Another fatal dog attack

[inandout]

Pits have more in common with boxers than mastiffs tbh, boxers evoved from bullenbeisser which were hunting dogs. Pits were the us version of bullenbeissers as a hog hunting dog.

 

[Cortez]

Yes they are fascinating. The drives and behavious are quite different to many working breeds but the role is different so makes sense. They have as much variation in working style as any type of dog eg some will bark mostly and even drive/guide the sheep away from the threat other breeds will actively seek out the threat and try and kill it. I find there use in predator reintroduction programes especially interesting. I believe they have been used to some success in cheetah conservation in namibia.


Im simply using them as a comparision if i was on a farming page I wud use cattle as the example. The stats of cattle based deaths r highther than horses and dogs yet it cud be argued the average person has even less contact with cattle than horses.

Killer Cows

Keeping our footpaths safe for walkers

killercows.co.uk

You really are not very good at this rational debating thing, are you? So I'm going to leave you to your wild fighting-in-the-dark style of discourse. It's easy pickings to refute the majority of your statements, and your conclusions are frankly ludicrous.

 

[marmalade76]

It would be the choice of the owner not to walk their dog if they won't walk it without a muzzle.
.

And there's plenty of secure dog parks available for hire

 

[MurphysMinder]

The kimbo stuff is largely inflated by the media. Many dogs are the result of close line breeding (brother sister mating) occasionally popular sire syndrone results in a particular behaviour pattern appearing in a breed, there was a popular gsd stud in the 80s that produced very guardy pups that were too much for most owners. It was then bred away from. Even if Kimbo did produce a line of difficult dogs he is not a influencial dog in uk xl lines. In truth many xls are xl crosses as that was cheaper and you still got big money for pups.

What GSd stud dog are you referring to ?

 

[twiggy2]

Yes xls have had some questionabe breeding practises but in reality what pedigree dog hasnt there is lots of inbreed/line breeding in many breeds ad even working breeds and crosses breeds, ive met working lurchers and terriers that were heavily line bred to a specific dog.

Lots of people get bitten by working terriers and historically working lurcher that bit didn't live very long after. They have been bred to work and any injuries were stitched up by whoever was avaliable to do it, bad tempered lurcher were not bred from, more than one good old fashioned lurcher men said to me about gsd lurcher 'what would anyone want one of those for? It's fast and bites'

 

[inandout]

And there's plenty of secure dog parks available for hire

If you drive and have the money to hire one. People may get a dog when there health and finances allows them to manage it in a certain way. Then things change and they cant do that shud they get rid of the dog or shud its quality of life be comprimised which may contribute to behaviour problems that result in aggressive behaviour. Shud elderly people or disabled people or people below a certain income be forbidden from owning a dog (often there main pleasure in life) so someone feels more comfortable on a walk?

Lots of people get bitten by working terriers and historically working lurcher that bit didn't live very long after. They have been bred to work and any injuries were stitched up by whoever was avaliable to do it, bad tempered lurcher were not bred from, more than one good old fashioned lurcher men said to me about gsd lurcher 'what would anyone want one of those for? It's fast and bites'

Supposedly fighting dogs were culled if they redirected on a person. In reality a good one wud be forgiven (pit lurcher terrier) mailinois lurchers have replaced gsd lurchers and of course many many lurchers have bull in them. Probably harder to find a none bull lurcher now than one with bull.

 

[marmalade76]

If you drive and have the money to hire one. People may get a dog when there health and finances allows them to manage it in a certain way. Then things change and they cant do that shud they get rid of the dog or shud its quality of life be comprimised which may contribute to behaviour problems that result in aggressive behaviour. Shud elderly people or disabled people or people below a certain income be forbidden from owning a dog (often there main pleasure in life) so someone feels more comfortable on a walk?


Supposedly fighting dogs were culled if they redirected on a person. In reality a good one wud be forgiven (pit lurcher terrier) mailinois lurchers have replaced gsd lurchers and of course many many lurchers have bull in them. Probably harder to find a none bull lurcher now than one with bull.

If I couldn't afford to properly accommodate my horse I would have to sell or rehome her, why should it be any different for dogs? Plenty of elderly and disabled people drive, there's certainly enough round here, blocking the roads with their inconsiderate parking. Did you know they can even get free cars?

