Angry, disgusted, devestated...trust no one!!!

I manage a yard of 70 horses, There are also 6 Grass Liveries ( and the majority of the work horses also live out)

I check each of those horses daily for condition, including the grass livery ones ( even thought their owner comes once a day anyway) a quick glance over for cuts and condition takes a millisecond...

What the YO has done is so wrong on SO many levels. Even if the OP was behind on rent was late picking the horse up, had fallen out with YO any one of these scenerios the horse was neglected and left in a state it could barely walk. Regardles of what I think of an owner, I could hate their guts! I would not see any horse left like this. In this case the Owner was not only a paying customer but also a friend, and has also been lied to regarding whart condition the horse was in. She had no need to worry or a need to check when her 'friend and yard manager' had agreed to look after her.

I would be contacting the RSPCA, I would also get a full report from the vet as evidence.

What a terrible story, and how the mare must of suffered.
 
So sorry for your loss OP, its an appalling way to lose your horse, you certainly dont have to justify yourself to posters on here, especially those that can't be bothered to read all the thread before posting.
Quick question to the posters who think that the op is to blame for this
Ill be leaving my tb for 4 weeks when I return to the UK, I'll be paying to have him fed, checked on, rugged and looked after. If I return after 4 weeks and find him dead from hunger, will that be my fault?
Kx
 
i have followed this post right from the start and i am so sorry to hear you have lost your mare op :(

i actually cant understand some of the comments on here, you paid your so called friend to take care of your horse and trusted her to do this!!!

I used to manage a full livery yard we had 20 stabled and 7 out at grass, sometimes i didnt see the owners for 4-5 weeks yet i cared for those horses as if they were my own, everyday the grass liveries were checked twice a day given hay, rugs removed and put back on extras added if needed for bad weather and also all legs etc checked for cuts bruises etc!!! if a prob arose owner was immediatly informed and prob dealt with usually by myself!!!

If you are paid to care for someones horse that is what you do!!!

Please dont blame yourself and hope you get justice for your mare.

Rip little mare ((hugs )) for you op xx
 
I am really sorry that you lost your mare. I hope to hear that you have taken some action against this YO that allowed her to get into such a state. wether I was being paid or not I would never allow a horse either in my care or known to me to get into this state without doing something about it.
 
I am very sad to hear your mare died. So sorry. I havent read all the replies since I first posted but from the few I did read it seemed you weren't to blame.
Im in a situation currenlty where im paying an awful lot of money to a livery yard and my TB is loosing weight. If I had to go away for 3 months im not sure I would find my horse in a particularly good place either and mine is in and has some hay. TB's drop off so quickly that they can look awful before anyone has had a chance to notice. They are'nt like cobs and natives. Really sorry, this story is hitting home to me a bit at the moment :(.
 
I don't think it matters if the horse is a tb or not. It should be fed and checked, weight monitored, every day,regardless - I hate hearing "he is so difficult to keep weight on - he is tb of course..."
Then feed it/rug it/provide shelter/vet care appropriately!! Most of all, just pay attention!

The horse being a particular breed is of no importance in this case. Thousands of t.b's are in training and never see their owners. The Y.O. is paid to care for them, not to neglect them, no matter what kind of livery. He/she has a duty to look at the animals they are responsible for and feed/ or take action according to what they observe.
Again, I am so sorry for your loss - she looked beautiful.
 
Noseyparker said:
I manage a yard of 70 horses, There are also 6 Grass Liveries ( and the majority of the work horses also live out)

I check each of those horses daily for condition, including the grass livery ones ( even thought their owner comes once a day anyway) a quick glance over for cuts and condition takes a millisecond...

What the YO has done is so wrong on SO many levels. Even if the OP was behind on rent was late picking the horse up, had fallen out with YO any one of these scenerios the horse was neglected and left in a state it could barely walk. Regardles of what I think of an owner, I could hate their guts! I would not see any horse left like this. In this case the Owner was not only a paying customer but also a friend, and has also been lied to regarding whart condition the horse was in. She had no need to worry or a need to check when her 'friend and yard manager' had agreed to look after her.

