Another fatal dog attack

maisie06

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If it did that to one of my spanners it would be wishing a vet had put it down humanley....I went to stop at the local co-op this morning when I spotted an XL on a lead stood by the doorway with the owner barely able to hold it and it was pulling him towards people arriving and leaving - I drove to Tesco instead.
 

maisie06

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The XL Bully type is still loose around our village. Many, many sightings, and it has reportedly been killing chickens. People who have spotted it say it looks wild and scared.

The local dog lovers are trying to capture it, to no avail.

I am, however, surprised and disappointed that local feeling is that people have an unrealistic downer on the breed due to media storm, rather than the thought that it might actually be dangerous! It is all about saving the creature, whereas I would happily have it PTS.
Pity one of the local fox control lamping guys can't pop it off one dark night...
 

Boulty

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I do not think there is anything wrong with having a “back up” option on any dog that is strong enough to overpower the person walking it. It’s surely far kinder to give one effective correction than the constant pressure the dog will feel as it strains against a harness (& far safer for the owner and the public in general as dog less likely to get loose). I don’t personally particularly like prong collars as their design would make them uncomfortable to wear even when not engaged (I guess same argument could be made about a choke chain tbf although probably to a lesser extent & I know some dogs also seem to find haltis aversive but then other dogs are perfectly ok with them). I know the ideal would be for every dog to be able to walk perfectly on a loose lead in all situations but obviously that takes time and dedication to achieve even with a dog without issues and realistically the vast majority just won’t reach that level of training.
 

Widgeon

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Can training actually make a dog with an unpredictable tendency to flip into lethal aggression with no provocation neutralise that switch....I would not be too sure it is possible to extinguish that trait.
That's my concern - I've seen lots of videos recently of very well trained XL bullies, along the lines of "but my dog is so well trained, he's not like the dangerous ones". I see the owners' point, but like you I'm not convinced that training can iron out something I suspect might be a genetic hiccup.
 

Boulty

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Can training actually make a dog with an unpredictable tendency to flip into lethal aggression with no provocation neutralise that switch or will the unpredictable aggression happen no matter what training the dog has had? I would not be too sure it is possible to extinguish that trait.
Ah now that is the million dollar question… in the case of something genetic / some kind of rage syndrome I’d guess the answer is highly likely to be “no”. In the case of a dog who is reactive / has poor frustration tolerance / trigger stacks easily but doesn’t have some inexplicable genetic “switch” then the answer should generally be yes as long as it’s the right training being carried out consistently in the right way over a period of time.
 

limestonelil

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Can training actually make a dog with an unpredictable tendency to flip into lethal aggression with no provocation neutralise that switch or will the unpredictable aggression happen no matter what training the dog has had? I would not be too sure it is possible to extinguish that trait.
In the case of XL bullies, no amount of training can reliably extinguish the trait if the genetic line has it. A previous HHO poster put up a link ages ago which is convincing, absolutely so imo.
 

stormox

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I have read the governments description of an XL bully.I assumed XL stood for Extra Large, but they are saying "over 20 inches" which isn't very big at all. Smaller than a GSD or labrador.....I can see a lot of staffies and crosses being siezed un necessarily.
 
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marmalade76

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I have read the governments description of an XL bully.I assumed XL stood for Extra Large, but they are saying "over 20 inches" which isn't very big at all. Smaller than a GSD or labrador.....I can see a lot of staffies and crosses being siezed un necessarily.

Surely they'll only be seized if they're causing a problem? There appears to be plenty of pit bulls in this country that seem to escape the law, the dog that killed the dog walker turned out to be a pit bull.
 

stormox

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Surely they'll only be seized if they're causing a problem? There appears to be plenty of pit bulls in this country that seem to escape the law, the dog that killed the dog walker turned out to be a pit bull.
It will be illegal to just own one if it isnt registered and complying with all rules. There have been several petitions to free pit bulls seized for no reason and held in kennels.
 

splashgirl45

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If they only use the measurements to decide if it is an XL bully I would be concerned if I owned a staffy or mastiff cross which could measure in.. there should be some advice for people with dogs that could be mistaken for the banned breeds…
 

Cinnamontoast

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If they only use the measurements to decide if it is an XL bully I would be concerned if I owned a staffy or mastiff cross which could measure in.. there should be some advice for people with dogs that could be mistaken for the banned breeds…
A child I teach says his dad is getting a Cane corso. I did wonder why, given the current climate. Apparently he likes big dogs that are ‘guard dogs’. Headdesk moment.
 

