Another fatal dog attack

[Errin Paddywack]

All this discussion has reminded me of a nightmare I had, think I was early teens or even younger so this would have been late 50's/early 60's. I was being chased by a dog down a local street and I had a knife and was trying to kill it by stabbing it in the head. I can clearly remember how the knife would go in but not through the skull. It was a horrible dream and has stayed with me all these years. The weird thing is that the dog was a staffy/bull type, not over big. Back then I had never seen a staffy or any similar breed so why did I visualise it in my dream. My usual nightmares were about heights or trying to run and not being able to. Never had another about a dog and have always loved dogs.

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

That's an odd one EP, I can quite see how it would stick with you.

 

[Sealine]

Unfortunately I know what I'd do if my dog was attacked. In 2017 my GSD was attacked by two mastiffs and I waded in without thinking. He was the most friendly and sociable dog before the attack but he was never the same again and it made him very reactive to other dogs. He's very elderly now and he only has short walks late at night when there are no other dogs around as he is a very wobbly, fragile old boy and it would break my heart to see him hurt. A dog attack would finish him off to be honest.

This is from my post back in 2017

Yesterday whilst walking my gsd on a public footpath he was attacked by two mastiffs who jumped over a three foot fence from a property alongside the footpath. I managed to get them off my dog just as the owner appeared and I stood still waiting for him to get hold of them before I carried on walking. Before he got to the dogs they charged at my dog again throwing him in to the air and pinning him to the ground and attacking him again. Again, I pulled them off him just as a third dog appeared. The owner grabbed the mastiffs and as I walked away the third dog was following us barking and I had to keep shouting at it to keep it away. A few minutes later as I my adrenaline dropped I realised I'd been bitten on the arm, I'm bruised but they didn't drawn blood as I had a couple of layers of clothes. My dog appears to be ok. I saw some blood on his mouth at the time but I think he may have bitten his tongue. He has a few sore patches and chunks of hair missing and I'm sure he's feeling a bit bruised too. At the time I thought I was about to see my dog being killed in front of me. It was terrifying and I'm shaking now as I write this.

 

[Smitty]

Have just read that a 66 year old lady recovering from cancer, had her 12 yo yorkie killed by a Pitbull type dog in a shop in Davenport, Plymouth on Saturday. Apparently the attack lasted some minutes with the shop being closed for 2 hours to clear up the blood. The police responded to the 999 call but the person and dog had disappeared. They are looking at CCTV footage and searching for the dog and it's owner.

Obviously the Yorkie's owner is in bits and says she will never go shopping in that particular street again because of the memories, but also says she is worried about repercussions which I find deeply concerning.

 

[Errin Paddywack]

I hope they get that dog and even more so that it is put down. I can't say what I would like to happen to the owner. That poor woman and her dog, how do you ever get over something like that.

 

[Smitty]

Just read an update on a Facebook page from her son. Apparently the police have said it is a civil case and the owner has to keep it muzzled and on a lead!!!!

I'm sure that will happen .

 

[Clodagh]

Just read an update on a Facebook page from her son. Apparently the police have said it is a civil case and the owner has to keep it muzzled and on a lead!!!!

I'm sure that will happen .

Ludicrous. They need to go higher up the policing food chain.

 

[splashgirl45]

How ridiculous, the penalty for this sort of thing is too lenient, it could easily be a child next

 

[Clodagh]

How ridiculous, the penalty for this sort of thing is too lenient, it could easily be a child next

I do t necessarily think the dog will next attack a child, I’ve had a dog aggressive dog who was fine with all humans. The fact is that woman’s family member, companion and friend was brutally murdered in front of her. Nothing civil about it.

 

[cauda equina]

I wonder what has happened to this

Tory MP in bid to make fatal dog-on-dog attacks specific criminal offence

EXCLUSIVE: Anna Firth is introducing a private members' bill in a bid to make fatal dog-on-dog attacks a specific criminal offence.

www.express.co.uk

 

[splashgirl45]

I do t necessarily think the dog will next attack a child, I’ve had a dog aggressive dog who was fine with all humans. The fact is that woman’s family member, companion and friend was brutally murdered in front of her. Nothing civil about it.

Not necessarily a child but could be, and didn’t the person run off with the dog or was that a different one. If it was him then surely that could be held against him, after all if you hit a dog with your car I think you are supposed to report it

 

[Smitty]

Not necessarily a child but could be, and didn’t the person run off with the dog or was that a different one. If it was him then surely that could be held against him, after all if you hit a dog with your car I think you are supposed to report it

I think they either mostly clear off with the dog, or sometimes they attack the owner of the attacked dog. The police do little about that either in some cases.

