Another fatal dog attack

[CanteringCarrot]

Sometimes I imagine having to explain things, usually societal things, to an "alien" and this is somewhat inspired by a cartoon that I'm familiar with.

On the topic of animal shelters:

"Oh, that's lovely that they have shelters for animals that don't have homes due unfortunate circumstances"

"The whole reason that shelters are needed is because people breed too many animals, create terrible homes for them, abandon them, treat animals like disposable objects, and the people are just generally irresponsible."

"Oh."




*I do know that sometimes animals end up homeless due to just pure sh*tty luck such as their owner(s) passing away, natural disasters, and other reasons. Shelters are necessary, but the main reasons that they're populated are rather unsavory.

 

[oldandgold]

If I owned one of these dogs, I wouldn't be putting it into this situation.

My first thought was let them do it and await for the fallout when something happens, cannot believe these people.

 

[SilverLinings]

Those screenshots must just be a tiny example of the number of dogs like this. Once again it seems they were "fine" when younger but not now. The one that says her dog shows dominance by standing over her and her child and growling at her other dogs - my god how much more warning does she need. That dog is so obviously a potential killer for a small child. How long will she wait for someone to take it off her hands. Just man up and PTS for gods sake.

I just don't understand why so many adults these days seem to be incapable of taking responsibility. If you know your large, powerful dog shows aggression, is dominant and has previously killed another pet/attacked a dog/bitten a person then you are responsible for making sure it doesn't go on to seriously harm someone in the future. That means keeping it and making sure it is trained well and muzzled in public (and not allowed around children in private), rehoming to someone you know VERY well who has lots of relevant experience and will keep the dog muzzled (and most people don't have a relative or close friend like this), or PTS.

Advertising the dog on the internet and letting it go to some random person who either wants to 'rescue all the persecuted fluffy furbabies' or who is attracted to the dog because of it's aggression is NOT a responsible, grown up thing to do. There will be a few good and responsible re-homers, but I expect they will be in the minority. If one of these dogs goes on to kill someone in their new home then I'm sure these people will think it has nothing to do with them, but it does as they could have prevented it.

I hope that the XLB problem was largely a product of covid, and that many of these owners won't go on to buy another large breed. Reading between the lines of many of the rehoming adverts I think (hope) many of those giving up their XLBs were already getting bored/fed up with dog ownership and the costs and effort involved, so hopefully it has put them off dogs altogether. The lack of furlough, boredom and the cost of living crisis will hopefully all conspire against another potentially difficult breed taking the place of the XLB in the UK. I'm sure it will happen again at some point in the future, but hopefully not for some time to come.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

I just don't understand why so many adults these days seem to be incapable of taking responsibility.

Because society promotes this.

 

[gunnergundog]

Hmmm.....putting a large number of XL bullies that don't know each other, presumably of mixed sex, in an enclosed area as a last hurrah....what could POSSIBLY go wrong?
It's a crazy crazy world that I seem to live in nowadays.

 

[Smitty]

Dog attack victims and campaigners who back XL bully ban say they face abuse

Incoming law restricting the breed in England and Wales has led to ‘weird culture war’, its supporters claim

www.theguardian.com

Awful to think people are having to move home because they have spoken in favour of BSL.

 

[TheOldTrout]

Dog attack victims and campaigners who back XL bully ban say they face abuse

Incoming law restricting the breed in England and Wales has led to ‘weird culture war’, its supporters claim

www.theguardian.com

Awful to think people are having to move home because they have spoken in favour of BSL.

Says something about people who own xl bullies!

 

[cauda equina]

It's not just XLB owners though
From the article:

Treolar said “a weird culture war” had broken out between those who campaign for dangerous dogs legislation and a “weird alliance” of animal welfare groups, such as the RSPCA, pro-hunting groups and individuals who want dangerous dogs as a status pet.

It seems a very dubious thing for organisations like the RSPCA to get mixed up in

eta
And I wonder which 'pro-hunting groups' are involved

 

[Quigleyandme]

The world is increasingly a festering cess pit of entitlement and hate.

 

[Jenko109]

Doesn't surprise me.

Those who own the XL bully are often as prone to violent outbursts as their animals.

 

[SilverLinings]

"XL Bullies bought cheaply to claim euthanising cash"

An article claiming this is in today's Times. Apparently Pets4homes were concerned that 'rogue dog owners' were doing this, and XLBs were being advertised for 'as little as £10'. The website has now introduced a rule that they cannot be sold on the site for less than £200, although this clearly wouldn't stop them being sold for £10 elsewhere. Presumably the new owner would need to provide evidence that the dog was PTS so I'm not sure how they could claim the £200 government compensation and make a profit?

I presume this is either Pets4homes and/or the Times being hysterical, or can someone explain how this scam could actually work?

 

[Cortez]

"XL Bullies bought cheaply to claim euthanising cash"

An article claiming this is in today's Times. Apparently Pets4homes were concerned that 'rogue dog owners' were doing this, and XLBs were being advertised for 'as little as £10'. The website has now introduced a rule that they cannot be sold on the site for less than £200, although this clearly wouldn't stop them being sold for £10 elsewhere. Presumably the new owner would need to provide evidence that the dog was PTS so I'm not sure how they could claim the £200 government compensation and make a profit?

I presume this is either Pets4homes and/or the Times being hysterical, or can someone explain how this scam could actually work?

