Would you consider buying this horse?

[Ellietotz]

Found out he hasn't lived with mares before so I hope he will be okay.

 

[splashgirl45]

yes, normal to be apprehensive at first.... keep at it

 

[Ellietotz]

He petrified me tonight.

I took him out with my YO and her daughter. He walked out fine but when we all agreed to have a little trot and canter, as soon as they started trotting, he just took off throwing in a buck in the process. I had absolutely nothing in terms of control and never felt him gallop that fast, I didn't think he had it in him if I'm honest. When we all pulled up, he stood there with his head in the air snorting.
We carried on for a little bit and then there was a stampede of other horses and it felt like he was about to explode. He was literally twitching on the spot. When they had passed, the others went to walk on and he was so hypersensitive that he nearly shot forwards when asking to walk.
A few minutes later, he was just jogging with his head in the air, spooking at things and it was just horrible to be honest.
I cut it short and went home on my own. I just wanted to get off. I couldn't even walk back on him without holding his mane passed things and I don't want to feel like this.

I spoke to the girl who has been riding him and the other one for a year and she has never heard of him being like this and he has been out in company with his field mate and other horses he doesn't live with. Bearing in mind, we haven't moved, he is in the same place, just a different field so same hacking too.

Maybe I'm asking for the impossible for a horse to be sane in these situations, hacking alone and in company with one or two others but safety was my biggest priority and I was willing to overlook the other two issues for that but I didn't feel safe tonight.

Not only that but how would you ever know when buying horse what they will be like in all situations. It is such a risk and I just feel like my confidence is really going to effect this whole thing now.

 

[EllenJay]

I am really worried. I don't think this is the right horse for you. All along you have expressed your doubts, even though you intially enjoyed riding him.
Not being critical, but every day there is another thing you are not happy with - if this horse makes your heart sing then these issues wouldn't be a problem. My advise, for what it's worth, this horse is a goldmine, but not for you.
This is not dissing you as an owner/rider but you seem to be unhappy with everything he throws at you. There will be something that suits you better out there

 

[Ellietotz]

I am really worried. I don't think this is the right horse for you. All along you have expressed your doubts, even though you intially enjoyed riding him.
Not being critical, but every day there is another thing you are not happy with - if this horse makes your heart sing then these issues wouldn't be a problem. My advise, for what it's worth, this horse is a goldmine, but not for you.
This is not dissing you as an owner/rider but you seem to be unhappy with everything he throws at you. There will be something that suits you better out there

I was happy to overlook the other issues for how happy and safe he made me feel. We cantered across a common side by side with his field mate with no issues at all. I honestly didn't think he had it in him to be like this. He comes across so sane and happy when ridden usually but tonight he was just wired.

How would I ever know if any horse I look at isn't just going to turn into this? I'm just not confident enough after my mare and I never used to be like this.

 

[Flame_]

I really don't know what to say except sorry to hear it's not all progressing well.

I wouldn't be expecting to be able to hack in all paces, alone and in company on a new horse within this time frame, though maybe it is a reasonable expectation if you are buying an older horse, mainly because it is an established safe hack. You could take some steps back and build your relationship more in safer situations if you wanted to.

Personally, I generally find big, broad horses behaving undesirably more unnerving than when little, lightweight horses do it, so if you have that same predilection towards small horses, that may be what you need to get your bottle back.

Do you have some help from any professionals to help you get the measure of your new boy?

Could you have over-estimated what it was that he did? Was he really out of control or did you just feel what happens when this horse is in tense and excited mode (they all feel it sometimes), because tbf he didn't actually hurt you or unseat you? Do you just need to take things a bit steadier until you feel more relaxed, and consequently, more reassuring to your new horse?

 

[Regandal]

That’s a shame. Has his feed or grass intake changed?

 

[EllenJay]

I was happy to overlook the other issues for how happy and safe he made me feel. We cantered across a common side by side with his field mate with no issues at all. I honestly didn't think he had it in him to be like this. He comes across so sane and happy when ridden usually but tonight he was just wired.

