Another fatal dog attack

[skinnydipper]

I've already mentioned that my friend's son was bitten on the face by a Golden Retriever he'd known it's whole life when they (he and the owner and some pals) came in from a night on the town, he needed plastic surgery, it's a risk with any dog.

Do you know what happened that triggered the dog to bite?

 

[Cinnamontoast]

Not fatal, but all sorts of stupid, I'll pop this on the irresponsible owners thread as well. My friend's adult son has had to have plastic surgery on his face after a childhood friend's Golden Retriever bit him in the face.

Young boy needed plastic surgery after dog bit his face at pub party, court told

The dog's owner was asked more than once to put him on a lead - but didn't

www.leaderlive.co.uk

Why was the guy inside the function room for à children’s party when he didn’t have a child with him? All together very odd. Apparently a child fell into the dog. If I trip over one of mine, they get out of the way, they don’t bite me.

My OH took the dogs to swim yesterday in a local river inside a park, told me a huge mastiff type barked at them and at him, with the owner saying ‘Oh, why are you barking, silly dog?’ but not attempting to put it on the lead or shut it up. He said it was intimidating and he’s not normally bothered by dogs. Fortunately our lot just dashed into the water and the mastiff didn’t follow.

 

[CorvusCorax]

Do you know what happened that triggered the dog to bite?

He was doing what he'd always done, sitting in a chair and the dog came over and he started petting/fussing the dog, the difference was that he was merry and stinking of drink, as were all the other people in the room. He'd known the dog since he was a kid and the dog was a puppy Like I say, alcohol and dogs is not a good mix. One of my own got quite edgy around me with drink on board, because I was 'different'.

 

[CorvusCorax]

Why was the guy inside the function room for à children’s party when he didn’t have a child with him? All together very odd. Apparently a child fell into the dog. If I trip over one of mine, they get out of the way, they don’t bite me.

I don't think it's fair to compare your own pet dogs, in their own environment, to a dog in a stressful situation with unknown people, especially small, fast-moving, high pitched ones.

 

[Cinnamontoast]

I don't think it's fair to compare your own pet dogs, in their own environment, to a dog in a stressful situation with unknown people, especially small, fast-moving, high pitched ones.

No, but the bloke shouldn’t have had the dog in à probably very stressful situation. The article is clear that he shouldn’t have been in there. Very odd situation.

 

[skinnydipper]

He was doing what he'd always done, sitting in a chair and the dog came over and he started petting/fussing the dog, the difference was that he was merry and stinking of drink, as were all the other people in the room. He'd known the dog since he was a kid and the dog was a puppy Like I say, alcohol and dogs is not a good mix. One of my own got quite edgy around me with drink on board, because I was 'different'.

Thanks. 'Like' doesn't seem appropriate.

 

[CorvusCorax]

No, but the bloke shouldn’t have had the dog in à probably very stressful situation. The article is clear that he shouldn’t have been in there. Very odd situation.

I don't think that was in question, I was addressing the bit about you saying your dogs not biting you if they tripped over you. It's comparing apples with oranges.

When a dog is injured or startled, they don't have hands or voices to express their shock or discomfort, they sometimes use their mouths.

 

[Cinnamontoast]

I don't think that was in question, I was addressing the bit about you saying your dogs not biting you if they tripped over you. It's comparing apples with oranges.

When a dog is injured or startled, they don't have hands or voices to express their shock or discomfort, they sometimes use their mouths.

I know, I’m just saying it was an odd situation into which the dog should obviously not been placed.

 

[Morwenna]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-free-jaws.html?ito=social-twitter_mailonline

Not a fatal attack but looks like a ban is now being suggested.

 

[AmyMay]

https://x.com/suellabraverman/status/1700924751646982312?s=46&t=cVv1TUbL-IXrool4KWcuDQ

 

[stangs]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-free-jaws.html?ito=social-twitter_mailonline

Not a fatal attack but looks like a ban is now being suggested.

Yet more brilliant reporting from the Daily Mail.

