Where next for the Bog pony?

[Michen]

We had a cracking run last weekend at BCA to finish 5th in the BE90 with a double clear. And just got away with no time faults for a fast XC. But.. he was a bit unruly in the SJ. Quite spooky and although he doesn’t look it in the video strong.

Today was Waverton and we finally got our sub 30 dressage- 28.3 despite a break in the canter! The section was generously marked but he was still much higher in section after dressage than he’d usually be.

SJ again felt unruly and we didn’t get away with it this time for a pole. XC he picked up a couple of time faults for being too fast. He shot out of the start box like a rocket much to the commentators amusement. He spent far more time looking at his surroundings than the fences- again a bit silly and spooky.

So I had entered the 100 at Bengrove next weekend as felt three runs in a row would be good for him but now I’m bottling it a bit. I was shocked at the width of the 100 XC at waverton and a bit scared. But 90 XC isn’t scaring me anymore! I don’t know what to do as well as the bigger SJ may make him think more or we could become unstuck. Do I drop down and try to have a more perfect SJ? The XC isn’t unruly jumping wise just other stuff around him. I know he’s getting faults for being too fast but it doesn’t feel it, and hopefully obvious from the videos that it’s not out of control.

Tbh I was hoping for a nice relaxed controlled SJ today to set us up but maybe I’m looking for perfection and I have to accept he needs “more” to do. Aldo think my lack of warm up isn’t helping. I jump a cross and an upright then go in because I get nervous and find warm ups really difficult. There’s the added complication that we may not get another chance to event this year (although I think it’s likely we will as long as august isn’t too dry). I really want to tick that 100 box but I just came away from today feeling a little hmmm.

Answers on a postcard please HHOers! Annoyingly don’t have SJ video from today but it wasn’t dissimilar to BCA. I think I should drop back to 90 and get a better SJ but unsure if he simply needs bigger fences to get that!

BCA SJ and XC

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[video]

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Waverton today XC

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[The Xmas Furry]

My 5p worth? I'd be nailing the sj a little more at 90.
Yes, he has a terrific pop and looks like he could well complete 100, however, the balance and control is more with him than you sj at present.
Yes, the lack of warm up sj wont have helped (try hip flask visit 1st?)
Can you get a 90+ sj lesson in asap? Might well help, or at least give you an objective feel and an outsider on the ground would be quite beneficial, particularly if they can help mindset for warm up.
As I say tho, just my initial thoughts. Good luck with whichever height you do x

 

[Northern Hare]

Lovely videos, and your lovely horse is one of my all time forum favourites!

Before moving up to 100, would it be possible to get out to some SJ shows and do some extra rounds over courses similar to BE 90 dimensions, and then up to 100 ? It would be such a shame if you moved up to 100 and found it knocked yours and Bog's confidence.

Good luck, you always look a great partnership.

 

[Michen]

My 5p worth? I'd be nailing the sj a little more at 90.
Yes, he has a terrific pop and looks like he could well complete 100, however, the balance and control is more with him than you sj at present.
Yes, the lack of warm up sj wont have helped (try hip flask visit 1st?)
Can you get a 90+ sj lesson in asap? Might well help, or at least give you an objective feel and an outsider on the ground could well be quite beneficial.
As I say tho, just my initial thoughts. Good luck with whichever height you do x

That’s very helpful thanks! We just did a camp jumping 95-1m and it went really well. But he does seem to get a little fruity with it all. He’s insanely fit too.

Am I just sitting too quiet and not doing enough do you think?

 

[Michen]

Lovely videos, and your lovely horse is one of my all time forum favourites!

Before moving up to 100, would it be possible to get out to some SJ shows and do some extra rounds over courses similar to BE 90 dimensions, and then up to 100 ? It would be such a shame if you moved up to 100 and found it knocked yours and Bog's confidence.

Good luck, you always look a great partnership.

I could try and find some unaff SJ but I do wonder what’s the point given eventing SJ is always easier than showjumping SJ? So more likely to be a kinder course?