How would I ever know if any horse I look at isn't just going to turn into this? I'm just not confident enough after my mare and I never used to be like this.

Hi - I'm not being critical, but sometimes the "perfect" horse isn't the right horse for you. You did express a number of doubts, but the general consensus of opinion on this board was "snap him up" which on paper and the information given was right. But all along, to me, you have had doubts. These need to be listened to.

When you find a horse that makes you heart sing, all his/her faults/issues become minor - this isn't happening with this boy. I am sure he is lovely, and on paper I would buy, but it's not right for you. You will find the right one xx

 

[splashgirl45]

. its a shame as he sounds like the horse so many people are looking for. maybe he heard the other horses and they spooked him. i have just been on a hack on a riding school horse as i haven t ridden for 2 years and wanted a safe ride. it was pouring with rain and horses were galloping about in the field next to us and my horse was very excited and was snorting and was quite difficult to pull up, the lady taking the ride had never seen him like that , he then calmed down and was fine for the rest of the ride, so even a riding school plod can have his moment..i cant wait to ride him again ...it may be best to pull out of the sale as you dont sound confident enough at the moment..maybe invest in lots of lessons and ride different horses,maybe at a riding school so you get more experience..if you really wanted him you would be wanting to sort the problem out the same as me wanting to ride the same horse again at the riding school, good luck

 

[shortstuff99]

The plus to it though, you were able to stop him and regain control so he is rideable when things go wrong.

It is very hard to find a horse that has a bit of oomph about them that doesn't occasionally be a bit sharp.

But from reading this thread it seems you have quite a big confidence crisis right now, new horses might do some random things you aren't used to. It might be worth finding lessons or similar to help build your confidence?

 

[Ellietotz]

I really don't know what to say except sorry to hear it's not all progressing well.

I wouldn't be expecting to be able to hack in all paces, alone and in company on a new horse within this time frame, though maybe it is a reasonable expectation if you are buying an older horse, mainly because it is an established safe hack. You could take some steps back and build your relationship more in safer situations if you wanted to.

Personally, I generally find big, broad horses behaving undesirably more unnerving than when little, lightweight horses do it, so if you have that same predilection towards small horses, that may be what you need to get your bottle back.

Do you have some help from any professionals to help you get the measure of your new boy?

Could you have over-estimated what it was that he did? Was he really out of control or did you just feel what happens when this horse is in tense and excited mode (they all feel it sometimes), because tbf he didn't actually hurt you or unseat you? Do you just need to take things a bit steadier until you feel more relaxed, and consequently, more reassuring to your new horse?

I wouldn't have expected it either from a different horse but he has been hacking the same route for years and knows the way of the forest so it's not like it is new to him.

I do think the fact that he is a lot bigger and stronger than what I'm used to makes me nervous but every other time I've ridden him, he has been good as gold.

He had done it when we were just supposed to be trotting. He was wired, the others could see it too. Looked like a bomb about to go off and I could feel it. The way he stopped when we pulled up with his head in the air snorting and trembling, it was really unusual for him. He was totally different.

I don't have any professionals that I know personally.

I feel like he probably won't even be like this again for a while because it's just not him but I know he has it in him and I don't want to feel scared that he can switch at any point. I don't know what has caused it.

 

[Ellietotz]

That’s a shame. Has his feed or grass intake changed?

No feed and less grass than he had before.

 

[Ellietotz]

Hi - I'm not being critical, but sometimes the "perfect" horse isn't the right horse for you. You did express a number of doubts, but the general consensus of opinion on this board was "snap him up" which on paper and the information given was right. But all along, to me, you have had doubts. These need to be listened to.

