of horses who despise being out, my friend has one. Oddly, he’s fine out in the summer, but once October hits, he starts jumping out the field (or attempting to). Friend persevered for a while until horse ended up wedged under a fence in his desperation to get in, narrowly avoiding serious injury. This was fifteen minutes after being out. They tried field changes, yard changes.. but he persisted. He now stays in from October to March. He will tolerate half an hour in the paddock opposite his stable while he is mucked out. He’s in his 20s now and rather stuck in his ways!

I have a horsey friend who also happens to be a fireman (for anyone under thirty, this is what "fire fighters" are). He tells me that he has seen on many occasions horses which have been rescued from burning stables running back into them as that is where they feel safe, or refusing to leave them in the first place. He says he's had to turn firehoses on horses to get them to leave their stables.

I have had several horses that didn't like to be out, and that would jump fences, charge at gates, etc. to get back in.

 

[PeterNatt]

We used to have 24/7 grazing in London so fail to underestand why a Livery yard does not have sufficient grazing for the number of horses that are kept on their yards.

 

[Flowerofthefen]

I totally agree that a horse can view its stable as a safe place. Absolutely yes.
Im just not sure that they would choose to run in to a stable if fleeing from a predator.

On the subject of horses who despise being out, my friend has one. Oddly, he’s fine out in the summer, but once October hits, he starts jumping out the field (or attempting to). Friend persevered for a while until horse ended up wedged under a fence in his desperation to get in, narrowly avoiding serious injury. This was fifteen minutes after being out. They tried field changes, yard changes.. but he persisted. He now stays in from October to March. He will tolerate half an hour in the paddock opposite his stable while he is mucked out. He’s in his 20s now and rather stuck in his ways!

Ooo would your friend like a matching one to keep hers company!!??

 

[Starzaan]

You may think your situation is ideal but it depends on the horse. my competition horse goes out for about six hours every day dependant on weather. He would hate your setup as will not stay out when it starts to get dark, everyone has to assess their own animal and do the best for it.

I think I didn’t explain myself well haha. I was trying to say I’ve found what works best for mine and will stick with it, but I’m aware there are horses who wouldn’t be happy with my routine. My liveries are on the whole out for slightly less time as I do my own horses before and after them. They tend to go out at 7 and come in at 4 - 5 in winter. ?

 

[scats]

I have a horsey friend who also happens to be a fireman (for anyone under thirty, this is what "fire fighters" are). He tells me that he has seen on many occasions horses which have been rescued from burning stables running back into them as that is where they feel safe, or refusing to leave them in the first place. He says he's had to turn firehoses on horses to get them to leave their stables.

I have had several horses that didn't like to be out, and that would jump fences, charge at gates, etc. to get back in.

I can completely understand that. Though I wonder if disorientation and stress plays a large part in that, rather than rational thought (which I actually don’t think horses do much of).
I suppose I was more struggling to grasp the concept that a horse would have the capacity to recognise that it is safe from a predator because it is behind a solid wall. I’ve always felt that their overwhelming need to flee in those instances would negate any form of thinking. But again, I don’t know, just musing.