Another fatal dog attack

[Indy]

When I see a horse and there's an alternative track I'll always head off, Bandit's good with horses and I always put him on a lead and stand to the side when one approaches but I find a lot of horses just don't like being on the same bit of track as a dog and get tense so to diffuse any tricky behaviour it just easier to get out the way quickly.

 

[Landcruiser]

https://www.itv.com/news/central/2023-11-14/xl-bully-seized-and-man-arrested-after-dog-killed-and-woman-bitten-on-face?fbclid=IwAR1UupATfEASSmbbvwOGzt9htlPk3qJUgyB3xCy8snefpO9qHutbmLrcXjE

Heartbreaking

 

[skinnydipper]

My little girl, 6, was mauled by pet Bully that ripped half her face to shreds

IT was meant to be a fun day soaking up the last of the summer rays in the back garden. But moments after stepping off her trampoline in her back garden, six-year-old Deborah Dzvene’s life was chan…

www.thesun.co.uk

 

[misst]

Once again a "nice family dog" that sounds as if it was well loved, apparently turned out of the blue. I did see that the weather had been hot that day which I believe can be a trigger in itself.
That poor family they obviously had no idea of the nature of the breed.

 

[splashgirl45]

Saw an XL bully today. They were coming towards myself, OH, and horse, then they had an “Oh, sh1t!” reaction and cut down a different trail. The dog barked at us and I could see them hanging onto it for dear life. Our plan had been to use the trail they’d scuttled down, but nope. We changed our plan and did a different route.

The people were responsible but why have a dog who you feel you have so little control over, even on lead, that you need to leg it when you see a horse.

And why do they just have harnesses on? Even my tiny terriers would pull when in a harness, I only use harnesses when they are pups so I can use a long line , once they are ok with recall harnesses are not used again.. imagine trying to stop a 6 stone dog who has a harness on, by all means have a harness but have something like a choke chain on with a separate lead in case of emergencies

 

[stormox]

And why do they just have harnesses on? Even my tiny terriers would pull when in a harness, I only use harnesses when they are pups so I can use a long line , once they are ok with recall harnesses are not used again.. imagine trying to stop a 6 stone dog who has a harness on, by all means have a harness but have something like a choke chain on with a separate lead in case of emergencies

"Choke chains" are considered inhumane and old fashioned by most dog trainers/behaviouriststhese days.

 

[Clodagh]

"Choke chains" are considered inhumane and old fashioned by most dog trainers/behaviouriststhese days.

But used correctly there is nothing wrong with them. I always used to use them. I use slip leads now which apparently are also cruel.
I’d rather a dog wore something it was controllable in.

 

[stormox]

But used correctly there is nothing wrong with them. I always used to use them. I use slip leads now which apparently are also cruel.
I’d rather a dog wore something it was controllable in.

Maybe. But if a person went to any behaviorist or trainer with their pet dog - chihuahua or xl bully - they would be told to use positive reinforcement to teach loose lead walking.
I don't know any IMDT or qualified trainers that would advocate choke chains, they are considered almost in the same league as prongs and e-collars.

 

[marmalade76]

Maybe. But if a person went to any behaviorist or trainer with their pet dog - chihuahua or xl bully - they would be told to use positive reinforcement to teach loose lead walking.
I don't know any IMDT or qualified trainers that would advocate choke chains, they are considered almost in the same league as prongs and e-collars.

And THAT is one of the reasons we're having so many problems with out of control dogs.

 

[Clodagh]

Maybe. But if a person went to any behaviorist or trainer with their pet dog - chihuahua or xl bully - they would be told to use positive reinforcement to teach loose lead walking.
I don't know any IMDT or qualified trainers that would advocate choke chains, they are considered almost in the same league as prongs and e-collars.

And if I met an XL bullie I’d rather it was in a prong collar. This fluffy ‘oh he must never feel any discomfort or pressure’ is precisely why we are in such a shit storm of badly behaved dogs.
As marmalade says.

 

[splashgirl45]

"Choke chains" are considered inhumane and old fashioned by most dog trainers/behaviouriststhese days.

