Where next for the Bog pony?

[Merry neddy man]

If when at an event try to find the time to watch between 5 and 10 competitors sj warm up to see the difference and make notes to compare with their sj results, yes I know all horses are different but it may give you different thoughts. Try one at 100 just before he gets a break then if it goes pear shape he has time to unwind and switch off and forget before you go back to 90.

 

[ihatework]

He’s a cracking little horse and there is no doubt in my mind you will be flying around 100 relatively soon in the grand scheme of things. But I think at the moment you are just a little giddy and ahead of yourself given your fragile confidence and relative lack of experience.

Just spend some concentrated time on his rhythm/balance/ride ability, jump some discos and aim for 100 towards end of season.

 

[RachelFerd]

Go and jump some discovery classes before moving up to BE100. Don't go until you're content that SJ feels comfortable (doesn't need to be clear, does need to be comfortable).

 

[scats]

I don’t have any hint of worry watching him XC Michen. He reminds me very much of my jumping pony when she went cross country. She just flew and jumped out of her stride easily, she had this natural ability to adjust her tempo without ever looking like she was ‘slowing’ but she was completely switched on and we never had any issues. The bigger the fences, simply the higher she jumped. Her general way of going never changed.
I felt safer on her coming down to XC fences that were 3ft plus than I’ve ever felt on anything in my life.

 

[RachelFerd]

What’s the secret tell me what a proper warm up consists of- I’ve never done one ???

After some shoddy results SJ last year I perfected a routine which really works for me, and my NHOH holds me to account and makes sure I do it

- 2 or 3 quiet pops over a crosspole. I nearly always miss to the first and have a horrible deep shot before I wake up...
- I go to the oxer next - do it once small, then widen it to be wider than the class SJ width but still 10cm smaller in height. Jump this 3 times..
- make oxer normal width, but put it up to 5cm bigger than the class height and jump 2 or 3 times
- then go to the upright - put it at least 5cm bigger than fences in the ring but with a very generous ground line and come to it 2 or 3 times
- if I have time to wait until my round I make sure I do another jump as the horse 2 before me is finishing it's round.

Can't emphasise enough how much better we jump now that I make myself jump bigger fences rather than just jumping something friendly looking and thinking 'that'll do...'!

 

[Michen]

Problem is I think this could be our last event. Or could not. There’s so many spinning plates at the moment (Bog not going anywhere other than with me) but eventing may be limited.

Or I could have another couple of months. I guess in my head next weekend was “potentially” our last one hence the rush to do a 100. Which in itself is probably not sensible but I sort of thought we’d rise to the occasion and I’d get my act together ?‍

 

[Michen]

After some shoddy results SJ last year I perfected a routine which really works for me, and my NHOH holds me to account and makes sure I do it

- 2 or 3 quiet pops over a crosspole. I nearly always miss to the first and have a horrible deep shot before I wake up...
- I go to the oxer next - do it once small, then widen it to be wider than the class SJ width but still 10cm smaller in height. Jump this 3 times..
- make oxer normal width, but put it up to 5cm bigger than the class height and jump 2 or 3 times
- then go to the upright - put it at least 5cm bigger than fences in the ring but with a very generous ground line and come to it 2 or 3 times
- if I have time to wait until my round I make sure I do another jump as the horse 2 before me is finishing it's round.

Can't emphasise enough how much better we jump now that I make myself jump bigger fences rather than just jumping something friendly looking and thinking 'that'll do...'!

That’s super helpful thank you! Makes mincemeat of what I did today aka a cross and an upright.

I need to pull my s*** together. I have a keen onward bound horse, why would I think it’s acceptable to not warm him up properly and get him listening and respectful. I’m sending him straight in cold and expecting him to be perfect.

Actually feel a bit ashamed of myself now I think about it!

 

[RachelFerd]

That’s super helpful thank you! Makes mincemeat of what I did today aka a cross and an upright.

I need to pull my s*** together. I have a keen onward bound horse, why would I think it’s acceptable to not warm him up properly and get him listening and respectful. I’m sending him straight in cold and expecting him to be perfect.

Actually feel a bit ashamed of myself now I think about it!

I had been the same for years and years, but decided this winter was the winter to do the marginal gains stuff and try and get it right!