When you find a horse that makes you heart sing, all his/her faults/issues become minor - this isn't happening with this boy. I am sure he is lovely, and on paper I would buy, but it's not right for you. You will find the right one xx

Thank you.
I really appreciate it. I know I've been finding faults, I'm just quite a worrier and have to overthink and analyse everything before making a decision. He really does make me happy when he is being good.
Part of my brain is also telling me I'm stupid for spending £300 odd on a vetting for a horse that has an obvious click too.
He is just so sweet and I guess I'm also doubting that I'll find anything better too. X

 

[EllenJay]

Thank you.
I really appreciate it. I know I've been finding faults, I'm just quite a worrier and have to overthink and analyse everything before making a decision. He really does make me happy when he is being good.
Part of my brain is also telling me I'm stupid for spending £300 odd on a vetting for a horse that has an obvious click too.
He is just so sweet and I guess I'm also doubting that I'll find anything better too. X

There are hundreds of horses out there - if it doesn't feel right there is a reason. Can you ask for a longer trial before you make a decision?

 

[Ellietotz]

. its a shame as he sounds like the horse so many people are looking for. maybe he heard the other horses and they spooked him. i have just been on a hack on a riding school horse as i haven t ridden for 2 years and wanted a safe ride. it was pouring with rain and horses were galloping about in the field next to us and my horse was very excited and was snorting and was quite difficult to pull up, the lady taking the ride had never seen him like that , he then calmed down and was fine for the rest of the ride, so even a riding school plod can have his moment..i cant wait to ride him again ...it may be best to pull out of the sale as you dont sound confident enough at the moment..maybe invest in lots of lessons and ride different horses,maybe at a riding school so you get more experience..if you really wanted him you would be wanting to sort the problem out the same as me wanting to ride the same horse again at the riding school, good luck

He was next to them and we all asked them to trot at the same time. It was like the sound of their hooves just wound him up and he thought it was time to go but he never came across competitive before. I wondered if maybe its because he didn't know the horses? They weren't giving off any vibes of excitement or nervousness, both completely sane so I don't think it was that.
I used to be so confident, my mare was so sharp and unpredictable a lot of the time and extremely quick. We could go full speed dodging trees, jumping logs, even her spooking at absolutely everything, we would be all over the place and I'd just smile and roll my eyes at her antics but towards the end when her spooking got worse and she was spinning constantly before retirement, she had made me lose so much confidence and I'm finding it hard to not feel like every horse is going to slam on the brakes and spin at any given moment. He was the first one to not make me feel like that.

 

[Ellietotz]

There are hundreds of horses out there - if it doesn't feel right there is a reason. Can you ask for a longer trial before you make a decision?

I have until next Thursday but I'm now scared to even try that again if I'm honest.

 

[Ellietotz]

The plus to it though, you were able to stop him and regain control so he is rideable when things go wrong.

It is very hard to find a horse that has a bit of oomph about them that doesn't occasionally be a bit sharp.

But from reading this thread it seems you have quite a big confidence crisis right now, new horses might do some random things you aren't used to. It might be worth finding lessons or similar to help build your confidence?

I'm confident in the school as I guess it's like a safe place. The forest is very unpredictable with different animals, monsters in bushes etc so there are a lot of "hazards". Can you get hacking type lessons?

 

[SatansLittleHelper]

I personally think it's all a bit too early to write him off BUT only you can decide what to do and if he's right for you. If he's alot bigger than you are used to it's worth bearing in mind he's not getting any smaller so if size is an issue give it serious thought.
I think your confidence has taken a bit knock of late and I suspect that you will have these worries with ANY horse you have at the moment....confidence rebuilding takes time so go easy on yourself.

 

[Red-1]

I would say, take a breath and step back for a day or so.

Think about how you would feel if someone else bought him.

Think about how you would feel if you bought him.

Just sit with the thoughts and let your feelings come clear.

It is right that no horse feels perfect, but some make you not mind the tricky bits. You don't have to buy. It is supposed to be fun.

 

[brighteyes]

Are you having 'flashbacks' and are you a nervous rider generally?
If his plan is to remove you, regardless, that is a problem. He doesn't know you either and the relationship you have to build to get that is key.

