Gloi
Too little time, too much to read.
I think a large number of dog owners have no idea about reading their body language. The more powerful the dog, the bigger the consequences.
Another fatal dog attack
- Thread starter SilverLinings
- Start date
FionaMc
Well-Known Member
You now have dogs that are likely getting less exercise, and more often confined to the house, with no off lead time, are muzzled so unable to engage in some behaviours while out and likely to have fewer outlets for any stress/arousal. Especially when you factor in that many are likely in flats or houses with small gardens (around me in London anyway). It wouldn’t surprise me that some dogs are having a harder time dealing with that who have never shown any indication of aggressive behaviour before and it’s being expressed in ways that escalate (quickly) into bites.
So many are also dealing with chronic pain from such terrible breeding. They’ve been done a real disservice by everyone that was involved in breeding them and creating the industry that has made them so desirable to owners that aren’t equipped to understand them and/or have the wrong setup
I’m not sure there was any good solution really. And we’ll likely see the same cycle with other breeds in future (it worries me seeing so many more Malis out and about for example - they’re absolutely incredible dogs, and I know some fantastic ones doing search & rescue, but in the wrong hands, the same irresponsible breeders, dodgy protection trainers getting involved, ending up inappropriate homes…)
CorvusCorax
'It's only a laugh, no harm done'
Malinois won't be banned. They've been around since the 1800s and they're too useful. Malis are very, very easy to train. They're just hard to occupy. No one with a silver crushed velvet suite will keep a Mali puppy for more than a couple of days. They come out of the womb annoying (rather than snapping at 12-18 months), they can breathe easily and move around normally, so they're just too labour intensive for anyone looking to make a fast buck. The fact that we're seeing so many of them and the reported bites/attacks/deaths are relatively low should tell us something.
FionaMc
Well-Known Member
I really hope so! And you’re probably right - it’s just only been the last couple of years I’ve seen them out in London more with the vibe of ‘status’ type dogs, which is the bit I find mildly concerning as a potentially emerging trend that could set up problems several years down the line. Becoming ‘fashionable’ seems to be the worst thing for the quality of any breed.
At least nobody has introduced a merle pattern to them yet as far as I know.
ester
Not slacking multitasking
There’s Merle bullies…
maisie06
Well-Known Member
A friend showed me a post on the local faceache page about an XL bully running loose around the town centre recently, many people were quite rightly concerned as the thing was not muzzled and no collar or harness, sure enough the don't bully my bully lot were harping on about how the poor furbaby was probably frightened - looking for it's next meal more like- and that they are nanny dogs and how much they love kids - yeah as a starter - then the whole post degenerated into some really nasty comments when someone said they now carry a walking pole (legal) in case they encounter one on the loose wit one bully owner saying they would stab or shoot anyone who threatened their XL .....thread has since been pulled but just shows the mentality of some of the idiots that own these weapons of dogs.
Nasicus
Well-Known Member
Interesting how the 'Nanny Dog' myth has jumped from Staffies to Pitbulls to XL Bullies.
GSD Woman
Well-Known Member
The across the board PTS wouldn't work. People will just call them something else.
I've worked with vets who said that pit bulls were boxer mixes and or lab mixes. Many of the shelters here do too.
That makes me so angry. Perhaps if people knew what they were really getting some of them would keep looking or be more aware of potential issues.
I honestly think both. Too many people choose these dogs because they look "macho." Any breed with a fighting history, and there is pit bull back there, can give off such subtle signs that the average person won't pick up on them.
sarah.oxford
Well-Known Member
Yes I think you're right.
I have 2 staffords, both agility dogs.
One is dodgy with other dogs in certain situations due to intolerance of dogs invading her space. Therefore she is NEVER given the opportunity to let herself down.
My other one is bombproof and will back away from even the most subtle negative signals from another dog. He makes my life very easy.
My older one.... as I said, it's 100% about knowing her and managing her. She would take advantage given the chance.
Both are 100% with people, and I would have a zero tolerance for any failings in that department.