They say the issue is needing to stop 'the generically engineered American crosses from reaching Britain's shores' which is utterly poetic. "Sure, maybe these dogs have been bred in the UK, which we already stated earlier in this article, but like everything bad in Britain, they've come from across the sea and that's the real issue".

A ban is being suggested by 1 person in power, and God knows that if we did everything Braverman suggests, this country would be in greater ruin than we are already.

Apparently spring poles are to 'strengthen biting power'. Lol.

And I don't know why a criminologist fancies himself an expert on why dog behaviour, but he's quoted PETA in at least one article he wrote so he's not exactly clued up.

It's just such a stupid article that it's genuinely upsetting. If you think it's the breed, then blame the breed with the ridiculous 'mutant crossbreed' propaganda. But then they - both the article writers and this daft criminologist - go on to say it's because of "the dog's violent upbringing by savage owners". In which case, these 'savage owners' aren't going to disappear if you ban the breed. They're not going to think "oh well, I'm going to give up on my aggressive/dogfighting tendencies because I can't have my dream breed". They will do the same to another breed and then you'll get the same issues. If someone can train one breed to be aggressive, they can train another. It's just so incredibly, incredibly stupid and illogical, but it's this sh*t reporting that infects the masses and suddenly everyone's forgotten how to think critically.

What would be worthwhile is testing bullies, that have been taken into police custody following an attack, for rage syndrome - or even using them for genomic sequencing before they're PTS, so we could learn more about what's actually going on here. But God forbid anything useful get done in this country.

 

[CorvusCorax]

She's sure to handle the whole issue capably. Yes siree.

 

[stangs]

Tomorrow’s headline: Braverman suggests deporting all XL bullies.

“It is still my dream to send a plane to Rwanda,” the home secretary said, “but if I can’t get refugees to fill it, the dogs will have to do.”

 

[conniegirl]

They will do the same to another breed a

Possibly yes

and then you'll get the same issues.

Not necessarily, very few dogs have the sheer size, bite strength and propensity to hang on to the death.

Yes you can teach any dog to be aggressive but their relative ability to do massive amounts of damage and their natural propensity to nasty and aggressive behaviour is why they should be banned.

Ive dealt with a lot of dogs, we have been last chance saloon for a breed rescue. Non of those dogs we had (some with a bite history) have ever set my hairs on end quite like the XL bully that watched us intently at the duck pond a couple of months ago.

 

[stangs]

Not necessarily, very few dogs have the sheer size, bite strength and propensity to hang on to the death.

Any well-chosen cross, anything that falls under the categorisation of bandog will do the same thing, and won't necessarily be covered by the DDA if they did decide to ban dogs of an XL bully's description.

their natural propensity to nasty and aggressive behaviour

These sorts of claims are why we need proper research on the breed rather than banning the lot. Is it just a combination of drive and reactivity, which makes them no worse than a lot of breeds and which just means they need to be kept by experienced owners like the many other breeds with that those traits? Is it that there are specific lines of the breed, allegedly by Kimbo, which are at a high risk of having a sudden onset of inexplicable rage, maybe even rage syndrome - in which case it's not the breed, it's the line, and genomic sequencing would be useful not only for protecting people from XL bullies, but from other potential dog attacks too?

Ive dealt with a lot of dogs, we have been last chance saloon for a breed rescue. Non of those dogs we had (some with a bite history) have ever set my hairs on end quite like the XL bully that watched us intently at the duck pond a couple of months ago.

It set your hairs on end because the breed has been in the news nonstop so you estimated the risk of an attack as much more likely than you would if a Rottweiler, say, was doing the exact same thing. That's just how the human brain works; that's nothing to do with the dog's behaviour.

 

[AmyMay]

.