I thought I was a sensible, 'I know my limits', intermediate type of rider and in no way interested in riding complicated sharpness. But it must be how we perceive it. Not knowing the horse beneath you can magnify the behaviour so it seems worse than it is.

My new horse pulled some occasional nonsense for the first maybe 12 months, BUT he never actually harmed me - other than one time about 12 months in he did some stupid hopping about and I was dislodged beyond the point of staying on! Boy did I tell him that was not acceptable and I swear he frightened himself more than me. He has NEVER done that thing since. Added to the times he could have easily removed me (during the long process of retraining a successful hurdler) and didn't, I don't see him as sharp, unpredictable or difficult at all. In fact I feel as safe as I have ever felt, yet his reputation in work was of a sharp and highly focussed horse. My boy is kind. Beyond that he is a horse and they do stuff.

The main differences here are my length of time as a rider of all types and the fact I haven't had to buy him! I think I'd view him very differently if the trial period was brief and I was parting with a lot of money. I haven't the guts now to buy one, so I totally get where you are.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

I spoke to the girl who has been riding him and the other one for a year and she has never heard of him being like this and he has been out in company with his field mate and other horses he doesn't live with. Bearing in mind, we haven't moved, he is in the same place, just a different field so same hacking too.

OK so you have apparently experienced him at his very worst and most wound up.

You need to decide if you can cope with it or not.

When you are out and about, stuff happens that you cannot control. You meet a car with flat tyres being chased by the cops, a steam engine, two men with a canoe, a cross swan, a loose horse, a flock of runaway sheep or a helicopter that's just landed and you have to deal with it.

BTW - my crazy list is all things that I have encountered out hacking. Shit happens. You know what he's like when things go a bit wrong, can you deal with it?

There is no shame in saying 'no' and looking for a quieter horse.

 

[southerncomfort]

That’s a shame. Has his feed or grass intake changed?

This is what I was wondering. Do you have more or richer grass in your field than he is used to?

If he's literally never done it before then I'm going to say he's giddy on spring grass, added to which a lot has suddenly changed in his life and its all blown his brain a bit.

I'm certain he will settle, and you know you'll have to go through this period with any horse you buy, however to me you've never sounded 100% certain about him. And to be honest, cobs aren't for everyone. They can become downright rude if not kept in check.

I think its OK to say that cobs aren't for you and if you're not happy with him I wouldn't buy him.

 

[Ellietotz]

Are you having 'flashbacks' and are you a nervous rider generally?
If his plan is to remove you, regardless, that is a problem. He doesn't know you either and the relationship you have to build to get that is key.

I thought I was a sensible, 'I know my limits', intermediate type of rider and in no way interested in riding complicated sharpness. But it must be how we perceive it. Not knowing the horse beneath you can magnify the behaviour so it seems worse than it is.

My new horse pulled some occasional nonsense for the first maybe 12 months, BUT he never actually harmed me - other than one time about 12 months in he did some stupid hopping about and I was dislodged beyond the point of staying on! Boy did I tell him that was not acceptable and I swear he frightened himself more than me. He has NEVER done that thing since. Added to the times he could have easily removed me (during the long process of retraining a successful hurdler) and didn't, I don't see him as sharp, unpredictable or difficult at all. In fact I feel as safe as I have ever felt, yet his reputation in work was of a sharp and highly focussed horse. My boy is kind. Beyond that he is a horse and they do stuff.

The main differences here are my length of time as a rider of all types and the fact I haven't had to buy him! I think I'd view him very differently if the trial period was brief and I was parting with a lot of money. I haven't the guts now to buy one, so I totally get where you are.