 

[ycbm]

Shud elderly people or disabled people or people below a certain income be forbidden from owning a dog (often there main pleasure in life) so someone feels more comfortable on a walk?

Nobody would be prevented from owning a dog, only from not walking a very large and potentially dangerous one in public without a muzzle.
.

 

[skinnydipper]

Nobody would be prevented from owning a dog, only from not walking a very large and potentially dangerous one in public without a muzzle.
.

Who decides if a large dog is potentially dangerous or are you saying all large dogs are potentially dangerous?


ETA and when you say large breeds, which breeds, how large?

 

[Errin Paddywack]

I assume from their posts that 'inandout' is a bully owner.

 

[MurphysMinder]

If you drive and have the money to hire one. People may get a dog when there health and finances allows them to manage it in a certain way. Then things change and they cant do that shud they get rid of the dog or shud its quality of life be comprimised which may contribute to behaviour problems that result in aggressive behaviour. Shud elderly people or disabled people or people below a certain income be forbidden from owning a dog (often there main pleasure in life) so someone feels more comfortable on a walk?

As someone who is well on the way to being elderly, I can say that I thought long and hard before getting my latest GSD, who will probably be my last, to ensure I was capable of looking after her. If anything changes and I find I can't give her the attention she needs then I would ask for help, but I don't believe a dog of sound temperament would become aggressive with less exercise . Also dogs don't necessarily have to have long off lead walk to enjoy a good quality of life, my girl loves scent work which leaves her more tired than most walks.
Also, @inandout could you answer my question re the GSD stud dog please.

 

[ycbm]

Who decides if a large dog is potentially dangerous or are you saying all large dogs are potentially dangerous?


ETA and when you say large breeds, which breeds, how large?

Why do I have to keep repeating myself?

If it's actually impossible to frame a law which will identify the truly dangerous dogs then all dogs would need to be dealt with the same way based on size and weight criteria.

Maybe we should have a blanket rule for all dogs and breed societies able to apply for exemption if they can prove their breed is not of above average risk of maiming and killing humans.
.

 

[ycbm]

I assume from their posts that 'inandout' is a bully owner.

I can't think what gives you that idea

I'm only here this morning because I'm too afraid to go to the stables in case one of the 250 horses there attacks me.
.

 

[Smitty]

Sheffield dog attack: Man arrested and two dogs destroyed

Police are called to a report of dogs on the loose in Sheffield on Sunday.

www.bbc.co.uk

And 5 days later

Man arrested and two dogs seized after attack in Sheffield city centre closed street

Supertram services and buses through the area had ceased during the police response, but are now running.

www.thestar.co.uk

 

[skinnydipper]

Why do I have to keep repeating myself?

I must have missed your post when you said which breeds you would class as large/the size of dog.

Would you be good enough to post that info again, please. Thank you.

 

[CorvusCorax]

Also, @inandout could you answer my question re the GSD stud dog please.

Also interested

 

[ycbm]

I must have missed your post when you said which breeds you would class as large/the size of dog.

Would you be good enough to post that info again, please. Thank you.

That isn't for me, especially as a non dog owner, to define. That would be for the law to do.
.

 

[tristars]

Except you have removed the choice from them to walk there under control none aggressive dog in the way they wish cause it makes you feel more comfortable. You may say them walking the dog how they wish interfers with you use of public space but all use of pulic space involves comprimise
Once again that can easily be applied to horses. Horses dont bite of course (generally) but this removes the ability to muzzle them to prevent incidents. In essence why shud horses be in public as they can bolt/kick and the rider/handler cannot stop them.

probably because horses do not head straight for people and rip lumps out of them with their great big teeth, pin them to the floor and keep going til they are dead

 

[skinnydipper]

That isn't for me, especially as a non dog owner, to define. That would be for the law to do.
.

It isn't the law that is suggesting all large dogs should be muzzled when out. It's you.

So what breeds and what size do you feel should be muzzled?

 

[ycbm]

It isn't the law that is suggesting all large dogs should be muzzled when out. It's you.

So what breeds and what size do you feel should be muzzled?

It is many, many people including me suggesting large dogs should be muzzled in public. I am not arrogant enough to believe that I either can or should write that law.

Can we stop this nonsense level of "debate" please?
.