. That comment made me laugh, if I had a 6 stone bully on a harness I think a choke chain would be a good idea IN an Emergency !!!!! and any aid can be used incorrectly , I’ve seen a man yank a small dog off it’s feet with an ordinary collar, that was cruel but no fault of the collar… these bulky type dogs are immensely strong and choking them is an option if all else fails

 

[splashgirl45]

Exactly, M & C I agree… Maybe only positive for little fluffikins works but a very large dog attempting to kill another dog or person is not going to stop for a treat….

 

[paddy555]

Maybe. But if a person went to any behaviorist or trainer with their pet dog - chihuahua or xl bully - they would be told to use positive reinforcement to teach loose lead walking.
I don't know any IMDT or qualified trainers that would advocate choke chains, they are considered almost in the same league as prongs and e-collars.

I don't understand why a dog with a choke chain on cannot walk on a loose lead?

 

[paddy555]

Exactly, M & C I agree… Maybe only positive for little fluffikins works but a very large dog attempting to kill another dog or person is not going to stop for a treat….

Surely all "furbabies" need constant treats. Perhaps if X bully furbabies had lots more treats when out walking they wouldn't want to eat people.

I can't see any reason why a bully shouldn't have a choke chain and also be waisted leaded back to the owner on a harness. (along with the muzzle) perhaps they would be safer that way. If they take off they will be slowed having to tow the average 10 stone person behind them.

 

[Red-1]

The XL Bully type is still loose around our village. Many, many sightings, and it has reportedly been killing chickens. People who have spotted it say it looks wild and scared.

The local dog lovers are trying to capture it, to no avail.

I am, however, surprised and disappointed that local feeling is that people have an unrealistic downer on the breed due to media storm, rather than the thought that it might actually be dangerous! It is all about saving the creature, whereas I would happily have it PTS.

 

[Cinnamontoast]

But used correctly there is nothing wrong with them. I always used to use them. I use slip leads now which apparently are also cruel.
I’d rather a dog wore something it was controllable in.

We only ever use slip leads. To be fair, I only put them on to cross the lane back to the car and to stop Mitch buggering off at the end (new and exciting development!)

 

[marmalade76]

The XL Bully type is still loose around our village. Many, many sightings, and it has reportedly been killing chickens. People who have spotted it say it looks wild and scared.

The local dog lovers are trying to capture it, to no avail.

I am, however, surprised and disappointed that local feeling is that people have an unrealistic downer on the breed due to media storm, rather than the thought that it might actually be dangerous! It is all about saving the creature, whereas I would happily have it PTS.

If it carries on killing livestock, it will end up shot.

 

[Red-1]

If it carries on killing livestock, it will end up shot.

I do hope so.

It is wild at the moment, scared and dangerous.

It is a worry to go out riding or walking with dogs and children at the moment.

 

[twiggy2]

But used correctly there is nothing wrong with them. I always used to use them. I use slip leads now which apparently are also cruel.
I’d rather a dog wore something it was controllable in.

I agree a dog can wear anything around its neck once trained and come to no harm, the key is the dog needs to be trained, personally I don't like prong collars as I have seen them be the trigger that tips dogs over the edge from frustration to aggression due to the pain they can cause, I also hate that so many people use then to control dogs for field trials especially with the larger setters, just train the dog.

Maybe. But if a person went to any behaviorist or trainer with their pet dog - chihuahua or xl bully - they would be told to use positive reinforcement to teach loose lead walking.
I don't know any IMDT or qualified trainers that would advocate choke chains, they are considered almost in the same league as prongs and e-collars.

IMDT does not view all positive training as appropriate or pleasant for the dog, or they didn't when I did sime of their courses, for them 'poaitive' means you give something and that could be a smack or a treat, 'negative' is removing something so it could be removing something the dog wants or enjoys or removing something the dog finds unpleasant such as a noise it is exposed to.
As an aside not all trainers use positive reinforcement so not all trainers would be against check chains. There are many different types of trainers.

And if I met an XL bullie I’d rather it was in a prong collar. This fluffy ‘oh he must never feel any discomfort or pressure’ is precisely why we are in such a shit storm of badly behaved dogs.
As marmalade says.

I would rather it was muzzled. I have seen prong collars tip frustrated dogs over to redirected aggression due to the sensation/pain and restrction they cause.

 

[Clodagh]

I agree a dog can wear anything around its neck once trained and come to no harm, the key is the dog needs to be trained, personally I don't like prong collars as I have seen them be the trigger that tips dogs over the edge from frustration to aggression due to the pain they can cause, I also hate that so many people use then to control dogs for field trials especially with the larger setters, just train the dog.