I worry a twisty tight max SJ100 would be more scary than a BE100 at first go. I’ve always found it easier to jump higher eventing SJ than pure…

Ps thanks very much! Xx

 

[Michen]

I also still have this potential time issue. He’s got a camp then a pairs HT then a weeks hacking holiday in Cornwall, and he’s been busy so don’t think adding mid week SJ into all that is very fair.

Argh!

 

[Ample Prosecco]

Glad its not just me who hates warm ups! I think it's partly the adrenaline has not kicked in yet and also partly indecision- what to do when. So I talk myself out of it. Whereas on the course you jump what's in front of you in the right order regardless.

I have tried to get into the mindset of seeing the warm-up as part of the round and having a really clear, non-negotiable plan of what I am going to do which I mentally rehearse. That has helped me go from a x-pole & small upright only to actually doing a proper warm up.

 

[Michen]

Glad its not just me who hates warm ups! I think it's partly the adrenaline has not kicked in yet and also partly indecision- what to do when. So I talk myself out of it. Whereas on the course you jump what's in front of you in the right order regardless.

I have tried to get into the mindset of seeing the warm-up as part of the round and having a really clear, non-negotiable plan of what I am going to do which I mentally rehearse. That has helped me go from a x-pole & small upright only to actually doing a proper warm up.

What’s the secret tell me what a proper warm up consists of- I’ve never done one ???

 

[Michen]

I should add we have had some lovely 90 rounds. Combined training he was relaxed and obedient. Here too at Ascott although we had a pole he was super rideable. So he’s getting progressively more strong. Hmmm. Have I created a fit monster.

[video]

 

[Patterdale]

What’s the secret tell me what a proper warm up consists of- I’ve never done one ???

For me it is x pole, upright off both reins, then spread round to upright without breaking canter.
Stand and watch one go round, then walk and when the one before goes in, jump the upright once more.

This won’t work for everyone but it’s what I do. I don’t like warm ups either and I hardly ever walk a showjumping course as the fences look bigger from the ground ????

Unless you were actually scared scared looking at the 100, I’d do a 100 if you feel like you can. Your sj will never be perfect.

But you will know in your gut what is right ?

 

[spacefaer]

No one has a "perfect " SJ round. Even a top rider will adjust pace/balance/rhythm etc constantly in order to get a clear. The only thing that's different is that they are not as aware they're doing it, and they also expect to have to do it.

The only people who aim for a perfect clear with invisible aids are the American hunter jumpers and even they don't get it right every time.

Boggle is well able to jump a 100 track, and in fact, I think you'll find him easier to ride - as he'll start to concentrate more and try harder. Smaller tracks are much harder to jump nicely with a bold horse.

Don't feel that having to make adjustments is a weakness - knowing you have to make them and actually doing them - that's what it's all about!

 

[quizzie]

I'd definitely go for the 100.

He looks very confident (possibly beginning to get over-confident?).... as long as that is how he feels to ride, then I suspect the move up will help both of you, as he will need to pay more attention. Staying at 90 may well make it more likely that he will try to ignore you! Half the skill (fun?) of eventing is that you will seldom be perfect in all 3 phases, and have to learn how to adjust and what questions to ask!

 

[humblepie]

Nothing to add re your plans but I was always hopeless in show jumping warm ups

 

[sbloom]

If you can get there Dan Wain Equestrian in Warwicks does occasional clinics on dealing with warm ups, if that might help.

 

[The Xmas Furry]

That’s very helpful thanks! We just did a camp jumping 95-1m and it went really well. But he does seem to get a little fruity with it all. He’s insanely fit too.

Am I just sitting too quiet and not doing enough do you think?

I'd say perhaps a little passive, but one can never see the full picture unless there on the ground.
Hence suggesting a coaching session at a decent height with a good coach.
He is giving plenty of space ?

 

[SEL]

That’s very helpful thanks! We just did a camp jumping 95-1m and it went really well. But he does seem to get a little fruity with it all. He’s insanely fit too.