 

[skinnydipper]

It is many, many people including me suggesting large dogs should be muzzled in public. I am not arrogant enough to believe that I either can or should write that law.

Can we stop this nonsense level of "debate" please?
.

It doesn't need to be a 'debate'. Answering my question would do just fine.

 

[ycbm]

It doesn't need to be a 'debate'. Answering my question would do just fine.

It's a debate you're in whether you like it that word or not.

I cannot answer your question what the law should say, because its a question for dog experts, of which I am certainly not one. Your continued refusal to accept that answer and insistence that I say more is beginning to feel very like being bullied. Please stop.
.

 

[skinnydipper]

It's a debate you're in whether you like it that word or not.

I cannot answer your question what the law should say, because its a question for dog experts, of which I am certainly not one. Your continued refusal to accept that answer and insistence that I say more is beginning to feel very like being bullied. Please stop.
.

So we've gone from debate to accusations of bullying. Noted.

 

[ycbm]

So we've gone from debate to accusations of bullying. Noted.

I have told you what your posts are beginning to feel like from my end.

And now you have ignored that too and continue to attack.

Please stop.
.

 

[skinnydipper]

I have told you what your posts are beginning to feel like from my end.

And now you have ignored that too and continue to attack.

Please stop.
.

That was my last word on the subject. It is you who is now continuing this whatever you want to call it. So please cease.

 

[tristars]

It isn't the law that is suggesting all large dogs should be muzzled when out. It's you.

So what breeds and what size do you feel should be muzzled?

i would be very happy to muzzle my 4 inch j t r, if all other dogs were muzzled, in the hope it would prevent other dogs from running up to him and starting a fight or attacking him or myself, because it works two ways

ALL dogs until it sinks in finally, too many owners let their uncontrolled critters run up to everyone and their dogs, small dogs are very vulnerable to attack, so all dogs any size

 

[skinnydipper]

i would be very happy to muzzle my 4 inch j t r, if all other dogs were muzzled, in the hope it would prevent other dogs from running up to him and starting a fight or attacking him or myself, because it works two ways

ALL dogs until it sinks in finally, too many owners let their uncontrolled critters run up to everyone and their dogs, small dogs are very vulnerable to attack, so all dogs any size

What breed is a j t r? Do you mean JRT?

 

[tristars]

What breed is a j t r?

sorry jrt

 

[I'm Dun]

Except you have removed the choice from them to walk there under control none aggressive dog in the way they wish cause it makes you feel more comfortable. You may say them walking the dog how they wish interfers with you use of public space but all use of pulic space involves comprimise
Once again that can easily be applied to horses. Horses dont bite of course (generally) but this removes the ability to muzzle them to prevent incidents. In essence why shud horses be in public as they can bolt/kick and the rider/handler cannot stop them.

My dogs are two small super friendly, easy going, well socialised whippets. I can take them anywhere and do anything with them. Neither would bite a person even if someone started beating them. The youngest has a high prey drive and is hunting and killing small animals when off the lead. Its just who he is. I am going to do things to exercise his prey drive, flirt poling, lure racing and controlled hunting sessions with experienced people helping me. And the rest of the time he will be muzzled. Hes not going to die, in face he wont even be miserable because its being introduced slowly and carefully as a positive thing.

I've been very lucky with my other dogs and not needed to do this. But you have a working bred dog sooner or later you will get one with a ton of drive and it will need to be managed. I dont want to muzzle them. Its a faff and I feel a bit sad about it. But tough. The tiny, tiny, tiny risk that predatory drift kicks in and he hurts someones small dog or cat, means I need to take precautions.

As you said, using public space is a compromise. This is mine.

 

[skinnydipper]

i would be very happy to muzzle my 4 inch j t r, if all other dogs were muzzled, in the hope it would prevent other dogs from running up to him and starting a fight or attacking him or myself, because it works two ways

ALL dogs until it sinks in finally, too many owners let their uncontrolled critters run up to everyone and their dogs, small dogs are very vulnerable to attack, so all dogs any size

In all the years and all the many miles I have walked in areas popular with dog walkers I have never felt threated, been threatened or attacked by dogs.

Any problems I have experienced have been dog on dog with nuisance or aggressive dogs bothering or attacking mine.