 

[Patterdale]

Oh god I feel a bit depressed to be “that” poster that’s blindly going on in a potentially dangerous fashion that we all talk about!

Don’t be….you’re not!

 

[Michen]

Don’t be….you’re not!

Haha kinda feels it when a couple are saying his rounds are a bit terrifying!

I’ll try not to think about it too much and remember that as a rider XC he has never terrified me, nor his semi pro rider.

I honestly look at the videos Xc and think he looks forward and up for it but sensible ?‍

 

[Auslander]

Some people are a bit frightened of forward and momentum.

As one of the posters who said he looked a bit too full of himself, I'd just like to point out that I am not remotely afraid of a horse that goes forward, but I like to be able to say "Oi, mate - lets try this one my way" and have the horse say "Oh, alright then" I just felt that there were a couple of moments that, had I been teaching this combination, I would have flagged up for attention.

Michen, I just came back to have another look at the xc videos, ready to apologise if I'd been too harsh. The last thing I want to do is knock you, when you've done a great job on a nice horse. There were a couple of times in each video where he took on a fence that could have done with a check and rebalance beforehand to swap speed for power. What I noticed was him having to snatch his hind legs vertically to get them clear of the fence, rather than them following the front legs over smoothly. That to me says he might have benefited from a check, either from you, or from himself, a few strides out to get a bit of bounce back into the canter before take off. You can get away with it at 90, and quite possibly at 100 on a scopy clever horse (which he is!) Not disputing that he looks like a lot of fun, and he probably feels amazing. Im just thinking aloud re what may need attention before stepping up!

The guy I worked for in Switzerland went like a bat out of hell cross country, but always said that he wouldn't chase optimum times until he knew he could stop the horse in 3 strides at any given moment during the cross country (Swiss Olympic team member, so competing what would be 5* these days). He never actually did it for obvious reasons, but he knew he could. That always made a lot of sense to me.

 

[Michen]

As one of the posters who said he looked a bit too full of himself, I'd just like to point out that I am not remotely afraid of a horse that goes forward in the slightest, but I like to be able to say "Oi, mate - lets try this one my way" and have the horse say "Oh, alright then" I just felt that there were a couple of moments that, had I been teaching this combination, I would have flagged up for attention.

Michen, I just came back to have another look at the xc videos, ready to apologise if I'd been too harsh. The last thing I want to do is knock you, when you've done a great job on a nice horse. There were a couple of times in each video where he took on a fence that could have done with a check and rebalance beforehand to swap speed for power. What I noticed was him having to snatch his hind legs vertically to get them clear of the fence, rather than them following the front legs over smoothly. That to me says he might have benefited from a check, either from you, or from himself, a few strides out to get a bit of bounce back into the canter before take off. You can get away with it at 90, and quite possibly at 100 on a scopy clever horse (which he is!) Not disputing that he looks like a lot of fun, and he probably feels amazing. Im just thinking aloud re what may need attention before stepping up!

The guy I worked for in Switzerland went like a bat out of hell cross country, but always said that he wouldn't chase optimum times until he knew he could stop the horse in 3 strides at any given moment during the cross country (Swiss Olympic team member, so competing what would be 5* these days). He never actually did it for obvious reasons, but he knew he could. That always made a lot of sense to me.

That’s a me problem though, because I *could* check him but I always thought I’m better to sit quiet and let him jump out of bjs stride rather than interfere.

So I’m thoroughly confused now haha. Do I need to ride him more? Sit up further out and take a pull? Won’t that lead to more awkward jumps if I start faffing around with him?

 

[CanteringCarrot]

As one of the posters who said he looked a bit too full of himself, I'd just like to point out that I am not remotely afraid of a horse that goes forward in the slightest, but I like to be able to say "Oi, mate - lets try this one my way" and have the horse say "Oh, alright then" I just felt that there were a couple of moments that, had I been teaching this combination, I would have flagged up for attention.

Ok, I didn't say that you specifically are afraid. Thanks for clarifying though.

I understand more of what you're point is now that you've elaborated a bit more. It's a good point and I understand and generally agree with what your saying. Your last description was a bit better, or atleast easier for me to understand.

