maisie06
Well-Known Member
Unfortunatley this is the level of stupidity that is becoming more and more common....good for you for saying what needed to be said.
Another fatal dog attack
- Thread starter SilverLinings
- Start date
GSD Woman
Well-Known Member
I'm over the "It's all in how you raise them" bull $h1t. I corrected some furry baby mommy on some site or another who claimed the dogs that mauled a human hadn't been raised properly. I pointed out that genetics plays a strong role in behavior. I could almost see the pearls being clasped. Other people jumped in to defend that truth but I doubt it made a difference.
I don't know if it's because your country is so much smaller in size than mine, but it seems you have more horrible dog attacks.
I don't know what I could carry that would stop those sorts of dogs. I do live in an open carry state but I can't imagine walking my dog packing heat.
I don't know if it's because your country is so much smaller in size than mine, but it seems you have more horrible dog attacks.
I don't know what I could carry that would stop those sorts of dogs. I do live in an open carry state but I can't imagine walking my dog packing heat.
I'm Dun
Well-Known Member
Nothing. I know one, shes just under the height limit so technically isn't an XL. She also isn't from the breeding lines that seem to have the biggest issue. She really does seem incredibly sweet, but Ive seen that said about nearly all of them. Her owner cant hold her even just walking her, and he's a big bloke so there is no chance of anyone doing anything if she was attacking.
CorvusCorax
'It's only a laugh, no harm done'
I'm actually fed up with the amount of people who don't take genetics into account with even the most basic of dog behaviour. Anyone who goes straight to 'aw, its how they're raised/treated, the poor doggy has been abused' when something bad happens is just living in la la land and knows nothing about dogs/hasn't seen enough in their life.
If you see me, my Dad, uncle and cousins in a room together, you'll know what phenotype is.
But magically it doesn't exist in dogs because no one wants to admit they're not actually an amazing furmom.
Errin Paddywack
Well-Known Member
I wonder if these people would acknowledge that the herding instinct in collies is built in not just the result of training. If herding is genetic I wonder why they don't realise that aggression is too.
Clodagh
Well-Known Member
I don’t know. Because there are none so blind as those that don’t want to see?
I’m sure not all Labradors carry things in their mouths. I’ve never met one but maybe that’s also nothing to do with genetics.
CorvusCorax
'It's only a laugh, no harm done'
I'm sure there are people that will come on here and say their own dog won't do something that their breed is known for or will do something it isn't known for. But that's just their own dog. I'm sure there is, for example, a greyhound out there which can herd sheep. But we don't generally use greyhounds to herd sheep or race collies against each other for money, and there's a reason for that.
webble
Well-Known Member
I dont know the percentage in dogs but temperament is around 35% heritable in cattle so aggression on both sides would be a big factor - plus people are stupid
I suppose if we could genomic test these dogs and only breed from the non aggressive ones they could work but even then I would be wary
skinnydipper
Well-Known Member
So working lines and show lines. Working lines stronger instinct to perform a behaviour and show lines still have the instinct but to a lesser degree?
webble
Well-Known Member
DO the body types tend to different too?
CorvusCorax
'It's only a laugh, no harm done'
Yes and yes. In lots of breeds.
CanteringCarrot
Well-Known Member
Dog bite statistics are still quite high in the USA, I think it's about 4.5 million per year or something close to. The USA obviously has a much higher population than the UK. I think you may hear more about it in the UK because it's a small crowded island. Wheras the USA is rather vast and spread out with some pockets of dense populations. Plus, if a dog bites someone out in the country in a rural setting, it's probably not getting reported as much as it would in a more urban area or where there could be more witnesses. So the number could be higher? Just a thought.
I really haven't seen anyone on here say that genetics don't play a role. I, personally, think that genetics play a very strong role but that it's not always solely genetics and that training and upbringing does or can play a role as well. I really don't give a f*ck if people think I'm an idiot for thinking that.
There are indeed SOME events that can occur that could've been prevented if a dog had better training. If you don't think that, then honestly, whatever. We probably shouldn't talk
However, you can only overcome genetics so much. Dogs can be bred to be aggressive, herders, protectors, racers, hunting partners, and so on. Some dogs have aggression bred into them. Or another trait thst manifests as aggression even if it's not directly labeled as aggression initially.