Am I just sitting too quiet and not doing enough do you think?

Those videos you posted a little while back with an instructor really had you sitting up and balancing him even if it meant coming back to trot - I think that was camp? He makes 90 look easy. Does he have more respect as they get bigger or just bowl on with his typical enthusiasm?

 

[CanteringCarrot]

He always makes XC look so easy. If he's focused to the jumps and over, I wouldn't care soo much about spooky stuff. It's possible that his adrenaline is up and this is why he's like that. My horse is a spooky horse in general but if I get him pumped up for something he can get more spooky and looky.

I do think there are some things to work on re your SJ, but it's mostly stuff between fences, not the actual fences or height, if that makes sense. So I'd see if I could get some lessons in. If not, I think you might be ok around a 100, it might not be ideal, but it'd also be interesting to see how he responds to a 100 course. If it were me I'd want to do more homework first.

My answer isn't super constructive since I only have a quick minute, and didn't want to read and run!

Edit: I swear I know how to spell ?

 

[Auslander]

I think he's a lovely little horse, but watching him in both sj and xc makes me a little uneasy, as he looks very convinced that he knows best!

One of my liveries/pupils popped her mare up to 100 recently as she was getting far too big for her boots at 90, but it didn't pay off. She was still convinced she was Billy Big Bollcks, but didn't get away with it over a beefier course, and ended up walloping one fence, nearly having a rotational, and scaring herself, then having a very uncharacteristic stop at the next.

Aware that I am a bit boring and risk averse, but I'd want to focus on nailing the submission before going bigger. Yes, 100 may back him off, but I'd prefer not to rely on that, and get him listening to you, not the voices in his own head!

 

[Ample Prosecco]

People use to tell me to put Amber at bigger fences to get her to back off and listen more. It never worked - not even a big beefy novice combination with a pro onboard. He said ‘well I won’t try that again’ when she absolutely launched herself at it and ballooned it. On the other hand Lottie is more respectful of bigger fences and easier to ride. Try it in training and see how he responds.

 

[FlyingCircus]

Does he back off over 100 XC fences out schooling?

He has a mega jump, but his way of going terrifies me a little! If he stopped or had a look, it looks like the momentum would have you straight out the front door.

I'd worry a little like Auslander, that his cockiness will catch up with him as the jumps get harder and he won't be able to use his scope to save you both.

 

[TheMule]

IMO to go 100 you need to be confident jumping 105 courses.
It’s the height where you can’t rely on the pony’s good nature and bit of scope- he’ll jump himself into trouble if you stuff his stride up into a bigger oxer or going into a double
I’d want to be jumping BS Discovery classes quite happily before Eventing at that height

 

[Michen]

Have to say I disagree on the XC, he’s never made me feel remotely worried or out of control and he gets never ending comments from the box about how nice it is to see a horse jumping out of stride.so I’m a little concerned by the comments that he looks terrifying as to me he just rides as a forward bold XC horse.

I’ll add that to worry about though he he. I don’t want to change anything about his xc, as from the combos etc he always feels great.

But not disputing for the SJ!

 

[FlyingCircus]

Have to say I disagree on the XC, he’s never made me feel remotely worried or out of control and he gets never ending comments from the box about how nice it is to see a horse jumping out of stride.so I’m a little concerned by the comments that he looks terrifying as to me he just rides as a forward bold XC horse.

I’ll add that to worry about though he he. I don’t want to change anything about his xc, as from the combos etc he always feels great.

But not disputing for the SJ!

I guess the question is, does he back off when you ask him to take a moment to think/look?

If he just ploughs on regardless, that would make me feel pretty uncomfortable as a rider. I like to be able to jump from a forward stride, but I also like to be able to take a pull if I need them to read the question a little better first. We get to walk the course, but they don't. So if there's something I know they can't see, I want to feel confident I can steady them with a half halt and bring them back to me.

I think I see the same thing in the SJ videos on your channel. He thinks he knows his job, and wants to get on with it. He doesn't seem very rideable in terms of when and where you take off.
All easier said than done to fix! I say as owner of a cocky connie who thinks the rider's only job is to steer..!