Mrs. Jingle

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Even I, a person that loves the Cane Corso would not get one there in the current climate.

That's a breed you really need to know, gain experience with, and take seriously.

I have an acquaintance not very far from me who bought a Dogue de Bordeaux bitch a couple of years back and about a year ago a male Cane Corso. She is proud to announce she is now breeding this 'stunning' cross breed. They should be a sweet easy going family dogs then.:rolleyes:
 

CanteringCarrot

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I have an acquaintance not very far from me who bought a Dogue de Bordeaux bitch a couple of years back and about a year ago a male Cane Corso. She is proud to announce she is now breeding this 'stunning' cross breed. They should be a sweet easy going family dogs then.:rolleyes:

I mean, it's just going to be some Mastiff mix, but yes, such a stunning cross 🙄

I've met some Dogue de Bordeaux before and rode for someone that owned 2 (horses were at her house, as were the dogs) and they were quite lovely, but they're hideous. I just don't like the color, personally!

Kills me that they'll be marketed as sweet easy going family dogs. This is a huge part of the problem.
 

fankino04

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I have an acquaintance not very far from me who bought a Dogue de Bordeaux bitch a couple of years back and about a year ago a male Cane Corso. She is proud to announce she is now breeding this 'stunning' cross breed. They should be a sweet easy going family dogs then.:rolleyes:
And this kind of idiot is why there are so many dangerous dogs around. When I was a kid lots of people had rescue dogs and none of them were an issue with the kids. Breeding dogs wasn't a money making scheme by any Tom dick or Harry who wasn't concerned if the parent dogs were good examples physically and mentally of the breed. Yes there were some idiots still and some accidental matings but on the whole most dogs weren't genetically wired to be "difficult " so the likelihood of that gene being passed on in the accidental or stupid matings was far less.
 

photo_jo

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So register it, and comply with the rules?
But that would indicate they had common sense!
I mean, it's just going to be some Mastiff mix, but yes, such a stunning cross 🙄

I've met some Dogue de Bordeaux before and rode for someone that owned 2 (horses were at her house, as were the dogs) and they were quite lovely, but they're hideous. I just don't like the color, personally!

Kills me that they'll be marketed as sweet easy going family dogs. This is a huge part of the problem.
A friend had one-the loveliest natured dog but hideous!
 

SilverLinings

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I'm not sure how responsible a company is (or the dog owners who buy it) when they sell 'sweet but* psycho' and 'antisocial dog' (not to mention the one saying Rishi Sunak is the bully, not the breed as posted by @paddy555) lead slips.

I understand that people may want a lead slip that states their dog is deaf/blind/anxious or something that asks others not to pat them, but selling a 'sweet but psycho' lead slip is yet again absolving the owner of responsibility ('the dog isn't untrained, he's a psycho'), and making it look acceptable to have an aggressive, poorly controlled dog out in public.

*edited to correct spelling
 
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SilverLinings

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And this kind of idiot is why there are so many dangerous dogs around. When I was a kid lots of people had rescue dogs and none of them were an issue with the kids. Breeding dogs wasn't a money making scheme by any Tom dick or Harry who wasn't concerned if the parent dogs were good examples physically and mentally of the breed. Yes there were some idiots still and some accidental matings but on the whole most dogs weren't genetically wired to be "difficult " so the likelihood of that gene being passed on in the accidental or stupid matings was far less.

The cost of puppies is something I can feel conflicted about (it seems wrong to value a life so little that a puppy can be bought for £50 say), but the massive increase in puppy prices over the last few years has on the whole been nothing but bad for dogs.

People who never would have bothered with the mess, hassle, possible vet fees etc resulting from breeding when the majority of pet puppies weren't selling for a huge amount all seemed to suddenly want to breed from any bitch with a pulse. A lot of 'breeders' appeared to have put no thought into it other than where could they get the cheapest sperm from ('my neighbour's afghan hound still has his testicles so that will be a great cross with my jack russell bitch'), and whether they could create some new breed cross or mutant colour that they could charge a premium for. Very, very few 'pet' breeders seem to have put any thought into the health, conformation and longevity of the puppies they were breeding.