I would be contacting the RSPCA, I would also get a full report from the vet as evidence.

What a terrible story, and how the mare must of suffered.
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Exactly this. I am very sorry for your loss OP. Please do not blame yourself
 
Noseyparker said:
I manage a yard of 70 horses, There are also 6 Grass Liveries ( and the majority of the work horses also live out)

I check each of those horses daily for condition, including the grass livery ones ( even thought their owner comes once a day anyway) a quick glance over for cuts and condition takes a millisecond...

What the YO has done is so wrong on SO many levels. Even if the OP was behind on rent was late picking the horse up, had fallen out with YO any one of these scenerios the horse was neglected and left in a state it could barely walk. Regardles of what I think of an owner, I could hate their guts! I would not see any horse left like this. In this case the Owner was not only a paying customer but also a friend, and has also been lied to regarding whart condition the horse was in. She had no need to worry or a need to check when her 'friend and yard manager' had agreed to look after her.

I would be contacting the RSPCA, I would also get a full report from the vet as evidence.

What a terrible story, and how the mare must of suffered.
Click to expand...



THIS!!! So sorry for your loss. Please don't blame yourself. It is not your fault this happened. Hugs xx
 
Thank you again for all your kind messages. Its been such a difficult and stressful time for me and my OH.

Spoke to RSPCA who seemed pretty interested to investagate further, took all the details and I said I had pictures but they asked to see her body so I passed on the cremation companies details so I assume they will be going to see her today :(

Also got in touch with the BSJA (as the YO in question is an official judge) who said to keep them in the loop.

Had a reply from the solicitor who gave me a list of evidence I need to gather, all of which I can get no problem but it seems it is going to cost way more than I can afford and I will only get back her purchase price and the livery I have paid...what about all the vets bills I now have coming my way?! :( any body have any suggestions, I'm not bothered about conpensation, I just want justice for my mare and I believe I shouldn't have to pay for these un necessary vets bills. At my wits end now :(
 
This news is a small glimmer of good in a horrid situation. Does the solicitor say that you cannot claim the vets fees? Ask if smalll claims court is worth a try - but I do know that this costs and sometimes, even if they find in your favour, the other person can just ignore the court's decision.
Sending pm.
 
IMO... If it's justice you want, don't go round the court route unless you can get someone to represent you FOC.

Do what you're doing now, compile the evidence, have rspca involved and contact bsja.
I'd pay bills and then send an invoice to the YO. She may come to an agreement to settle and not pursue rather than losing yourself more money than the vet bills.
 
silvershoes said:
Thank you again for all your kind messages. Its been such a difficult and stressful time for me and my OH.

Spoke to RSPCA who seemed pretty interested to investagate further, took all the details and I said I had pictures but they asked to see her body so I passed on the cremation companies details so I assume they will be going to see her today :(

Also got in touch with the BSJA (as the YO in question is an official judge) who said to keep them in the loop.

Had a reply from the solicitor who gave me a list of evidence I need to gather, all of which I can get no problem but it seems it is going to cost way more than I can afford and I will only get back her purchase price and the livery I have paid...what about all the vets bills I now have coming my way?! :( any body have any suggestions, I'm not bothered about conpensation, I just want justice for my mare and I believe I shouldn't have to pay for these un necessary vets bills. At my wits end now :(
Click to expand...

I don't know what sort of solicitor you have but I would have though you have an excellent case for damages - fraud - taking money under false pretenses - failing to execute fudicary care, failing in every contractual manner and on top of that - standing by and doing nothing in an undoubted case of animal cruelty - I see that as something you could sue their sorry a**es for - however; you do have to stump up the money first - the fear of loosing puts many folk off litigating and that reluctance helps to ensure themselves or people like them will do the same thing again.

Sometimes though the very threat of a big court case - especially if you go in hard to begin - can produce the desired effect.
 