If you have a guardian breed, you can't be all shocked when it demonstrates guarding behavior(s) and it's not necessarily some failure of training when they do. I think you can curb things a bit and potentially redirect to some extent, but realistically, you can't eliminate.
Dogs are individuals to some extent too. So you do have the outliers, but they're not the norm. I'm sure someone's Lab somewhere herds cattle or something and someone's Blue Heeler is doing water retrievals. But again, not the norm and not widely used for those things for a reason.
I really haven't seen anyone on here say that genetics don't play a role. I, personally, think that genetics play a very strong role but that it's not always solely genetics and that training and upbringing does or can play a role as well. I really don't give a f*ck if people think I'm an idiot for thinking that.
There are indeed SOME events that can occur that could've been prevented if a dog had better training. If you don't think that, then honestly, whatever. We probably shouldn't talk
However, you can only overcome genetics so much. Dogs can be bred to be aggressive, herders, protectors, racers, hunting partners, and so on. Some dogs have aggression bred into them. Or another trait thst manifests as aggression even if it's not directly labeled as aggression initially. If you have a guardian breed, you can't be all shocked when it demonstrates guarding behavior(s) and it's not necessarily some failure of training when they do. I think you can curb things a bit and potentially redirect to some extent, but realistically, you can't eliminate.
Dogs are individuals to some extent too. So you do have the outliers, but they're not the norm. I'm sure someone's Lab somewhere herds cattle or something and someone's Blue Heeler is doing water retrievals. But again, not the norm and not widely used for those things for a reason.
sarah.oxford
Well-Known Member
Agree with previous comments so much.
Yes, retrievers retrieve, collies herd, and apparently XL bullies cuddle babies
Drives me absolutely insane
Yes, retrievers retrieve, collies herd, and apparently XL bullies cuddle babies
Drives me absolutely insane
JoannaC
Well-Known Member
Girl, 10, dies after being bitten by family dog
Despite attempts to save the girl, she suffered serious injuries and died at the scene.
www.bbc.com
And another, so very sad poor little girl
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Mrs. Jingle
Well-Known Member
I can't read the link but I just read about this elsewhere. A bit short on detail though but perhaps just as well. Poor little girl.
splashgirl45
Lurcher lover
So sad, poor family… if one of my dogs had killed a child I would immediately take it to be PTS, I wouldn’t want the decision to be made after it had been in kennels for ages . If they need to assess type they can do that with its body … I don’t understand why there is a delayGirl, 10, dies after being bitten by family dog
Despite attempts to save the girl, she suffered serious injuries and died at the scene.
And another, so very sad poor little girl
CorvusCorax
'It's only a laugh, no harm done'
You can't assess the behaviour of a dead dog.
cauda equina
Well-Known Member
Why would you want to?
That particular dog has already shown its behaviour beyond any doubt
That particular dog has already shown its behaviour beyond any doubt
Mrs. Jingle
Well-Known Member
Regardless of assessment or breed, it has mauled a child to death. What more would one need to assess?
CorvusCorax
'It's only a laugh, no harm done'
Not according to the law, which is why the assessments are carried out so that those responsible for the attack can be subject to the appropriate charge and sentencing.
Most human prisoners have psychiatric evaluations done.
When someone dies in a dog related incident...they can be knocked over and hit their head. They can get an infection/blood poisoning from one bite which could be accidental or something they provoked, or even just a scratch, which has happened to elderly people or very young children in the past. Some of these dogs will not be of type and might actually be quite nice in temperament generally.
Or someone can suffer multiple serious bites from a dog of a restricted breed which is extremely reactive and aggressive and has the bite force of a crocodile.
If the owner knew that the dog was a liability and/or wasn't abiding by the restrictions, then they will be faced with a much higher penalty than someone like the couple who made one mistake and their child was accidentally killed by the family pet of a regular breed, following a split second incident.
And that's not even considering when there are multiple dogs at a scene and it has to be deduced which one is responsible.
It's not about emotion, or what anyone wants or feels, it's about applying the law.
Mrs. Jingle
Well-Known Member
Stuff the law, if that was my dog and my child be it a poodle or a bully I would have had it euthanised immediately.
CorvusCorax
'It's only a laugh, no harm done'
It wouldn't be in your hands if the police were involved. They are the ones who have to help prove if a dog related incident is a crime or an accident.
Mrs. Jingle
Well-Known Member
More's the pity.