Unfortunately the general consensus in the XL community is that their dogs are being picked on, and that the dogs killing people are not XL's.
The ignorance is mind blowing and I think the fact that the public are theoretically protected by the muzzle laws only solves a fraction of the problem, because those dogs are unmuzzled in the family homes with kids around, and the kids need protecting too. Clearly the parents are in denial about the risk and that in itself is terrifying.
No dogs should be unattended with kids, yet how many times do we see babies and XL bullies in the same photo?? Yet when it goes wrong it 'came from nowhere '
I'm Dun
Well-Known Member
I'm currently writing my thesis on how humans interpret dog communication. It is terrifying and yet not surprising how few people have a clue. I wish I'd picked a different topic as its just bloody depressing.
misst
Well-Known Member
I remember seeing something which showed photos of different dogs all showing different behaviours to small children. The children were then asked what the dog was feeling eg scared happy cross etc. The that was clearly snarling was identified by all the children as happy. Because it was smiling.....
That's why unsupervised kids and all dogs should not mix.
SaddlePsych'D
Well-Known Member
When we first got Ivy (pre XL bully explosion in numbers) it was Malis I was afraid of meeting on walks but I've only seen a handful of them in the three years we've had her, and each time I've mainly just stood gawping at how well trained they were
GSD Woman
Well-Known Member
I so agree. I've had dogs that were wonderful with children. But, they were only allowed to be with the dogs if I was there supervising.
cloverlea
Active Member
Seen an advert for puppies Boerboel (African Mastiff) x Cane Corso. Why do people want these giant dogs as pets? They cannot have an XLBullie so are trying to create something else to replace it. There is no consideration given to temperament only size.
blackcob
🖖
The only dog I ever saw being catchpoled in veterinary practice was a boerboel (from memory this was at the owner’s request and consent).
druid
Well-Known Member
Conversely, I have a Boerboel breeder as a client and his dogs are immaculately trained and have good temperaments
skinnydipper
Well-Known Member
Does your client breed and train to be guard dogs?
druid
Well-Known Member
Protection and FCI showing
skinnydipper
Well-Known Member
Not the sort of dog you would want to be owned by a numpty or as a status dog.
twiggy2
Well-Known Member
The only ones i ever saw being catchpoled were freaked out gsd's.
GSD Woman
Well-Known Member
This is a serious, powerful breed. Just like all of the other power breeds they don't belong in the hands of just anyone.
I used to do obedience trials with a woman who bred, showed and did obedience with her Boerboels. She knew what she was doing.
I've seen too many dog that had to be catch poled.
Jenko109
Well-Known Member
comments disabled on this video, however her other video has lots of comments. Mostly people saying how awful it is that shes has had to have her dog PTS because he was only protecting her....despite the owner acknowledging that the person the dog attacked was known to her and did nothing threatening to cause the dog to attack him
conniegirl
Well-Known Member
i’m not sure she could have talked any slower. Really really irritating.
comments disabled on this video, however her other video has lots of comments. Mostly people saying how awful it is that shes has had to have her dog PTS because he was only protecting her....despite the owner acknowledging that the person the dog attacked was known to her and did nothing threatening to cause the dog to attack him
any dog that is going to go for someone you have invited into your home is not a dog that should be out and about.
Equally she says the dog is not used to men but she has 18yr old boys, the dog should be used to them
Eta - if the dog had been any other breed it likely still would have been siezed by police as it sounds like it did a lot of damage.
It may not have been shot on sight but would have been siezed
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skinnydipper
Well-Known Member
comments disabled on this video, however her other video has lots of comments. Mostly people saying how awful it is that shes has had to have her dog PTS because he was only protecting her....despite the owner acknowledging that the person the dog attacked was known to her and did nothing threatening to cause the dog to attack him
Sorry, I haven't listened to it all.
She said Cujo (Cujo, FGS) nipped the strangers hand. I wouldn't call that a nip.
Why didn't she have the dog shut in another room when she had a stranger going into her home?
Her fault.