 

[Upthecreek]

He’s awesome! He is such a game little horse and genuinely loves his job and I don’t see that as him taking charge or being rude, but horses like him that really take you to a jump are not for the faint hearted. I want a horse that thinks for himself and is able to get himself out of trouble. I don’t want a horse to be chipping in before every fence. Your rounds look pretty under control and tidy to me and he is jumping well within his capabilities. I don’t think he’ll care if the jumps are 90 or 100, so do what you feel comfortable with.

 

[Michen]

Yep he does back off XC when I ask- as in he comes back when I need him to. I have no problems getting him through combinations and usually the more for him to “do” the better. He was awesome around twisty technical Tweseldown where I thought we’d struggle.

Oh god I feel a bit depressed to be “that” poster that’s blindly going on in a potentially dangerous fashion that we all talk about! I’ve never had anything but positive feedback about his XC.

He went XC in a snaffle until this year and that’s only because I changed his SJ bit to a Waterford so kept it on the grackle for the XC too rather than swapping.

 

[Ample Prosecco]

Yep he does back off XC when I ask- as in he comes back when I need him to. I have no problems getting him through combinations and usually the more for him to “do” the better. He was awesome around twisty technical Tweseldown where I thought we’d struggle.
.

Lottie is like that too. Chatsworth Arena Eventing was a twisty technical course on undulating ground with far less space then on a normal XC and endless related distances. It was our first 90 too. Lottie was so much better with more to think about. And she felt great - really listening. I think you and Bog look fantastic XC!

 

[FlyingCircus]

Yep he does back off XC when I ask- as in he comes back when I need him to. I have no problems getting him through combinations and usually the more for him to “do” the better. He was awesome around twisty technical Tweseldown where I thought we’d struggle.

Oh god I feel a bit depressed to be “that” poster that’s blindly going on in a potentially dangerous fashion that we all talk about! I’ve never had anything but positive feedback about his XC.

He went XC in a snaffle until this year and that’s only because I changed his SJ bit to a Waterford so kept it on the grackle for the XC too rather than swapping.

I wouldn't feel depressed, if he's coming back when you ask then you just need to ask a little more to meet optimum time/have a smoother SJ round. It's easy if it's just a rider timing thing ?

 

[Michen]

I wouldn't feel depressed, if he's coming back when you ask then you just need to ask a little more to meet optimum time/have a smoother SJ round. It's easy if it's just a rider timing thing ?

Tbh I could wear a watch and purposely make the time/slow him down. But my attitude is, he’s jumping out of his stride and it feels smooth and right, so why would I want to ride by the watch and fiddle unnecessarily?

Well if I was bothered about the placings I guess.

I just like not wearing a watch or thinking about time and just flowing.

A few months ago I was whining about the e SJ too slow time faults I kept racking up ??

 

[CanteringCarrot]

Yep he does back off XC when I ask- as in he comes back when I need him to. I have no problems getting him through combinations and usually the more for him to “do” the better. He was awesome around twisty technical Tweseldown where I thought we’d struggle.

Oh god I feel a bit depressed to be “that” poster that’s blindly going on in a potentially dangerous fashion that we all talk about! I’ve never had anything but positive feedback about his XC.

He went XC in a snaffle until this year and that’s only because I changed his SJ bit to a Waterford so kept it on the grackle for the XC too rather than swapping.

You're definitely not "that poster" and he's never looked uncontrolled or totally rude to me, he just looks fit and game. Some people are a bit frightened of forward and momentum, because yes, if something happens it does happen fast and you will likely be ejected, but that risk is always there. You just do what you can to mitigate it. This is why cross country, in a competitive sense, atleast, is not for everyone and that's fine.

I quite like his style and he looks like a blast!

SJ has always been my least favorite phase. I think it's often over looked because people focus on dressage weaknesses and cross country because it's fun. So it's important not to lose focus there.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

Double post.