Another fatal dog attack

[Smitty]

I used to think that lurchers were the most abused breed and some horrific treatment seems to be meted out to them, but bull breeds appear to be catching up in the neglect/violence treatment. It's so very hard to comprehend some of the abuse they suffer.

 

[CorvusCorax]

Scramblers, cars, dogs, cash seized in garda operation

Gardaí in Ballymun have seized 17 scramblers, four quad bikes and a motorbike as part of an operation targeting dangerous driving, drug dealing and anti-social activity in north Dublin city.

www.rte.ie

'The dogs seized in Ballymun today were being let out of the house and had attacked and killed several other dogs which were family pets in the area. The tenant in the house was found to be no longer living there and the four people present who owned the dogs were evicted and the house repossessed'

 

[4Hoofed]

So that brings us to That must be a concern for you.

To be honest to me not so much. Most of his outside time is at the yard, he’s well trained. I don’t let him play with dogs I don’t know (well let’s face it owners I don’t know ) I’ve checked the DEFRA site and he does not match the characteristics they are looking for, and we own our home so don’t have council landlords etc to worry about. But a lot of people not luckily enough to be in our position are panicking.

Nothing works unless it is enforced, in any sphere.

I agree whole heartedly, but that’s why I also think the XL ban will also not target honestly the scrotes who indiscriminately breed often aiming for size and aggression. I didn’t mean to revisit licenses if it’s been done to death. But it’s the same as well, as the delights of society won’t obey this law, they won’t pay any registration, castrate, stop breeding and this I strongly suspect in many cases will be the least serious crimes they are committing and the police struggle To enforce those laws too. ‍♀


It’s just extremely sad for a lot of families and dogs. And there is incredible amount of bad advice out there. People with dogs who aren’t XLs being told to register their dogs with a few similarities, others advising people not to register at all, people being told to insure/register them at vets as different breeds etc. it’s going to lead to lots of upset people down the line.

 

[SilverLinings]

Man seriously injured as 'XL bully' dog savages him in street

Police and family members are appealing for information after the attack

www.cornwalllive.com

Owner did a runner . Never mind, I expect he'll register it and muzzle, insure, neuter, etc etc

I know I posted something similar some pages back, but the post above raises the issue again- IMO the owner of any dog that injures or kills a human should be held criminally responsible, with a punishment level approaching that which they would receive if they committed GBH/ABH or manslaughter themselves (but less than that). If the dog was known to have previously behaved aggressively and the owner didn't take precautions (muzzling etc) then the owner is negligent and responsible for any later injury or death. No evidence of previous aggression in the dog should reduce the sentence*. Fleeing the scene should increase the punishment (jail term etc) substantially.

Changing the law so that injury to an animal is no longer seen as just damage to property would also clamp down on some of the owners who seem fairly relaxed about their dogs' attacking other people's pets and livestock.

As crimes such as shoplifting and burglary frequently go uninvestigated by the police these days I doubt, however, that there would be the capacity/desire to pursue any of the suggestions made on this thread. As @Cortez has pointed out, laws and rules are worth nothing unless they are (reliably and frequently) enforced.

*I realise good character might be hard to prove, but an absence of previous complaints about the dog would be a start. In a large number of the reported attacks by dogs (on both humans and other dogs) it is stated that they had previously displayed aggression, there had been reports to the police/dog warden/council, and/or there was CCTV of the dog behaving aggressively in public.

 

[skinnydipper]

Woman in hospital after attack by XL bully type dog

A 77-year-old woman is being treated for injuries.

news.stv.tv

 

[SilverLinings]

Woman in hospital after attack by XL bully type dog

A 77-year-old woman is being treated for injuries.

news.stv.tv

It's good to read that the dog has been seized and the police are looking into it, especially as the attack happened out in public.

 

[SilverLinings]

Article on BBC News today about XLBs being rehomed in Scotland ahead of the ban:

Scots taking in XL Bullies as England cracks down

Five-month-old Buddy has just arrived after his owner in Liverpool decided to give him up.

www.bbc.co.uk

I am a bit fed up with all the cries about these poor dogs having no home because of the ban, the ban isn't forcing owners to give their dogs up, in many cases it is owners choosing to dump their dogs because they don't want to/can't be bothered to comply with the rules.

The only legitimate circumstance that I can see would force an owner to give up their XLB (other than the dog displaying dangerous behaviour, which would call for PTS rather than re-homing) is in cases where the owner's landlord doesn't allow banned breeds to be kept on the property. This is the first article I've read that mentions that, and I'm afraid I still suspect that this is only responsible for the minority of XLBs looking for new homes.