I do feel as though some people ride a bit defensive, lose trust, or are just uncomfortable with the forwardness needed. If that shoe doesn't fit you, then you don't have to wear it

 

[RachelFerd]

Haha kinda feels it when a couple are saying his rounds are a bit terrifying!

I’ll try not to think about it too much and remember that as a rider XC he has never terrified me, nor his semi pro rider.

I honestly look at the videos Xc and think he looks forward and up for it but sensible ?‍

Fwiw, I think the XC looks good. You just don't want to have the SJ worries looming over you too.

The other thing id say, is don't hurry to do it as a 'last' run. Always best to know you have a follow-up run in the calendar so that you KNOW you have a chance to have a confidence building follow up if it doesn't go 100% to plan.

 

[Auslander]

That’s a me problem though, because I *could* check him but I always thought I’m better to sit quiet and let him jump out of bjs stride rather than interfere.

So I’m thoroughly confused now haha. Do I need to ride him more? Sit up further out and take a pull? Won’t that lead to more awkward jumps if I start faffing around with him?

It absolutely depends on the fence.

A wise man once said to me "The last 3 strides belong to the horse", so if you make any required adjustments to how you're laying down the power, you make them before those last 3 strides, then the horse will be able to finish the job off without having to jump awkwardly.

 

[Michen]

It absolutely depends on the fence.

A wise man once said to me "The last 3 strides belong to the horse", so if you make any required adjustments to how you're laying down the power, you make them before those last 3 strides, then the horse will be able to finish the job off without having to jump awkwardly.

Ok but to me that video of him at waverton with the step up then right turn to the downward fence was grand? I didn’t get my line right so you could see me have to go no right Bog and he responds? It felt smooth, easy, I don’t know how else/what else I’d have done there.

Ps appreciate your thoughts, I just didn’t think I had a problem XC until now ?

 

[Patterdale]

So I’m thoroughly confused now haha. Do I need to ride him more? Sit up further out and take a pull? Won’t that lead to more awkward jumps if I start faffing around with him?

Why change what’s working for you?
You’re the one riding the horse. I’m guessing no trainer in real life, or XC official has voiced concerns?

I had a horse very similar, and once we were at pre novice he did stop getting speeding fines. He was definitely fast but we knew each other inside out and messing about with him would have been dangerous. Working together to let him jump the way he jumped wasnt.
He went to a pro once he hit novice who seriously struggling with his jumping because they didn’t like him jumping out of a forward stride, and when he came back he had been taught to chip in and it felt quite terrifying at times.
Definitely better my way ??

 

[Michen]

Fwiw, I think the XC looks good. You just don't want to have the SJ worries looming over you too.

The other thing id say, is don't hurry to do it as a 'last' run. Always best to know you have a follow-up run in the calendar so that you KNOW you have a chance to have a confidence building follow up if it doesn't go 100% to plan.

Thanks appreciate that. My back up last run would be a 70cm HT pairs with Bear ? it totally depends on how life pans out. We may have until October with this or may not. But *technically* next weekend will be our last though I suspect I’ll get the chance to run in August realistically.

Re jumping discovery’s I’m just a bit worried about how much he’s done. He will have done a camp, then evented 3 weeks on the trot, then a camp, then a 70HT, then a weeks hacking hol away from home. It feels a big ask to throw some mid week BS into the mix?

Although given his manner maybe not ?

 

[LEC]

Ok but to me that video of him at waverton with the step up then right turn to the downward fence was grand? I didn’t get my line right so you could see me have to go no right Bog and he responds? It felt smooth, easy, I don’t know how else/what else I’d have done there.

Ps appreciate your thoughts, I just didn’t think I had a problem XC until now ?

As long as you have gears then it doesn’t matter but you need to be able to ride to each type of fence appropriately at the right speed. At 90 you can get away with hardly any gears as the fences are not technical and they are small. At 100 you need more options with gears. Bicton has a classic downhill offset brushes so you need to balance and then ride forwards.

 

[Auslander]

Ok but to me that video of him at waverton with the step up then right turn to the downward fence was grand? I didn’t get my line right so you could see me have to go no right Bog and he responds? It felt smooth, easy, I don’t know how else/what else I’d have done there.