CorvusCorax
'It's only a laugh, no harm done'
Nobody is keeping these dogs alive at huge expense for fun. If someone stabbed your mate, you wouldn't say 'oh my God, that awful knife, I'm throwing it in the bin because it killed my friend', you'd wait for the police to turn up and bag it, because it's evidence. The dog is evidence too.
We don't automatically execute someone suspected of committing a crime before the trial. Again, it's not about how we think and feel, emotive as the subject is. The decision needs to be the correct one.
With a dead dog, an owner can say 'oh, that awful child poked poor Fluffy in the eye and he just retaliated, I'm suing you for killing my dog and all the emotional trauma'. With an assessment, you can tell that Fluffy has been wanting to kill dead things for quite some time.
We don't automatically execute someone suspected of committing a crime before the trial. Again, it's not about how we think and feel, emotive as the subject is. The decision needs to be the correct one.
With a dead dog, an owner can say 'oh, that awful child poked poor Fluffy in the eye and he just retaliated, I'm suing you for killing my dog and all the emotional trauma'. With an assessment, you can tell that Fluffy has been wanting to kill dead things for quite some time.
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Mrs. Jingle
Well-Known Member
Now you are just being ridiculous and I won't even dignify that with a response.
Of course I am being over emotional and irrational, a child has just been savaged to death by a dog, of course I want the pet dog PTS ASAP. No I don't care if the child did something to provoke it, that is the fault of the child's parents as much as it is the childs, but I still want that dog destroyed ASAP.
I champion animals over humans almost 100 per cent, but not when a child suffers horribly or dies, I value the life a child higher than any animal. So excuse my take on it all.
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CorvusCorax
'It's only a laugh, no harm done'
No, I'm using an analogy to explain things.
I was talking in general terms, you = one.
I'm not cheerleading for these dogs and I also value a child's life over a dog's.
I'm just explaining what happens and why it happens, because people asked.
If there needs to be a big penalty because a serious crime has been commited, or a lesser conviction because a tragic accident has occurred, the judge needs to be in possession of as many facts as possible and that can be harder to do if the dog is dead.
Jenko109
Well-Known Member
It is a damned shame that they are not PTS immediately, but I get it.
That said, I see no justification for the process taking so long. Months go by sometimes.
Surely it cannot take more than a week to assess if a dog is a danger to society or not?
That said, I see no justification for the process taking so long. Months go by sometimes.
Surely it cannot take more than a week to assess if a dog is a danger to society or not?
Mrs. Jingle
Well-Known Member
I understand the point you are making CC and of course you are 100 per cent correct if one removes emotion from the equation, which I find myself unable to do. But thats my problem. I still think the analogy you used was just ridiculous though.
GSD Woman
Well-Known Member
Wouldn't a 10 day hold be enough?
I understand the desire to immediately put down a dog that mauled a child. What I don't understand is when a child is badly bitten the desire to keep the dog over a person's own child. I've dealt with a few people who've been in that situation and want to keep the dog or rehome it. Put on your big kid panties and do what's right.
BTW, I use a 10 day hold because that's what's done in my state, most of the time. In cases where an attack is serious enough, or if the dog has at least 2 reported cases of a bite that breaks the skin the dog may be put down immediately and then the head is sent to the state lab for rabies testing. I found out all of this when my niece's dog bit me. The animal control officer asked me about my face and if the dog hit me hard enough to leave a bruise. She sounded almost disappointed that he hadn't. I wish he had because he would be gone.
I understand the desire to immediately put down a dog that mauled a child. What I don't understand is when a child is badly bitten the desire to keep the dog over a person's own child. I've dealt with a few people who've been in that situation and want to keep the dog or rehome it. Put on your big kid panties and do what's right.
BTW, I use a 10 day hold because that's what's done in my state, most of the time. In cases where an attack is serious enough, or if the dog has at least 2 reported cases of a bite that breaks the skin the dog may be put down immediately and then the head is sent to the state lab for rabies testing. I found out all of this when my niece's dog bit me. The animal control officer asked me about my face and if the dog hit me hard enough to leave a bruise. She sounded almost disappointed that he hadn't. I wish he had because he would be gone.
druid
Well-Known Member
The 10 day hold is only to assess if the dog has clinical rabies, that's the incubation period. It's not relevant here as we don't have rabies endemic in UK