Would you expect a YO to be able/willing to remove a shoe?

Ambers Echo

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Just curious really. Wondering if I need to do some expectation management! I've been on holiday and the horses have been on full livery. I am on a pretty expensive competition yard with good facilities and an onsite YO who is a former pro rider. I got a phone call yesterday saying Toby's shoe had slid back and he was a bit lame. Though she felt it was just because the shoe was in the wrong place and he'd be sound as soon as the shoe was off.

I asked her if she had taken the shoe off and she said she would not be willing to do that. I texted my farrier but got no reply so this morning decided to come home early and take it off myself. I thought shoe removal was a pretty basic skill? It's in the Stage 2 care curriculum! Anyway I am pretty upset now because it was clear immediately that he is uncomfortable on that foot even without the shoe. I think the a nail or 2 has got into some sensitive areas. He's not hopping lame by any means but is definitely a bit sore. But fingers crossed he has not done any damage......
 

milliepops

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No I would not expect a yard owner to remove a shoe .
I remove shoes from my own horses but when I ran a yard I would not have done a livery’s .
If the farrier was not quickly available I would have called a vet to remove it .
so the last one I took off was a friend's horse who had stood on his shoe and had a nail on and off puncturing the sole and a toe clip stuck in the white line. he couldn't put the foot down so given the nail was already going in and out we whipped it off and got a poultice on quickly. I really would have expected a YO to take a shoe off in those circumstances, if the owner is away and the horse is on full livery - it's an emergency o_O
 

Ambers Echo

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I asked the YO if I needed to get the vet out and she seemed very clear that I did not need to do that. But I wish I had now. This is a very experienced YO - she pulls foals, handles tricky comp horses, helps with rehab etc. I don't know why shoes were a no no.
 

chocolategirl

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As a YO myself, I would and have done this, but I won’t do it without the owners full permission. Mine is a diy yard with optional assistance, so there has been an odd time I’ve brought a horse in, and they’ve done a similar thing to yours OP. I’ve used my judgement, and though I’m not in anyway ‘qualified ‘ on paper, I have got 45 years experience with horses. If I think that more damage will be done by leaving it on, I’ll take it off, though the owner understands fully that if a chunk of hoof comes off with it, that’s just unfortunate (luckily that’s never happened!) in fairness, I can understand why some yo’s Wouldn’t be willing to though 🤷‍♀️
 

milliepops

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No I would not expect that of a YO, I would however expect them to have got a farrier there pronto to do the removal though.

Is removing a shoe in the stage 2 curriculum now? It wasnt when I did my stages although that was over 20 years ago now
I did it in my stage 2 :) obv didn't actually remove a shoe in the exam but you had to describe how you would approach it.
 

Ambers Echo

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No I would not expect that of a YO, I would however expect them to have got a farrier there pronto to do the removal though.

Is removing a shoe in the stage 2 curriculum now? It wasnt when I did my stages although that was over 20 years ago now
Yep. You don't actually remove a shoe but you have to simulate removing one and describe how you would do it.
 

teapot

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Having seen incidents where shoes have needed removing immediately, I would say it's a very handy skill to have a senior staff member willing and able to do so and with the correct tools, especially on a yard of multiple horses.

ETS: short of actually doing it, I had hoof between legs, and tools in hand during my two exam!
 

Ambers Echo

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If they provide full livery then yes, they should perticularly if the horse is in danger of doing damage to itself.
At the very least I would expect them to arrange a farrier the same day, wouldn’t have to be the horses normal farrier just to take a shoe off.
She would not even contact the farrier as it was Sunday. So I texted mine but from 250 miles away it was not easy to sort it.
 

milliepops

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She would not even contact the farrier as it was Sunday. So I texted mine but from 250 miles away it was not easy to sort it.
tbh this would make me lose confidence in her providing full livery in the future. I've been in a similar situ where I didn't trust the YO to make the right call when i was away, it's an awkward feeling, to arrange for someone else to step in :(
 

PapaverFollis

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I can see both sides of this but if I was on holiday and my horse on full livery I would expect appropriate action to be taken. Leaving a shoe half off for any longer than absolutely necessary is not at all fair on the horse in my view. But I can see why a YO might prefer a farrier to do it.
 

Evie91

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I wouldn’t necessarily expect it of YO- but would expect they called farrier/vet if they didn’t feel confident/comfortable to do it themselves.