Ps appreciate your thoughts, I just didn’t think I had a problem XC until now ?

I dont think you do have a problem xc at this point. What I'm trying to say, clearly very poorly, is that he finds 90 very easy, and the fences where he could have done with rebalancing weren't a problem for him at this level, but he may benefit from a bit more direction when you go up a level. I feel bad now, as I never intended to imply that you had issues!

 

[Michen]

I dont think you do have a problem xc at this point. What I'm trying to say, clearly very poorly, is that he finds 90 very easy, and the fences where he could have done with rebalancing weren't a problem for him at this level, but he may benefit from a bit more direction when you go up a level. I feel bad now, as I never intended to imply that you had issues!

Aus I think your words were terrifying (haven’t got the signal to scroll up) so I’m even more confused now haha. Is it terrifying or is it “you need to do a few things to get around 100” As those are two very different scenarios.

Apologies if I got what you said wrong!

 

[Auslander]

Aus I think your words were terrifying (haven’t got the signal to scroll up) so I’m even more confused now haha. Is it terrifying or is it “you need to do a few things to get around 100” As those are two very different scenarios.

Apologies if I got what you said wrong!

I can assure you that I didn't say "terrifying". I said "a little uneasy"!

 

[FlyingCircus]

Aus I think your words were terrifying (haven’t got the signal to scroll up) so I’m even more confused now haha. Is it terrifying or is it “you need to do a few things to get around 100” As those are two very different scenarios.

Apologies if I got what you said wrong!

Nope! That was me, a worry wart who doesn't mind jumping off a fast/forward stride, but likes to know I can slow down or stop if needed! To me he doesn't look like you can stop or slow down when you fancy on approach to a fence, but you said you can so who am I to say you can't!

 

[Michen]

I can assure you that I didn't say "terrifying". I said "a little uneasy"!

Aha maybe someone else did I can’t remember! Keep getting a refresh on my phone so will look properly another time.

Thanks for the advice I will take it all onboard ?

 

[Red-1]

It would be the sj that would make me hesitate more than the XC. I usually wait until I am comfortable around a Disco BS before doing 100 BE. Generally I bet he would be fine, but then, at the red fence, he did a sort of hesitate/hang that could have been an issue at a bigger fence.

I do think that I would prefer him being a little more compacted in front of some of the XC fences (not all of them), I think it is possible to have them jumping in their stride rhythm, but I would be more comfortable if that same rhythm had the horse more compact as opposed to strung out.

I know that before now I have said I would wait for something with Boggle, then you have gone and done it and it has been fine, so obviously on those occasions I was being ultra cautious.

 

[Michen]

Those videos you posted a little while back with an instructor really had you sitting up and balancing him even if it meant coming back to trot - I think that was camp? He makes 90 look easy. Does he have more respect as they get bigger or just bowl on with his typical enthusiasm?

Was that earlier this month at camp? I actually feel he does "look" a bit at the bigger fences. Not in a way that says he's going to stop, more of an appraisal. It's weird with him, he goes into the fences and if you didn't know him you'd almost feel he was going to stop.. he sort of clocks them and goes yep cool seen it but at bigger fences it feels like he "reacts" to them more?. I find the more technical definitely the better (so far).

 

[Michen]

He always makes XC look so easy. If he's focused to the jumps and over, I wouldn't care soo much about spooky stuff. It's possible that his adrenaline is up and this is why he's like that. My horse is a spooky horse in general but if I get him pumped up for something he can get more spooky and looky.

I do think there are some things to work on re your SJ, but it's mostly stuff between fences, not the actual fences or height, if that makes sense. So I'd see if I could get some lessons in. If not, I think you might be ok around a 100, it might not be ideal, but it'd also be interesting to see how he responds to a 100 course. If it were me I'd want to do more homework first.

My answer isn't super constructive since I only have a quick minute, and didn't want to read and run!

Edit: I swear I know how to spell ?

My issue is that I'm so rubbish jumping at home. I REALLY need the adrenalin from a comp. I can lose my nerve at home over a cross pole just as quick as I can over a 110 grid. I know this is a huge gap in my own abilities, but I ride better/am braver/can perform out at a comp.