CorvusCorax
'It's only a laugh, no harm done'
Or just don't put dogs or visitors in that situation, particularly dogs that can potentially do a lot of damage. I've had visitors who stayed for a week and didn't even see my dogs.
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Jenko109
Well-Known Member
I'm finding it hard to articulate, but she had an above average duty of care, owning a banned breed.
Lots of people (myself included) have a dog who we would not trust with strangers in their home. We take steps to not set them up to fail.
But to own an XL bully and take such careless risks is terrifying. Thankfully it wasn't a small child at eye level.
'Cujo' though. Says it all really.
Lots of people (myself included) have a dog who we would not trust with strangers in their home. We take steps to not set them up to fail.
But to own an XL bully and take such careless risks is terrifying. Thankfully it wasn't a small child at eye level.
'Cujo' though. Says it all really.
cauda equina
Well-Known Member
Everything is always someone else's fault isn't it?
It's because of 'the stupid ban' that he's been pts; nothing to do with having a big powerful poorly socialised dog around when a stranger was in the house
Not relevant - but it really irritates me when people refer to men as males - presumably it was a man, not a male animal of some other species?
It's because of 'the stupid ban' that he's been pts; nothing to do with having a big powerful poorly socialised dog around when a stranger was in the house
Not relevant - but it really irritates me when people refer to men as males - presumably it was a man, not a male animal of some other species?
MissTyc
Well-Known Member
My 9kg terrier isn't allowed to meet people in the house. Baby gate keeps him away fromt he front door and then he has a crate or goes in the bedroom if we have guests. He has never bitten or nipped, but he gives me that "vibe" ... It frightens me enough in a little dog that can be held back/restrained if needed. The older I get the more scared I am of really big powerful dogs. Because people.
sarah.oxford
Well-Known Member
You articulate this extremely well.
I feel I have an above duty of care owning 2 staffords, and they are obviously not banned or restricted.
I feel like I need to demonstrate a higher level of control than I would with a spaniel or a lab, for example. This is because people notice and especially at agility shows we need to stand out for good reasons as we are representing our breed.
Today I sadly decided not to attend an indoor agility show as I stupidly entered assuming my friend was attending and she helps by queuing for me. Arthur is not aggressive and backs off if another dog gives off negative vibes both on and off the lead, I have no concerns regarding his temperament. However he is a bit of a knob when queuing as he is so desperate to run, so he barks. This particular show has a very strict queuing system and it is difficult to hang back and having nobody there to queue for me, I decided rather than risk causing offense I would stay at home.
At outdoor shows there is space to step out of the queue and walk him in circles but not indoors unfortunately.
How people can have dogs with questionable temperaments and put their dogs in a position to fail I do not know. If they want these ridiculous breeds, and I don't understand that either, they need strong management policies in place. This should be the case even if there has been no incident in my opinion, due to the size and the evidence showing the speed at which things can unravel.
How we get that message across with the mass denial currently existing among xl owners I don't know. The current restrictions do not seem to have frightened them enough.
Dobiegirl
Well-Known Member
As I understand it the man just walked into her house, how many of us with guarding breeds would expect exactly the same response from our dogs.
One of my friends has 2 gun dogs one a Springer the other a Labrador and both bit a local farmer who walked into their house, obviously being the breeds they are he didnt need hospital treatment and he fully accepts responsibility for what happened.
Because XL Bullies have such tremendous bite power they are going to do serious damage but the fact he stopped when called back IMO wasn't a serious attack. I cant help feeling sorry for her , she had her dog pts humanely too. I dont like these dogs and cant understand anyone who wants one but I dont think everyone who owns one is irresponsible either.
One of my friends has 2 gun dogs one a Springer the other a Labrador and both bit a local farmer who walked into their house, obviously being the breeds they are he didnt need hospital treatment and he fully accepts responsibility for what happened.
Because XL Bullies have such tremendous bite power they are going to do serious damage but the fact he stopped when called back IMO wasn't a serious attack. I cant help feeling sorry for her , she had her dog pts humanely too. I dont like these dogs and cant understand anyone who wants one but I dont think everyone who owns one is irresponsible either.