IMDT does not view all positive training as appropriate or pleasant for the dog, or they didn't when I did sime of their courses, for them 'poaitive' means you give something and that could be a smack or a treat, 'negative' is removing something so it could be removing something the dog wants or enjoys or removing something the dog finds unpleasant such as a noise it is exposed to.
As an aside not all trainers use positive reinforcement so not all trainers would be against check chains. There are many different types of trainers.

I would rather it was muzzled. I have seen prong collars tip frustrated dogs over to redirected aggression due to the sensation/pain and restrction they cause.

No! Surely prong collars are not allowed in competition? I’m appalled by that actually.
A friend has an XL, she walks him in a prong collar but did go to a man for training. It has revolutionised her walks, she is tiny but now can hold him easily. I do t think they need to be standard fare.

 

[twiggy2]

No! Surely prong collars are not allowed in competition? I’m appalled by that actually.
A friend has an XL, she walks him in a prong collar but did go to a man for training. It has revolutionised her walks, she is tiny but now can hold him easily. I do t think they need to be standard fare.

Yes, far to widely seen for my liking, people I know put a bit of cloth over the collar to hide it so maybe they are not allowed but I don't see people listening

 

[paddy555]

I do hope so.

It is wild at the moment, scared and dangerous.

It is a worry to go out riding or walking with dogs and children at the moment.

our roads are very narrow and winding with very high banks ie we are in a channel with no way out. I wondered the other day about your loose dog and if we met similar in one of the roads. I would be scared.

 

[Clodagh]

Yes, far to widely seen for my liking, people I know put a bit of cloth over the collar to hide it so maybe they are not allowed but I don't see people listening

You see electric collars out shooting sometimes. I can’t get my head round a setter or anything needing a prong collar.
When we had a shoot electric collars were not allowed and the local keeper here on the big shoot won’t have them. (I accept that’s a whole other discussion).

 

[Moobli]

You see electric collars out shooting sometimes. I can’t get my head round a setter or anything needing a prong collar.
When we had a shoot electric collars were not allowed and the local keeper here on the big shoot won’t have them. (I accept that’s a whole other discussion).

I’ve seen electric collars used on a grouse shoot day whose sheep aversion training wasn’t wholly successful.

 

[Clodagh]

I’ve seen electric collars used on a grouse shoot day whose sheep aversion training wasn’t wholly successful.

Do you mean even the electric collars were insufficient?

 

[twiggy2]

You see electric collars out shooting sometimes. I can’t get my head round a setter or anything needing a prong collar.
When we had a shoot electric collars were not allowed and the local keeper here on the big shoot won’t have them. (I accept that’s a whole other discussion).

I have been told its because they pull and get so excited about their run, not are what's wrong qoth training them not to myself, its hardly an unexpected happening.

 

[Moobli]

I can see a prong collar could be very useful for a large powerful breed like the XL bully together with muzzle and a short (strong!) lead as long as the owner has taken the time to condition the dog to wearing the prong. There’s a place for force-free only and there’s a time when something less palatable might actually save a life.

 

[Moobli]

Do you mean even the electric collars were insufficient?

I don’t know what training had been put into place first but the ecollar was on to stop the dog chasing/worrying livestock, so maybe just as a back up.

 

[Clodagh]

I don’t know what training had been put into place first but the ecollar was on to stop the dog chasing/worrying livestock, so maybe just as a back up.

I thought you meant it killed a sheep out shooting even with the collar.
Up on the moor here you work in large flocks of sheep, they usually move away but there’s often a couple tucked up under a bank that pop up as the dog goes over. Tbh I would not take my dogs there if I didn’t trust them. As I don’t 100% trust Ffee I keep her the same side of the bank as me so she’s in sight.
Way off topic!

 

[Moobli]

I thought you meant it killed a sheep out shooting even with the collar.
Up on the moor here you work in large flocks of sheep, they usually move away but there’s often a couple tucked up under a bank that pop up as the dog goes over. Tbh I would not take my dogs there if I didn’t trust them. As I don’t 100% trust Ffee I keep her the same side of the bank as me so she’s in sight.
Way off topic!

Grouse moors work the same way. Our sheep do move away generally but yes, getting way off topic.