I am very careful not to over jump him, he has hock arthiritis and to be training repeatedly at home as well as competing... I dunno.

I did a camp earlier this month and came away having jumped around 1m course absolutely buzzing, brimming with confidence and switched to BCA 100 only to drop down because of a load of work stress. I wish I could have bottled that feeling and had it now! Camp works great for me as it's repeated sessions in a short space of time plus there's an audience which helps me be less wimpy, plus you can utilise strong cider when overnighting

 

[Lyle]

Just as a note, I picked up in the SJ video that he was disunited quite a lot. If he's disunited it's obviously impossible to have the true quality canter you'd need for him to be able to adjust and, potentially, get out of trouble. Personally, I'd be wanting to make sure the quality of canter and the adjustability is there before competing 100. A tough decision! You know your horse, is there a trusted coach you could mull this over with?

 

[LEC]

You are consistently getting the same feedback from a lot of posters, so now it’s up to you about what you do. The pragmatic approach would to be and go and jump some 1m classes and jump them straight off without doing a 90 first. Tbh I see my course builder friends at every event who do BS and BE and when I have my normal chat there is barely anything in the design for BE100/Disco. this isn’t about putting unnecessary mileage in, it’s about preparation for success.

It baffles me a lot when people motor on and you can see holes and they understand there are holes as well. Holes and safe to compete are slightly different. Safe to compete is a fairly low bench mark, holes can get bigger to the detriment of the horse. They can also be closed with training.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

Just as a note, I picked up in the SJ video that he was disunited quite a lot. If he's disunited it's obviously impossible to have the true quality canter you'd need for him to be able to adjust and, potentially, get out of trouble. Personally, I'd be wanting to make sure the quality of canter and the adjustability is there before competing 100. A tough decision! You know your horse, is there a trusted coach you could mull this over with?

This is what I noticed too and is linked to my earlier comment about needing more work between the fences.

I actually think a majority of your weaknesses come from the canter quality. There are times when I'd like to see him more on his hind end with more of a bounce to his stride with hind end engagement. A bit more air time, almost. Sometimes he seems a bit flat, strung out, or on his forehand a bit. If you work on canter quality this will improve all 3 phases for you.

I'd work on transitions within the gait, and find your maximums re extension and collection. Work on adjustability and make sure you have a good half halt installed. This is extremely valuable. You need that button that says, come back a bit, but with energy and engagement. If you get a canter with more jump, balance, and better quality, this also might encourage him to be more interested in a flying change on course.

Going to a jump in cross canter or even the technically wrong lead just doesn't feel as good to me and you're jump will be even better if you're truly in balance.

My horse (he's only jumping 80, but still) is very sensitive so if you've got your sh*t together on take off and over the fence he will always land on the correct lead. If you're off balance he will land on whatever lead that balance, or lack thereof dictates. If you fudge up the air time and landing he might land disunited, but it's rare (he's done it when the rider slightly twisted their body over the fence). If your horse is also incredibly sensitive to this balance, use it to your advantage. Tune in and ride to get those leads. If the canter quality is good, I can just shift my weight a tad for a flying change at the corner. This is much neater than a cross canter or approach on the "wrong" lead, IMO, even though my horse is very balanced and proficient at counter canter work (dressage).

By the time I got to 100 I would want my canter and leads more polished. I know that this isn't a style class (my horse jumps primarily style classes, he's no speed demon ?) but I think you can take your course from functional and clear to the next level. It should also give you more confidence because the round will feel smoother and more engaged.

It's fine, IMO, if this slows down your time a bit at first. You can add the speed back later once you get the technical stuff down.

So while I do think it's useful to take some SJ lessons, you might actually find some value in dressage or pole lessons. I really think that if you master control of the canter and enhance canter quality, things will fall into place more. I know people don't find this dressage based work interesting, but it pays off and really takes your course to the next level and makes what is ok or good, great. This might be the time to do this. You might be able to get away with it up to 90, but at 100 you may need to refine things a bit more to truly be successful. My training is primarily dressage and I'm rather dressage focused so I'm a bit biased, but I see it with a lot of show jumpers around here. Their flat work is quite frankly, terrifying (yours is not), but they make it around a course. However, if they put more effort into their dressage work they'd be more consistent and even better.