1stclassalan said:
I don't know what sort of solicitor you have but I would have though you have an excellent case for damages - fraud - taking money under false pretenses - failing to execute fudicary care, failing in every contractual manner and on top of that - standing by and doing nothing in an undoubted case of animal cruelty - I see that as something you could sue their sorry a**es for - however; you do have to stump up the money first - the fear of loosing puts many folk off litigating and that reluctance helps to ensure themselves or people like them will do the same thing again.

Sometimes though the very threat of a big court case - especially if you go in hard to begin - can produce the desired effect.
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I really don't want to write what I'm writing on such a sad thread but in response to above there are a couple of points which may not make this such an easy case to win.

The OP says she owes the YO one months rent for the 2 horses, so I don't think the 'taking money under false pretences' could be argued as the YO wasn't paid for looking after the 2 horses for the past month.

If all the other horses were in decent condition and the only one who was so emaciated, even though there was apparently hay in the field, then unless OP has paid for an autopsy how does anyone know why the mare lost so much weight so quickly, eventually leading to her death? Horses can drop huge amounts of weight very quickly, within days in some circumstances, rarely because of lack of feed, generally because of an acute medical condition. Now yes granted the YO should have noticed and contacted the owner to let her know that the horse was losing condition so as far as I can see, this is the only thing that is rock-solid in this sad story, so what charges could be brought against YO for not getting in touch with the owner?

And as to the threat of a very big court case, what outcome does the OP want? Financial? Apology?
 
Is it definite that neglect was the cause of the mare dying? I wonder whether she had somehting like grass sickness, which can make a horse look like a bag of bones within days. I may have missed something, but am curious to know if this has been discounted.
 
Spring Feather said:
...
The OP says she owes the YO one months rent for the 2 horses, so I don't think the 'taking money under false pretences' could be argued as the YO wasn't paid for looking after the 2 horses for the past month...
Click to expand...

This part is what I'm unclear about - the last three yards I've been at have billed in arrears, a week, a fortnight, a month, whatever your personal payment schedule is - so in my experience it's technically not a debt. Or is it normal to pay in advance?

If I ran a yard it would certainly be simpler to bill in arrears, so you know where you are with hay, straw, wormers etc, rather than in advance for field rent and arrears for extras.

OP, glad you've got the ball rolling. I hope you do get some recompense, but if not, at least you'll have tried, and hopefully put the fear of god up your "friend".

At the very least I'd try billing her for vet's bills, in if/when she ignores it, hit her with small claims (with a bit on for your own stress and pain and suffering) like others have suggested. If you win, and she doesn't pay up, send in the bailiffs, and hopefully she'll end up with a CCJ which won't do her business standing much good.

Personally, I'd prefer to ram her teeth down her throat then leave her in a field unable to eat, but that's just me.
 
Sorry to hear about your mare! Hope she makes a full recovery.

However, what does concern me is the length of time it took the HO to attend to their horses. I mean come on 2 months is a very long time not to check your horses and especially in the winter!! What did your other horse look like on it's return? Was it thin too? What was the state of the other horses in the field? Was there haylage in the field? In your agreement did you pay more than the requested "Grass livery" fee to the YO to check your horse; friend or not!!
I have two horses on livery in the south which costs a lot of money, but I also pay extra to have the YO check my horses when I am away working (which is quite often). I also pay extra in the winter for haylage as we all know grass is in short supply during winter months.
Personally, I don't think you are giving the YO a fair deal here! The YO has the responsibility of providing you with the land and for the up-keep of the field, but IT IS NOT THEIR RESPONSIBILITY to care for other peoples' horses (unless it is agreed prior to you moving)
It is also important that the livery fee is paid on-time as this makes things easier and then possibly the YO will show "good-will" and actually check the horses! A suggestion that possibly you should pay the livery bills if you intend on taking things further?! This will show you in a better light!
Have you contacted the RSPCA over your concerns as if the other horses are in a state this could possibly be a good thing to do?! If you have aleady done so - what was the outcome?
Have you had blood taken from your horse to check for any underlying problems, or are you just pure an simply trying to shift the blame onto others for your own neglegence?
Sorry if this sounds harsh, but I used to run my own yard and know how it feels to have things discussed behind their backs!
 
concernedyardowner said:
Sorry to hear about your mare! Hope she makes a full recovery.