I do worry that some dogs may be being rehomed because the current owners have concerns about the dogs behaviour (and the press around the ban has made them aware of how bad an attack could be), but that this isn't being mentioned to the new owner. Humans find it very easy to convince themselves that everything will be ok, and I think people might say to themselves that although they are scared of their dog it has never actually harmed a person (so far) so it will probably be ok in a new home, plus rehoming is 'easier' (and cheaper) for many than PTS.*

It looks as though Scotland hasn't actually decided yet whether or not to implement a ban, so I hope those rehoming XLBs are prepared to keep them if they also end up living in an area where the breed is banned.


*I was aggressively attacked and bitten on the face 20yrs ago by a large rescue dog (not a bully/bully-type) owned by a friend. Nothing was known by the rescue about his background other than that he appeared to be quite nervous. The attack was unprovoked and without apparent warning, and has made me wary of large dogs (who can easily overpower an adult human, and can reach a standing adult's head/neck) with an unknown history.

 

[MissTyc]

Local "breeder" is openly posting on Facebook that her first litter of XL x Microbullies have been born and ready to reserve for the new year. Apparently, they will be "just small enough" to not require registration but otherwise exactly like an XL. £3,500 to reserve a puppy now.

People are just the worst. (her dogs have regularly escaped and caused trouble, thankfully never attacked a human -yet- as tend to go for dogs. All female puppies are openly sold with a breeding contract which I'd never even heard of before stumbling across her pages, but apparently means you can't spay your dog and need to let the original breeder breed from it once before spaying?)

 

[skinnydipper]

is in cases where the owner's landlord doesn't allow banned breeds to be kept on the property

There are local authorities/housing associations/landlords who will accept tenants with a banned breed provided it has an exemption certificate.

I saw one case where the local authority have refused permission for an XL but the owners didn't have permission to keep a dog on the property in the first place, regardless of breed.

There is a now a fb xl bully transport group.

 

[twiggy2]

There are local authorities/housing associations/landlords who will accept tenants with a banned breed provided it has an exemption certificate.

I saw one case where the local authority have refused permission for an XL but the owners didn't have permission to keep a dog on the property in the first place, regardless of breed.

There is a now a fb xl bully transport group.

Honestly finding housing with a dog that is not a banned breed was nigh on impossible for me when I was renting, I ended up putting kennels in the garden with a heat lamp for the dogs and lying to the landlord, I tried offering bigger deposits, my dogs had their good citizens gold and I was a pet dog trainer with 2 small dogs.
I really tough finding housing when you have pets.

 

[skinnydipper]

Honestly finding housing with a dog that is not a banned breed was nigh on impossible for me when I was renting, I ended up putting kennels in the garden with a heat lamp for the dogs and lying to the landlord, I tried offering bigger deposits, my dogs had their good citizens gold and I was a pet dog trainer with 2 small dogs.
I really tough finding housing when you have pets.

This could be where people are coming unstuck, renting without being honest about pet ownership.

My niece rented 4 homes over the years before buying her own home. She looked for landlords who would accept pets, there was less choice but she wouldn't have moved somewhere which wouldn't accept her dog.

 

[conniegirl]

This could be where people are coming unstuck, renting without being honest about pet ownership.

My niece rented 4 homes over the years before buying her own home. She looked for landlords who would accept pets, there was less choice but she wouldn't have moved somewhere which wouldn't accept her dog.

We rented with 2 dogs. Never had a problem with it.

 

[skinnydipper]

Just checked our local authority website. Tenants with an XL bully who have previously been granted permission to have a pet in their home will need to provide a copy of the Certificate of Exemption.

 

[splashgirl45]

I wonder how many XL bully owners in rented property haven’t let their landlord know that they have a dog, let alone an XL bully. If a law came out that my dogs had to be registered , muzzled and on leads, I wouldn’t be happy but would comply and would rent a dog field regularly so mine could have an off leash run, there is no way I would have them put down or rehome them. It shows what type of people many of these owners are.

 

[Annette4]

Local "breeder" is openly posting on Facebook that her first litter of XL x Microbullies have been born and ready to reserve for the new year. Apparently, they will be "just small enough" to not require registration but otherwise exactly like an XL. £3,500 to reserve a puppy now.

People are just the worst. (her dogs have regularly escaped and caused trouble, thankfully never attacked a human -yet- as tend to go for dogs. All female puppies are openly sold with a breeding contract which I'd never even heard of before stumbling across her pages, but apparently means you can't spay your dog and need to let the original breeder breed from it once before spaying?)

I know of a sports breeder who pumps out several litters a year and has the same clause in a lot of her contracts

 

[rabatsa]

If I ever got a dog with a breeding clause in the contract I would get it spayed and let the breeder know it had to be done on health grounds. Like with horses once ownership has been transferred the new owner can do whatever they wish.