Yes, flashbacks is definitely the right way to put it. My mare would suddenly slam on the brakes and spin constantly at anything. I only ever came off her once so that isn't what made me lose confidence, I think it was just the fear and how scary it was when she did it.
I don't think he was trying to remove me, he just got very excited and because I don't know him, I don't know how far he would go which is the same for any new horse.
I expect if I knew that that is how far he would go and that I'd have control, I'd have just rolled my eyes and thought he was being funny. Maybe now that I know that he can do that, it wouldn't be so bad and I could possibly cope with it. Although, he was very spooky and the whole thing I wanted was to not have spooking like that. I don't mind his usual looking and moving away or quickly shooting forwards a couple of steps but he did get quite sharp when he was on his toes. However, he is so wide that it doesn't unseat you so it isn't scary but I still have the memory of how my mare would react.
I have never bought a horse before so it is daunting and new.

 

[Ellietotz]

This is what I was wondering. Do you have more or richer grass in your field than he is used to?

If he's literally never done it before then I'm going to say he's giddy on spring grass, added to which a lot has suddenly changed in his life and its all blown his brain a bit.

I'm certain he will settle, and you know you'll have to go through this period with any horse you buy, however to me you've never sounded 100% certain about him. And to be honest, cobs aren't for everyone. They can become downright rude if not kept in check.

I think its OK to say that cobs aren't for you and if you're not happy with him I wouldn't buy him.

My field is a hedge away from his usual one so I wouldn't have thought so? He has much less grass than he did.
Could it have been that he was with new horses so it was exciting?
He is unsettled this morning so not quite sure what is going on. He has never lived with mares before so not sure if that is playing a part or not too.
My mare is now not in season too so she isn't fussed on him and happy to hide in the shelter out of sight of him so maybe he is suddenly very attached already?

 

[Ellietotz]

OK so you have apparently experienced him at his very worst and most wound up.

You need to decide if you can cope with it or not.

When you are out and about, stuff happens that you cannot control. You meet a car with flat tyres being chased by the cops, a steam engine, two men with a canoe, a cross swan, a loose horse, a flock of runaway sheep or a helicopter that's just landed and you have to deal with it.

BTW - my crazy list is all things that I have encountered out hacking. Shit happens. You know what he's like when things go a bit wrong, can you deal with it?

There is no shame in saying 'no' and looking for a quieter horse.

That is some very random hazards!
When I rode him with his usual field mate, we encountered a stampede then too and walked right passed a 4 horse carriage too with no issues. Essentially, last night was like being on a massive version of my mare which wasn't what I was looking for but if it is just a one off then that isn't the end of the world.

I did find out that one of his sharers actually came off him and broke her back. I am told that they were riding him with his field mate, they got excited when cantering, he went in one direction and she went the other.

 

[Ellietotz]

I would say, take a breath and step back for a day or so.

Think about how you would feel if someone else bought him.

Think about how you would feel if you bought him.

Just sit with the thoughts and let your feelings come clear.

It is right that no horse feels perfect, but some make you not mind the tricky bits. You don't have to buy. It is supposed to be fun.

When I pulled up last night, I saw someone out riding and it looked exactly like him and my heart just dropped. I thought someone had taken him out and I felt sick!

I told the owner last night about what happened just to see if this was out of character for him. I was bombarded with messages about if I still wanted him and said about 3 times I still wanted to give him a chance at least until the vetting.
I had a message from his sharer today saying she has asked her to take him from my field and put him back as I don't want him! Fuming to say the least. She won't do it and rightly so, she can't come onto my fields or YOs land without our permission. I have told the owner again that I still want to give him a chance so she has accepted this, I think, though who knows what she is saying to the sharer. I'm sure buying a horse shouldn't be this stressful!

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

I really do feel you now need to back away from this purchase, for your sake and the sake of this horse. I was one of the posters who felt this horse sounded great for you, going by your description of him and how you initially felt about him.

I now think he is very possibly one of those horses that takes its confidence from it's rider and just cannot deal with a nervous rider on their back. From your further posts it does seem as though you are ultra nervous on him despite how much you initially felt good about him. There is no shame into that whatsoever, been there got the Tshirt - you just have to accept he is not quite the perfect gent you thought he was, and he needs a confident rider to keep him focused and calm in all situations. And sadly you are not that rider and he is not that horse you had painted in your mind.

