Another fatal dog attack

[maisie06]

Well today I had to post a rant on my neighbourhood site. It is full of wailing, hair pulling, chest beating idiots.

A woman posted to say she was distraught because she ran a rescue and she had arranged transport and handover for a pregnant dog due to give birth to 8 puppies in 5 weeks time. The dog was PTS by its cruel wicked owner and wicked wicked vet and wicked wicked wicked policeman....... I'm sure you can guess the breed. So it must have been an unregistered one not spayed with an owner who bred from her. She was 5.

People were saying how traumatic and what terrible people they were who did this. They wanted the vet and owner outed on SM.
The OP then said that the dog had an injury and had only been aggressive because she was defending her unborn puppies.

I could stand it no longer and had to say what sort of rescue breaks the law offering to rehome an unregistered pregnant XLB. I also pointed out PTS was not a terrible thing as she would not be able to be legally rehomed and nor would puppies. The rescue idiot then went on to say "she might not measure in fully as an XLB she looks a bit short but police think she is the "type" " . The injury came from fighting with the other XLB in the house that was the sire of the pups. She seems to have bitten a person as well. Both dogs have been PTS. Rescue lady wanted to keep the 8 darling little pups until they were 2 and could be measured to see if they qualified as XLB or just "types" in which case she could then rehome them!

It didn't go well when I said they weren't furbabies but potential killers with known aggressive traits in both adult dogs likely to be passed to pups. Also said years in kennels and rescue would not be conducive to producing good pets. I said PTS need not be traumatic and was in line with the law and frankly was a good outcome all round. The owner of the dogs should be prosecuted for owning unregistered dogs and breeding from them.

I am of course as wicked as the vet, the owner and the policeman. People are crying on the site!!! It;s not the dogs faults - it is the owners etc etc. Yes I know it is the bloody owners but it is also that they are illegal dogs behaving in a dangerous way and pose a threat. Oh no not if they are well treated...

I give up. I don't know why I even read it never mind said anything but I am so angry that people are up in arms that 2 aggressive dogs and 8 potential puppies are out of danger themselves and not able to put others in danger. Ahhhhhhhhhhhhg sorry for the rant.

Unfortunatley this is the level of stupidity that is becoming more and more common....good for you for saying what needed to be said.

 

[GSD Woman]

I'm over the "It's all in how you raise them" bull $h1t. I corrected some furry baby mommy on some site or another who claimed the dogs that mauled a human hadn't been raised properly. I pointed out that genetics plays a strong role in behavior. I could almost see the pearls being clasped. Other people jumped in to defend that truth but I doubt it made a difference.

I don't know if it's because your country is so much smaller in size than mine, but it seems you have more horrible dog attacks.

I don't know what I could carry that would stop those sorts of dogs. I do live in an open carry state but I can't imagine walking my dog packing heat.

 

[I'm Dun]

I don't know what I could carry that would stop those sorts of dogs. I do live in an open carry state but I can't imagine walking my dog packing heat.

Nothing. I know one, shes just under the height limit so technically isn't an XL. She also isn't from the breeding lines that seem to have the biggest issue. She really does seem incredibly sweet, but Ive seen that said about nearly all of them. Her owner cant hold her even just walking her, and he's a big bloke so there is no chance of anyone doing anything if she was attacking.

 

[CorvusCorax]

I'm over the "It's all in how you raise them" bull $h1t. I corrected some furry baby mommy on some site or another who claimed the dogs that mauled a human hadn't been raised properly. I pointed out that genetics plays a strong role in behavior. I could almost see the pearls being clasped. Other people jumped in to defend that truth but I doubt it made a difference.

I don't know if it's because your country is so much smaller in size than mine, but it seems you have more horrible dog attacks.

I don't know what I could carry that would stop those sorts of dogs. I do live in an open carry state but I can't imagine walking my dog packing heat.

I'm actually fed up with the amount of people who don't take genetics into account with even the most basic of dog behaviour. Anyone who goes straight to 'aw, its how they're raised/treated, the poor doggy has been abused' when something bad happens is just living in la la land and knows nothing about dogs/hasn't seen enough in their life.
If you see me, my Dad, uncle and cousins in a room together, you'll know what phenotype is.
But magically it doesn't exist in dogs because no one wants to admit they're not actually an amazing furmom.