Unfortunately I think the high prices (combined with social media) also drove a swath of fairly disinterested potential owners into buying a dog, because the price made it 'exclusive' and desirable, and they lapped up the sales patter about rare crosses and colours and just thought of all the SM 'likes' they would get with a cute puppy. If puppies were cheap, not marketed as a luxury fashion accessory and sellers stopped talking twaddle about 'rare' colours (and not talking about the genetic mess they were creating) I think a lot of these people wouldn't have bought a puppy, and I expect a lot of dogs currently in shelters have come from owners like this.

You'd think with access to the internet they would have educated themselves beforehand about the amount of work, expense and care a dog needs, and the fact it won't stay a cute puppy forever, but many of them seem to have been totally shocked as soon as reality bit and they discovered dogs need work to get them housetrained/stop them eating the furniture/have recall/etc.

I think the indiscriminate breeders who have churned out puppies (often from breeds with significant health problems such as frenchies, dachshunds and pugs) for large profits are frankly morally bankrupt. They have caused a large amount of suffering by breeding with no care for the health of the puppies (or the bitch), and no care for what numpty owner they sold them to.

IMO XL bullys have proliferated for the same reasons: people breed, want to sell them for high prices so try all the marketing tricks in the book such as 'they are great with children', 'he's a rare colour', and posts on SM looking macho. The added problem with the XLB though is the propensity to go seriously wrong when paired with a novice owner, due to the size, power and temperament of the breed. I expect the number of bites to humans by poorly bred and homed smaller dogs has also increase in the last few years, but the injuries have been far less serious.
 

marmalade76

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The cost of puppies is something I can feel conflicted about (it seems wrong to value a life so little that a puppy can be bought for £50 say), but the massive increase in puppy prices over the last few years has on the whole been nothing but bad for dogs.

People who never would have bothered with the mess, hassle, possible vet fees etc resulting from breeding when the majority of pet puppies weren't selling for a huge amount all seemed to suddenly want to breed from any bitch with a pulse. A lot of 'breeders' appeared to have put no thought into it other than where could they get the cheapest sperm from ('my neighbour's afghan hound still has his testicles so that will be a great cross with my jack russell bitch'), and whether they could create some new breed cross or mutant colour that they could charge a premium for. Very, very few 'pet' breeders seem to have put any thought into the health, conformation and longevity of the puppies they were breeding.

Unfortunately I think the high prices (combined with social media) also drove a swath of fairly disinterested potential owners into buying a dog, because the price made it 'exclusive' and desirable, and they lapped up the sales patter about rare crosses and colours and just thought of all the SM 'likes' they would get with a cute puppy. If puppies were cheap, not marketed as a luxury fashion accessory and sellers stopped talking twaddle about 'rare' colours (and not talking about the genetic mess they were creating) I think a lot of these people wouldn't have bought a puppy, and I expect a lot of dogs currently in shelters have come from owners like this.

You'd think with access to the internet they would have educated themselves beforehand about the amount of work, expense and care a dog needs, and the fact it won't stay a cute puppy forever, but many of them seem to have been totally shocked as soon as reality bit and they discovered dogs need work to get them housetrained/stop them eating the furniture/have recall/etc.

I think the indiscriminate breeders who have churned out puppies (often from breeds with significant health problems such as frenchies, dachshunds and pugs) for large profits are frankly morally bankrupt. They have caused a large amount of suffering by breeding with no care for the health of the puppies (or the bitch), and no care for what numpty owner they sold them to.

IMO XL bullys have proliferated for the same reasons: people breed, want to sell them for high prices so try all the marketing tricks in the book such as 'they are great with children', 'he's a rare colour', and posts on SM looking macho. The added problem with the XLB though is the propensity to go seriously wrong when paired with a novice owner, due to the size, power and temperament of the breed. I expect the number of bites to humans by poorly bred and homed smaller dogs has also increase in the last few years, but the injuries have been far less serious.

I think the ridiculous prices are the reason dog thefts shot up, I don't remember ever hearing about dogs being stolen a few years ago.
 

splashgirl45

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It’s very revealing that the main type of dog shown with babies and very young children is the XL bully type and occasionally a husky. I don’t recall seeing lurchers, labradors or poodle crosses pictures with babies. That shows the stupid mentality of many people who have this type of dog, they have bought into the fairy tale that they are good family pets and let the dogs get too close to the children … it should be I made much more difficult for anyone to get a dog especially a large dog with the potential to kill an adult
 
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