 

[Smitty]

I wonder what has happened to this

Tory MP in bid to make fatal dog-on-dog attacks specific criminal offence

EXCLUSIVE: Anna Firth is introducing a private members' bill in a bid to make fatal dog-on-dog attacks a specific criminal offence.

www.express.co.uk

I'm on a Facebook group, Protect our pets, who are campaigning to get dog on dog attacks criminalised and have a petition to sign which can always do with more signatures. This bill is mentioned a lot, as is a parliamentary group set up to study these attacks.

I'm convinced if something is not done to deter these sort of attacks they will just become the norm. Apparently dog attacks have increased by something stupid like 700% in the last five years and I can't say I'm surprised when you see the types of dog up for rehoming on the free sites and these huge muscle dogs are getting relatively cheap to buy now.

 

[Smitty]

Ludicrous. They need to go higher up the policing food chain.

I agree but my understanding is that at present an offence has only been committed if the attacked dog is a service dog, so in effect no law was broken.

 

[Keith_Beef]

Just read an update on a Facebook page from her son. Apparently the police have said it is a civil case and the owner has to keep it muzzled and on a lead!!!!

I'm sure that will happen .

The CPS guidance at this page is interesting.

If the attacking dog is a pit-bull type, then a criminal case should be possible under the Dangerous Dogs Act 1991 for having a dog on DEFRA's list (Pit Bull Terrier, Japanese Tosa, Dogo Argentino, Fila Braziliero) without the dog being muzzled.

Another case is possible:

Under section 3(1) of the 1991 Act (as amended by the Anti-Social Behaviour, Crime and Policing Act 2014, (the ‘2014 Act’)), if any dog is dangerously out of control in any place, including all private property, the owner, or person for the time being in charge of the dog, is guilty of a summary offence. That offence becomes an aggravated offence, and triable either way, if the dog injures any person or an assistance dog while out of control.

It looks like a summary offence of "dangerously out of control"; it would have been an aggravated offence if a person or service dog had been injured.

The owner of the Yorkie and her son should be getting legal advice on how to step this up from a civil to a criminal case.

 

[Smitty]

The CPS guidance at this page is interesting.

If the attacking dog is a pit-bull type, then a criminal case should be possible under the Dangerous Dogs Act 1991 for having a dog on DEFRA's list (Pit Bull Terrier, Japanese Tosa, Dogo Argentino, Fila Braziliero) without the dog being muzzled.

Another case is possible:

It looks like a summary offence of "dangerously out of control"; it would have been an aggravated offence if a person or service dog had been injured.

The owner of the Yorkie and her son should be getting legal advice on how to step this up from a civil to a criminal case.

That is very interesting Keith, but I presume the dog has to be 'proved' to be a banned breed. I shall try and put this on the group as the second scenario seems achievable.

 

[Keith_Beef]

That is very interesting Keith, but I presume the dog has to be 'proved' to be a banned breed. I shall try and put this on the group as the second scenario seems achievable.

I think that the decision to go for a civil case hangs on the probability of getting the court to class the attacking dog as being of "pit-bull type".

From the CPS page:

The word ‘type’ in relation to dogs has a broader meaning than ‘breed’. A court could properly conclude that a dog was ‘of the type known as the pit bull terrier’ within the meaning of section 1 of the Dangerous Dogs Act 1991, so as to make it an offence to allow it to be in a public place without being muzzled, so long as its characteristics substantially conformed to the standard set for the breed by the American Dog Breeders Association (ABDA), even though it did not meet that standard in every respect, (R v Crown Court at Knightsbridge ex parte Dunne; Brock v Director of Public Prosecutions [1993] 4 All ER 491).

If the dog looks very much like the American Dog Breeders Association's idea of a pit-bull breed, then the court might easily decide that to all intents and purposes it is indeed a pit-bull. If the dog's conformation is too far from ABDA's standard, the case fails.

 

[Smitty]

I think that the decision to go for a civil case hangs on the probability of getting the court to class the attacking dog as being of "pit-bull type".

From the CPS page:


If the dog looks very much like the American Dog Breeders Association's idea of a pit-bull breed, then the court might easily decide that to all intents and purposes it is indeed a pit-bull. If the dog's conformation is too far from ABDA's standard, the case fails.

Well in that case I hope the lady and her son do take it further, but she is understandably concerned about repercussions as she has lived in the community all her life.

 

[Sealine]

A few years ago a friend's JRT was killed in front of her by 3 GSDs. The dogs came out of the open gates of a large house and attacked as my friend was walking past. These dogs had a history of attacking dogs and had already killed a cat. It's a big private house with alot of land (horses, stables etc) so I never understood why the owner couldn't keep her gates closed and her dogs in. The police took it seriously and one of the dogs was put down.