 

[Errin Paddywack]

I'm actually fed up with the amount of people who don't take genetics into account with even the most basic of dog behaviour. Anyone who goes straight to 'aw, its how they're raised/treated, the poor doggy has been abused' when something bad happens is just living in la la land and knows nothing about dogs/hasn't seen enough in their life.
If you see me, my Dad, uncle and cousins in a room together, you'll know what phenotype is.
But magically it doesn't exist in dogs because no one wants to admit they're not actually an amazing furmom.

I wonder if these people would acknowledge that the herding instinct in collies is built in not just the result of training. If herding is genetic I wonder why they don't realise that aggression is too.

 

[Clodagh]

I wonder if these people would acknowledge that the herding instinct in collies is built in not just the result of training. If herding is genetic I wonder why they don't realise that aggression is too.

I don’t know. Because there are none so blind as those that don’t want to see?
I’m sure not all Labradors carry things in their mouths. I’ve never met one but maybe that’s also nothing to do with genetics.

 

[CorvusCorax]

I'm sure there are people that will come on here and say their own dog won't do something that their breed is known for or will do something it isn't known for. But that's just their own dog. I'm sure there is, for example, a greyhound out there which can herd sheep. But we don't generally use greyhounds to herd sheep or race collies against each other for money, and there's a reason for that.

 

[webble]

I'm over the "It's all in how you raise them" bull $h1t. I corrected some furry baby mommy on some site or another who claimed the dogs that mauled a human hadn't been raised properly. I pointed out that genetics plays a strong role in behavior. I could almost see the pearls being clasped. Other people jumped in to defend that truth but I doubt it made a difference.

I dont know the percentage in dogs but temperament is around 35% heritable in cattle so aggression on both sides would be a big factor - plus people are stupid

I suppose if we could genomic test these dogs and only breed from the non aggressive ones they could work but even then I would be wary

 

[skinnydipper]

I'm sure there are people that will come on here and say their own dog won't do something that their breed is known for or will do something it isn't known for. But that's just their own dog. I'm sure there is, for example, a greyhound out there which can herd sheep. But we don't generally use greyhounds to herd sheep or race collies against each other for money, and there's a reason for that.

So working lines and show lines. Working lines stronger instinct to perform a behaviour and show lines still have the instinct but to a lesser degree?

 

[webble]

So working lines and show lines. Working lines stronger instinct to perform a behaviour and show lines still have the instinct but to a lesser degree?

DO the body types tend to different too?

 

[CorvusCorax]

Yes and yes. In lots of breeds.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

Dog bite statistics are still quite high in the USA, I think it's about 4.5 million per year or something close to. The USA obviously has a much higher population than the UK. I think you may hear more about it in the UK because it's a small crowded island. Wheras the USA is rather vast and spread out with some pockets of dense populations. Plus, if a dog bites someone out in the country in a rural setting, it's probably not getting reported as much as it would in a more urban area or where there could be more witnesses. So the number could be higher? Just a thought.

I really haven't seen anyone on here say that genetics don't play a role. I, personally, think that genetics play a very strong role but that it's not always solely genetics and that training and upbringing does or can play a role as well. I really don't give a f*ck if people think I'm an idiot for thinking that.

There are indeed SOME events that can occur that could've been prevented if a dog had better training. If you don't think that, then honestly, whatever. We probably shouldn't talk However, you can only overcome genetics so much. Dogs can be bred to be aggressive, herders, protectors, racers, hunting partners, and so on. Some dogs have aggression bred into them. Or another trait thst manifests as aggression even if it's not directly labeled as aggression initially.

If you have a guardian breed, you can't be all shocked when it demonstrates guarding behavior(s) and it's not necessarily some failure of training when they do. I think you can curb things a bit and potentially redirect to some extent, but realistically, you can't eliminate.

Dogs are individuals to some extent too. So you do have the outliers, but they're not the norm. I'm sure someone's Lab somewhere herds cattle or something and someone's Blue Heeler is doing water retrievals. But again, not the norm and not widely used for those things for a reason.

 

[sarah.oxford]

Agree with previous comments so much.
Yes, retrievers retrieve, collies herd, and apparently XL bullies cuddle babies
Drives me absolutely insane