Well it couldn't; the £200 is a refund on the cost of euthanasia and I believe either goes directly to the vet or is paid after proof of same. Someone with the regs in front of them (or with a better grasp than I) please correct me if I've got it assbackwards.....

 

[MissTyc]

"XL Bullies bought cheaply to claim euthanising cash"

An article claiming this is in today's Times. Apparently Pets4homes were concerned that 'rogue dog owners' were doing this, and XLBs were being advertised for 'as little as £10'. The website has now introduced a rule that they cannot be sold on the site for less than £200, although this clearly wouldn't stop them being sold for £10 elsewhere. Presumably the new owner would need to provide evidence that the dog was PTS so I'm not sure how they could claim the £200 government compensation and make a profit?

I presume this is either Pets4homes and/or the Times being hysterical, or can someone explain how this scam could actually work?

If you have a vet that will do it for less than £200, do you still get £200?

ETA: Share the cash with a tame vet?

I mean none of it seems worth it.

 

[SilverLinings]

Well it couldn't; the £200 is a refund on the cost of euthanasia and I believe either goes directly to the vet or is paid after proof of same. Someone with the regs in front of them (or with a better grasp than I) please correct me if I've got it assbackwards.....

Well that's exactly what I thought. Presumably you need to show the gov't some proof that you PTS the dog, and I can't imagine vets are going to issue false/inflated invoices, and I assume the gov't expects you to use a vet to do the deed (not just say 'my mate shot it, can I have £200 please').

 

[SilverLinings]

One thing in the article I thought interesting is that Pets4homes says there is still a market for XLBs, they are still selling and with at least two serious enquires made about each advertised dog.

 

[blackcob]

The payment goes directly to the owner, who first has to register with Defra on the Rural Payments system and get a business identifier number, so I can only assume that anyone attempting this in any significant numbers is going to be spotted via that process and the circumstances scrutinised.

The cost of cremation/disposal is likely to exceed £200 for dogs 40kg+ at most practices.

 

[SilverLinings]

Slightly off-topic, but would hunts dispose of dogs other than theirs? Presumably there isn't any other way to legally PTS a dog in the UK (I started googling this and was horrified by the 'suggested searches' that came up, so stopped- it is horrifying what people seem to search for ).

I hasten to add that I would only (and have only) use a vet for this, and am only asking as I can't see a way this scam could work if the dog was PTS by a vet.

 

[conniegirl]

If you have a vet that will do it for less than £200, do you still get £200?

No chance of a vet for less than £200 to PTS that size of dog.

The cost of cremation/disposal is likely to exceed £200 for dogs 40kg+ at most practices.

Last Jan my vets charged £270 to put to sleep a 20kg dog. TThat was with disposal but no ashes back (disposal was about £70 on the breakdown). They were a cheap practice in a cheap are so no way on earth are you getting a 40KG dog PTS by a vet for less and £200

 

[blackcob]

The form has to be completed by an RCVS registered veterinary surgeon so even if it is legal to have dogs euthanised by other means, it won't count for the compensation scheme.

 

[SilverLinings]

No chance of a vet for less than £200 to PTS that size of dog.

Last Jan my vets charged £270 to put to sleep a 20kg dog. TThat was with disposal but no ashes back (disposal was about £70 on the breakdown). They were a cheap practice in a cheap are so no way on earth are you getting a 40KG dog PTS by a vet for less and £200

In spring 2021 I was charged just over £200 to PTS a 10kg dog, although I had to pay slightly extra because of covid (you weren't allowed in the surgery because of the pandemic, so they could do it indoors without me for the usual fee of just under £200, or charge extra to do it with me holding the dog in the car park). That didn't include cremation etc.

 

[twiggy2]

In spring 2021 I was charged just over £200 to PTS a 10kg dog, although I had to pay slightly extra because of covid (you weren't allowed in the surgery because of the pandemic, so they could do it indoors without me for the usual fee of just under £200, or charge extra to do it with me holding the dog in the car park). That didn't include cremation etc.

They charged you extra to do it in the carpark?
Thats just money grabbing, never in my 14yrs was putting an animal to sleep in the vehicle and issue and we never charged extra for it, I am truly shocked.
My other halfs working collie was pts in March 2023 in the truck to reduce handling and stress for an outdoor dog, no extra was charged.

 

[skinnydipper]

 

[Smitty]

I have seen this. If dogs and owners are true to type, it might solve a lot of problems

 

[skinnydipper]

I have seen this. If dogs and owners are true to type, it might solve a lot of problems

and if other people know where these meets are they can choose to avoid them.

 

[Arzada]

Sometimes I imagine having to explain things, usually societal things, to an "alien"

That's not something I think about. I'm pretty sure (sorry, no proof ) that they have been, seen and conquered left at the speed of light some time ago

 

[oldandgold]

I thought all these dogs were fluffy bunnies yet it says no aggressive dogs

 

[Moobli]

Hmm

 

[Clodagh]

There must be some responsibly bred xl’s who have still got the ears they were born with?

 

[inandout]

One thing in the article I thought interesting is that Pets4homes says there is still a market for XLBs, they are still selling and with at least two serious enquires made about each advertised dog.

Xls were big money dogs for a while, banning them has made them relatively cheap, people are taking the opportunity to get one when they cudnt afford the dog before.

 

[skinnydipper]

Xls were big money dogs for a while, banning them has made them relatively cheap, people are taking the opportunity to get one when they cudnt afford the dog before.

Cheap because neutered dogs don't make money.