However, what does concern me is the length of time it took the HO to attend to their horses. I mean come on 2 months is a very long time not to check your horses and especially in the winter!! What did your other horse look like on it's return? Was it thin too? What was the state of the other horses in the field? Was there haylage in the field? In your agreement did you pay more than the requested "Grass livery" fee to the YO to check your horse; friend or not!!
I have two horses on livery in the south which costs a lot of money, but I also pay extra to have the YO check my horses when I am away working (which is quite often). I also pay extra in the winter for haylage as we all know grass is in short supply during winter months.
Personally, I don't think you are giving the YO a fair deal here! The YO has the responsibility of providing you with the land and for the up-keep of the field, but IT IS NOT THEIR RESPONSIBILITY to care for other peoples' horses (unless it is agreed prior to you moving)
It is also important that the livery fee is paid on-time as this makes things easier and then possibly the YO will show "good-will" and actually check the horses! A suggestion that possibly you should pay the livery bills if you intend on taking things further?! This will show you in a better light!
Have you contacted the RSPCA over your concerns as if the other horses are in a state this could possibly be a good thing to do?! If you have aleady done so - what was the outcome?
Have you had blood taken from your horse to check for any underlying problems, or are you just pure an simply trying to shift the blame onto others for your own neglegence?
Sorry if this sounds harsh, but I used to run my own yard and know how it feels to have things discussed behind their backs!
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For gods sake read the whole thread

THE HORSE IS DEAD

The OP has already answered these questions, dont put her through it again
 
concernedyardowner said:
Sorry to hear about your mare! Hope she makes a full recovery.

However, what does concern me is the length of time it took the HO to attend to their horses. I mean come on 2 months is a very long time not to check your horses and especially in the winter!! What did your other horse look like on it's return? Was it thin too? What was the state of the other horses in the field? Was there haylage in the field? In your agreement did you pay more than the requested "Grass livery" fee to the YO to check your horse; friend or not!!
I have two horses on livery in the south which costs a lot of money, but I also pay extra to have the YO check my horses when I am away working (which is quite often). I also pay extra in the winter for haylage as we all know grass is in short supply during winter months.
Personally, I don't think you are giving the YO a fair deal here! The YO has the responsibility of providing you with the land and for the up-keep of the field, but IT IS NOT THEIR RESPONSIBILITY to care for other peoples' horses (unless it is agreed prior to you moving)
It is also important that the livery fee is paid on-time as this makes things easier and then possibly the YO will show "good-will" and actually check the horses! A suggestion that possibly you should pay the livery bills if you intend on taking things further?! This will show you in a better light!
Have you contacted the RSPCA over your concerns as if the other horses are in a state this could possibly be a good thing to do?! If you have aleady done so - what was the outcome?
Have you had blood taken from your horse to check for any underlying problems, or are you just pure an simply trying to shift the blame onto others for your own neglegence?
Sorry if this sounds harsh, but I used to run my own yard and know how it feels to have things discussed behind their backs!
Click to expand...

Have you bothered to read the whole thread?

These points have been answered. Why should she pay a livery bill for a horse that was neglected to the point of death?

I also think you'll find that livery yard owners do have a responsibility to the horses on their land:-
Q. b) If any horse is being neglected on a yard who is responsible for its welfare.


A. b) Under the animal welfare act 2007 (code of practice for the welfare of equines) and depending on what type of livery (full-part or DIY) as to the degree of responsibility, however the act requires all yards with some degree of responsibility to provide the horses 5 needs.



The 5 Needs of the Horse.