 

[Moobli]

This could be where people are coming unstuck, renting without being honest about pet ownership.

My niece rented 4 homes over the years before buying her own home. She looked for landlords who would accept pets, there was less choice but she wouldn't have moved somewhere which wouldn't accept her dog.

I had to look long and hard to find properties that would accept dogs when I rented (20 years ago) but I wouldn’t have dared lie about it. We would have been out on our ear if we were found out and I’d never have risked our security.
I’m sure there was a new Law brought in recently to stop pet owners being discriminated against in rented accommodation - but of course renting with a banned breed is a different matter again.

 

[twiggy2]

This could be where people are coming unstuck, renting without being honest about pet ownership.

My niece rented 4 homes over the years before buying her own home. She looked for landlords who would accept pets, there was less choice but she wouldn't have moved somewhere which wouldn't accept her dog.

Not a lot of choice when your being made homeless with 2 kids and 2 dogs.
What are people expected to do?
Every landlord was complimentary when they came and did the first 6 monthly House check and then let the dogs come in the house.

 

[skinnydipper]

Perhaps we should get back to discussing banned breeds and housing providers.

There is a list on fb of housing providers who will allow exempt XL bullies to remain in their property, the list is being updated as they get information from owners.

https://www.facebook.com/SaveOurSeizedDogs/posts/pfbid02rFmrw3d66acBa1qE2JfeoarBHK6jme7tuDyxHsTk5Ng4QEqMaCXum9Bqo9TAr8DNl

 

[Errin Paddywack]

I know of a sports breeder who pumps out several litters a year and has the same clause in a lot of her contracts

Agility by any chance?

 

[stormox]

Honestly finding housing with a dog that is not a banned breed was nigh on impossible for me when I was renting, I ended up putting kennels in the garden with a heat lamp for the dogs and lying to the landlord, I tried offering bigger deposits, my dogs had their good citizens gold and I was a pet dog trainer with 2 small dogs.
I really tough finding housing when you have pets.

I believe in the UK there's laws now that say having a pet isn't a valid reason for a landlord not to rent to you.

 

[Clodagh]

I believe in the UK there's laws now that say having a pet isn't a valid reason for a landlord not to rent to you.

But if 30 people apply and 29 don’t have pets?

 

[Cinnamontoast]

I believe in the UK there's laws now that say having a pet isn't a valid reason for a landlord not to rent to you.

True but you usually have a choice as a landlord so could reject an applicant with a dog.

 

[Jenko109]

Exactly.

I do not rent out property, however I know from keeping dogs in my own home that they make a mess! My cream walls are not so cream. My wood flooring is scratched in places from the dogs pinging off the sofa, making the sofa drag across the floor. My little acer tree no longer has limbs!

 

[twiggy2]

Exactly what?
I repainted and shampooed the carpets when I left my last house as it was all new when I moved in and they new I had dogs

 

[Jenko109]

Exactly what?
I repainted and shampooed the carpets when I left my last house as it was all new when I moved in and they new I had dogs

I'm sure my post is already clear?

Exactly why some landlords are reluctant to accept dogs. Dogs make a mess.

I imagine many feel the same way about children too.

 

[asmp]

In the Telegraph today

 

[Jenko109]

XL bully to be destroyed after attacking owner while he was having sex

An order was made for the dog to be destroyed, but not for 28 days pending any appeals.

www.google.com

Shame more of them havent tried stopping their owners procreating

 

[misst]

We are landlords and have rented to dog owners and have dogs ourselves. But, it does depend on the owner and we ask for a bigger deposit to cover any extra damage. Our dogs have caused minor damage in our own homes over the years, and we have not had a problem in our rental properties with damage, our tenants are long term and we don;t have problems with rental payment, damage or complaints. I would hesitate to accept large breed dogs as the flats aren't suitable for them in my opinion.

I have a friend with 3 boys who were teenagers and a large GSD. Her property was a bit of a wreck after 4 years of them living there. The dog had chewed some carpet and the three boys and the dog definitely caused more wear and and tear in terms of dirty paintwork, chipped staircases, dints and dents in walls etc. than I would have expected. She was not happy at her deposit being kept back as she felt it was normal wear and tear, I felt that if it was my property I would also have kept the deposit to cover repairs. That landlord may well be put off having another dog in the house.

 

[Clodagh]

XL bully to be destroyed after attacking owner while he was having sex

An order was made for the dog to be destroyed, but not for 28 days pending any appeals.

www.google.com

Shame more of them havent tried stopping their owners procreating

First time me and OH were… intimate… my kelpie, who used to sleep under the bed, jumped up and bit him on the leg.
We kept her, she didn’t draw blood and was only expressing her opinion.