My friend is understandably very traumatised by this. She now has a GSD herself but always carries a large stick when walking.

 

[misst]

Three XL bullies have just moved in to my village next to a friend of mine. First ones I’ve seen locally. I haven’t met them out walking yet. My friend said she saw one of the dogs out in the garden a couple of days ago. It was chewing on a bone and it’s owner was a couple of metres away chatting to someone. Their little daughter (about 2 years old) apparently toddled up to the dog, grabbed it’s bone and took it away, and was then waving the bone around and patting the dog on the head. Friend said the dog was exceptionally tolerant and good natured about it, but that she (friend) was terrified watching. It sounded to me like exactly the sort of situation that gets little kids hurt and not the dogs fault.

That is why I do not leave my JRTs unsupervised with my 6yo granddaughter - and never have. I'm not sure one of mine would put up with a high value treat being removed (I can take anything and so can my husband) by a small child. Certainly if it was waved around my terriers would consider this fair game to try and retrieve it!

 

[AmyMay]

That is very interesting Keith, but I presume the dog has to be 'proved' to be a banned breed. I shall try and put this on the group as the second scenario seems achievable.

It didn’t stop the Police from shooting two staffies.

 

[MurphysMinder]

It didn’t stop the Police from shooting two staffies.

I think the term staffy could be applied very loosely to those 2 looking at photos of them.

 

[Smitty]

It didn’t stop the Police from shooting two staffies.

What 2 Stafford are you referring to?

 

[Clodagh]

What 2 Stafford are you referring to?

I assume the staffies on steroids in London

 

[Smitty]

Staffies even! Stupid phone ..

 

[CanteringCarrot]

A few years ago a friend's JRT was killed in front of her by 3 GSDs. The dogs came out of the open gates of a large house and attacked as my friend was walking past. These dogs had a history of attacking dogs and had already killed a cat. It's a big private house with alot of land (horses, stables etc) so I never understood why the owner couldn't keep her gates closed and her dogs in. The police took it seriously and one of the dogs was put down.

My friend is understandably very traumatised by this. She now has a GSD herself but always carries a large stick when walking.

Someone in my neighborhood is terrified of dogs, and carries a large stick as does her child. The problem is that when someone walks by, on the other side of the road, minding their own business with a dog that doesn't give a single f*ck and is walking nicely, she decides to yell and wave the giant stick around. Then the dog that didn't give a care in the world is suddenly like, WTF?! Or in the case of some dogs, perhaps, now highly interested.

I've tried to tell her it's fine to walk with the stick and be alert, but just act normal FFS. You're literally going to trigger a dog with that behavior and become more hysterical and that may lead to something, whereas if you just kept walking!

My dogs are fine with it, and yes, everyone should have control over their dogs, but it just doesn't help at all when you act mad! She's never been attacked and just doesn't like dogs. Which is fair, but if they're staying away, going right on past, then just remain quiet and calm.

I feel bad because I don't know what it's like to have such a fear, but still.

 

[Smitty]

I assume the staffies on steroids in London

Thank you. Hmm. OK. Different force, different circumstances. And totally not relating to a person in a shop!!

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

My goodness CC that is very extreme behaviour. If I lived in an urban area with that sort of nutter around, one of my very over protective and reactive labs would most definitely react very badly to someone walking past us even at that distance waving a large stick and shouting at us!

I would suggest neither she or her offspring should be allowed out in public without a muzzle and gag on.

 

[CorvusCorax]

Someone in my neighborhood is terrified of dogs, and carries a large stick as does her child. The problem is that when someone walks by, on the other side of the road, minding their own business with a dog that doesn't give a single f*ck and is walking nicely, she decides to yell and wave the giant stick around. Then the dog that didn't give a care in the world is suddenly like, WTF?! Or in the case of some dogs, perhaps, now highly interested.

I've tried to tell her it's fine to walk with the stick and be alert, but just act normal FFS. You're literally going to trigger a dog with that behavior and become more hysterical and that may lead to something, whereas if you just kept walking!

My dogs are fine with it, and yes, everyone should have control over their dogs, but it just doesn't help at all when you act mad! She's never been attacked and just doesn't like dogs. Which is fair, but if they're staying away, going right on past, then just remain quiet and calm.

I feel bad because I don't know what it's like to have such a fear, but still.

Well I mean, for instance, my dogs who are trained in bitework are completely neutral walking down the town, as they are trained highly specifically to not react to anything 'normal' and only to target the guy coming at them, waving a stick and roaring at them....

 

[Tiddlypom]

That stick waving and yelling would wind up most dogs, I'd think.

Daft woman. Being wary of dogs is fine. Yelling at dogs and waving sticks at them when they are under control and minding their own business is not.