1. Has a suitable environment to live in. 2. Has a healthy Diet. 3. Is able to behave
normally. 4. Has appropriate company. 5. Is protected from pain, suffering, injury and disease.



Q. c) If a horse needs veterinary treatment on a yard and the owner will not call a vet who is responsible for the animal’s welfare and what should be done.



A.c) Report it to the local authorities,animal health and welfare dept or to horse charities that have welfare
officers, World Horse Welfare, British Horse Society or RSPCA.


I think you'll find that the yard owner was negligent in ensuring either of the above were done.


Q. d) If you keep your horse on a livery yard who should hold the passport.



A.d) The owner can keep the passport providing they can produce it if requested to do so. A photo copy of such could be held at the yard.



Q. e) What action can a livery yard owner take against an owner of a horse being cruelly treated.


A. e) Report to the local authority’s animal health and welfare or report to WHW, BHS or RSPCA. Etc. Taking notes and/or diary with photographic evidence would be advantageous.


ETA:- God, now I'm getting involved repeating again and again! Please have the courteousy to read the whole thread and prevent the poor owner having to go over it all.
 
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concernedyardowner - People who cannot even be bothered to read the thread, or at least the last few pages to find out what has happened really need to keep their uninformed, insensitive and downright mean comments to themselves!
 
I haven't read everything here. But surely how can anyone watch a horse or any animal slowly die and not do anything about it. If this has been covered earlier in this thread i apologise.
 
patchwork puzzle said:
concernedyardowner - People who cannot even be bothered to read the thread, or at least the last few pages to find out what has happened really need to keep their uninformed, insensitive and downright mean comments to themselves!
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Absolutely this , I am also a concerned YO, the OP has done nothing wrong other than to trust the wrong person, if you cannot be bothered to read the whole thread do not feel qualified to pass judgement.
 
Can I say it first please :D


TROLL


First post, calls themselves "concernedyardowner" but say their horses are on livery ??????????

Or perhaps worse than troll, someone involved in this sad story :(
 
My appologies for not reading the last few threads! I am also sorry to hear about the horses death!
However there is such a thing as freedom of speech and I am only voicing my opinion.
My personal opinion is that the HO is only trying to ease their own conscience! Lets wait to see if there been a postmortem done and see what the results are?!
 
concernedyardowner said:
My appologies for not reading the last few threads! I am also sorry to hear about the horses death!
However there is such a thing as freedom of speech and I am only voicing my opinion.
My personal opinion is that the HO is only trying to ease their own conscience! Lets wait to see if there been a postmortem done and see what the results are?!
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Well this forum is bad enough without people joining to voice opinions such as yours, particularly when they can even be bother to read the thread (this one not "the last few threads")

If you are for real, which I doubt, not a good start :(
 
rockysmum said:
Can I say it first please :D


TROLL


First post, calls themselves "concernedyardowner" but say their horses are on livery ??????????

Or perhaps worse than troll, someone involved in this sad story :(
Click to expand...

Had you have completely read my original post you will see that I had said that I used to run my own yard!
I am thankfully not involved in what is a very sad case and that my own horses are well and healthy! I certainly feel for the very sorry for the HO!
 
concernedyardowner said:
My appologies for not reading the last few threads! I am also sorry to hear about the horses death!
However there is such a thing as freedom of speech and I am only voicing my opinion.
My personal opinion is that the HO is only trying to ease their own conscience! Lets wait to see if there been a postmortem done and see what the results are?!
Click to expand...

Why should they need to ease their own conscience, they paid a "trusted friend" to care for the horse, there may well be an underlying cause but it still does not answer why the horse was not seen by a vet or anything done until it was being collected, by then it was all too late.
 
I'm cetainly not on here to cause trouble, but people are very quick to blame YO and others for theeir own failings! I also agree that the yard owner may have had a duty of care for these horses but having said that we do not know all the facts do we?!
It does anger me when people try to shift blame onto others!
 
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