Having said that my YO (her husband) removed a twisted shoe from my previous horse, horse could barely put her foot down, as toe clip was jabbing her sole. I was very grateful, horses relief was immediate and no damage done.
 

Ambers Echo

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I can see both sides of this but if I was on holiday and my horse on full livery I would expect appropriate action to be taken. Leaving a shoe half off for any longer than absolutely necessary is not at all fair on the horse in my view. But I can see why a YO might prefer a farrier to do it.
I'm lucky my family were very understanding about cutting our holiday short. Amber buggered herself twisting a shoe off so I was feeling kike I really needed to be at home. I thought I was over reacting and he'd be totally fine. I'm so glad I came home. This morning she arranged for the farrier to come on Wednesday which would have been awful - 2 more days of nails in the wrong place! Though I;d have got the vet rather than wait till Wed tbh.

MP, I have already decided they are not being looked after by her in future if I am away.
 

ycbm

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I wouldn't necessarily expect a yard owner to do it because it can be a bugger of a job to do, but I would certainly expect a full livery yard to have an on-call farrier who they could get out to do it whether the horse was normally shod by that farrier or not.
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SO1

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My YO can do it & has the tools. I have seen her do it. However she is quite strong & I didn't think it looked that easy. The other issue may have been insurance. If she had removed the shoe & damaged the foot your insurance might not have covered any treatment as it was removed by someone who was not a vet or farrier.

In this case I would have expected her to call you explain the situation & ask you what you wanted her to do either call farrier or vet.
 

chaps89

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I wouldn't necessarily expect a yard owner to do it because it can be a bugger of a job to do, but I would certainly expect a full livery yard to have an on-call farrier who they could get out to do it whether the horse was normally shod by that farrier or not.
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This.
I know the theory of how to pull a shoe but when it came to having to do it earlier this year I was damned if I could actually get it off.
I'd fully expect yard farrier to be out to do it if person caring for the horse at the time couldn't do it themself.
Unfortunately horses do silly things to themselves and I'd like to hope professionals such as farriers and vets know that and so long as an owner doesn't take the piss (oh the shoes been loose all week and I've realised I have a lesson tomorrow type thing) then it being a Sunday wouldn't put me off contacting them at all if I'm honest.
 

LadyGascoyne

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I wouldn't expect them to but on full livery I would expect them to call out someone else who could (including if they were concerned about their own insurance)
I wouldn't necessarily expect a yard owner to do it because it can be a bugger of a job to do, but I would certainly expect a full livery yard to have an on-call farrier who they could get out to do it whether the horse was normally shod by that farrier or not.
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Yes, absolutely.

On full livery, I would expect the shoe to be removed- by who and how would be up to to the YO but the shoe should have been off, and organised by the yard.

I’d expect an FYI text if I was away, and a bill as necessary.
 

Ambers Echo

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My YO can do it & has the tools. I have seen her do it. However she is quite strong & I didn't think it looked that easy. The other issue may have been insurance. If she had removed the shoe & damaged the foot your insurance might not have covered any treatment as it was removed by someone who was not a vet or farrier.
She happily pulls other people's foals so I don't think she's bothered about insurance. But with the shoe she just did not seem to think it mattered very much. Oh well, live and learn. It's off now and keeping everything crossed he is totally fine. I am feeling pretty anxious now. :(
 

wills_91

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I would not expect my horse to be left like this, I would be extremely hacked off if I had to cut my holiday short. If nobody on site is able/confident then either farrier or vet call out. I would be happy for yo to have arranged either option. Glad he seems to be okay
 

Tiddlypom

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This morning she arranged for the farrier to come on Wednesday which would have been awful - 2 more days of nails in the wrong place! Though I;d have got the vet rather than wait till Wed tbh.
Making the horse wait til Wednesday was a very poor call, and would be a sackable offence in my view. I would not trust her again to care for my horse.

She should have got a farrier or a vet out as a matter of urgency.
 

Red-1

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I would not expect the YO to do this, but would be extremely grateful if they did.

As far as the stage 2 is concerned, it is an example as to why the exam isn't worth as much as experience. The students I taught had a session with a farrier, where they did actually remove a shoe. It is extremely difficult. I can't believe the BHS thinks simulating this is suitable to pass an exam. Likely to do more harm than good.

It would be better if a registered farrier had to sign you off as having actually achieved it.
 
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