I can think of several horses I have owned when I was younger who I rode quite happily without any issues, I know now I am much older and my confidence is not great, that they would have reacted in exactly that way if I rode them today. They just know!

If this was a new yard, new horses, new hacking route I would be saying give it time - in this case I think walk away. So sorry OP but that is my very honest opinion.

 

[brighteyes]

OK so you have apparently experienced him at his very worst and most wound up.

You need to decide if you can cope with it or not.

When you are out and about, stuff happens that you cannot control. You meet a car with flat tyres being chased by the cops, a steam engine, two men with a canoe, a cross swan, a loose horse, a flock of runaway sheep or a helicopter that's just landed and you have to deal with it.

BTW - my crazy list is all things that I have encountered out hacking. Shit happens. You know what he's like when things go a bit wrong, can you deal with it?

There is no shame in saying 'no' and looking for a quieter horse.

I'd cr@p myself if any of that happened and I trust my lad! But I'd not blame him for his reaction.

 

[Ellietotz]

I really do feel you now need to back away from this purchase, for your sake and the sake of this horse. I was one of the posters who felt this horse sounded great for you, going by your description of him and how you initially felt about him.

I now think he is very possibly one of those horses that takes its confidence from it's rider and just cannot deal with a nervous rider on their back. From your further posts it does seem as though you are ultra nervous on him despite how much you initially felt good about him. There is no shame into that whatsoever, been there got the Tshirt - you just have to accept he is not quite the perfect gent you thought he was, and he needs a confident rider to keep him focused and calm in all situations. And sadly you are not that rider and he is not that horse you had painted in your mind.

I can think of several horses I have owned when I was younger who I rode quite happily without any issues, I know now I am much older and my confidence is not great, that they would have reacted in exactly that way if I rode them today. They just know!

If this was a new yard, new horses, new hacking route I would be saying give it time - in this case I think walk away. So sorry OP but that is my very honest opinion.

Thank you, I appreciate this.
I didn't start the ride unconfident at all, I was probably a bit too confident about it thinking he will be fine, we will plop at the back etc as that is just how he is. I didn't cease up on him, I talked to him very slow and low to keep him calm after it had happened but he did it when I was confident so I wasn't giving him any vibes at that point. Every other ride I've had on him, I wasn't scared at all and felt we could do anything.
That's the thing, it isn't a new area so there was no apparent reason for it unless it was just because we were with two new horses who he didn't know.

 

[brighteyes]

Yes, flashbacks is definitely the right way to put it. My mare would suddenly slam on the brakes and spin constantly at anything. I only ever came off her once so that isn't what made me lose confidence, I think it was just the fear and how scary it was when she did it.
I don't think he was trying to remove me, he just got very excited and because I don't know him, I don't know how far he would go which is the same for any new horse.
I expect if I knew that that is how far he would go and that I'd have control, I'd have just rolled my eyes and thought he was being funny. Maybe now that I know that he can do that, it wouldn't be so bad and I could possibly cope with it. Although, he was very spooky and the whole thing I wanted was to not have spooking like that. I don't mind his usual looking and moving away or quickly shooting forwards a couple of steps but he did get quite sharp when he was on his toes. However, he is so wide that it doesn't unseat you so it isn't scary but I still have the memory of how my mare would react.
I have never bought a horse before so it is daunting and new.

As I thought. It is/was exactly the same with my wonderful ex racer Mr B. Also the 'anyone's ride by the end but once rearer/napper due to lack of confidence out on his own' Fintan and my beautiful but so uncertain and never got over her fear of flapping things (except when I said it'll be OK) lovely V. They will do things because they are essentially operating as sole charge before they know and trust you. You NEED the confidence and desire to work through it. Nobody else has had these issues. He is NOT your mare and you need to stop riding with her in your head. If you want him enough, you'll be happy to work through it.