 

[splashgirl45]

I am still mostly the camp of not the breed , but the problem with the XL bully is the size and potential to actually kill an adult. I think 3 of the fatal attacks have resulted in the owner being killed, and some of the other attacks were in the home by dogs that either lived there or belonged to a relative.. all dogs have the potential to attack and I think we need make it more difficult for people to get a dog, especially one of the bigger breeds. there are now many more nervous aggressive dogs than there ever was before. Lockdown may be one of the reasons due to lack of socialising ..I don’t know what the answer is but I’m glad I live out in the country and so far haven’t encountered any XL bullies

 

[equinerebel]

It’s also being reported on the BBC this morning:

Suella Braverman orders urgent advice on banning American bully XLs

The home secretary says the breed is a clear and lethal danger, after a girl and two men are attacked.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[MurphysMinder]

It’s also being reported on the BBC this morning:

Suella Braverman orders urgent advice on banning American bully XLs

The home secretary says the breed is a clear and lethal danger, after a girl and two men are attacked.

www.bbc.co.uk

It was on itv good morning Britain too. They had a bully in the studio , with his owner , a trainer. She was trying to defend the breed, but wasn't very convincing. The dog was very placid but had the most piercing eyes, wouldn't wanted to meet him out on the street. I feel bad saying that having a breed who has had a bad reputation in the past, but there was just something about him . There was also another trainer on who assesses dogs with regard to them being pit bull type, and he didn't mince words about not trusting xl bullies.

 

[cauda equina]

From the bbc article -

A Defra spokesman said: "We take dog attacks and anti-social behaviour very seriously and are making sure the full force of the law is being applied.
"This can range from lower-level Community Protection Notices - which require dog owners to take appropriate action to address behaviour - to more serious offences under the Dangerous Dogs Act, where people can be put in prison for up to 14 years, be disqualified from ownership or result in dangerous dogs being euthanised."

I'm not sure that dog attacks are taken seriously by the authorities; and anyway, by the time an attack has occurred the damage has been done
What wrong with simply saying there are some dogs that we will not allow? Why does a person's desire to own a This or a That override public safery?

 

[scats]

I am so torn about this because I am very fond of an XL bully and find him to be the most friendly, loving dog.
I know that any dog in my salon could turn (and I have more bites off small dogs) but the reality is that I’m not going to be mauled to death by a shihtzu but very easily could by the xl bully.

Ive dealt with a lot of dogs, we have been last chance saloon for a breed rescue. Non of those dogs we had (some with a bite history) have ever set my hairs on end quite like the XL bully that watched us intently at the duck pond a couple of months ago.

The eyes on the XL bully can make people very wary because they appear to have a wide eyed, intense stare. If you put them next to another dog, the pair of them could be starring at a human with the same intensity, but the human will perceive the bully as more threatening due to their unusual and intense eyes.

I do have a theory that the eyes on these dogs makes people act strangely around them and this might be one of the reasons why the dog is actually triggered to attack. I had a conversation with a friend about these dogs a while back actually and her exact words were “you just can’t take your eyes off that stare, can you?”

 

[MurphysMinder]

Yes it was the eyes that got me on the dog on tv this morning, and P3LH commented the same on in his post above. I can imagine someone who didn't know dogs might feel a compulsion to stare at a dog with such an intense gaze.

 

[CorvusCorax]

My old dog has an incredibly freakish stare, but people don't notice it because he is dark and 'aw, a fluffy bear!!'

 

[MurphysMinder]

Yes but he's got a lovely dark eye. This dog had very light coloured eyes, sort of blue/amber.

 

[scats]

Humans are wired to try and read other animals/people via their eyes to decide whether they are in potential danger (the term ‘murderers eyes’, for instance). If you pair very strange eyes with a huge, muscular dog that has a jaw larger than a small human head, it’s no wonder it gives people the heebie jeebies and that their behaviour and body language will alter around that dog.

My old dog has an incredibly freakish stare, but people don't notice it because he is dark and 'aw, a fluffy bear!!'

I imagine if he were a short coated dog without the ‘redeeming features’ that humans like, peoples behaviour would likely change towards him.

 

[Morwenna]

It’s an appalling article, as you’d expect from the DM, and I am certainly no fan of Cruella. I did think it was interesting though that someone in power has commissioned advice on banning them.

 

[NinjaPony]

I’m keeping up with this thread because I feel very torn about the issue. I know that because my dog was nearly killed by a similar type, I’m not very objective about it but I don’t want to have a knee jerk reaction.

The reality is that there are a huge amount more of these dogs out and about now and that they have the physicality to maul and kill people, and it appears that they are the new ‘hard’ breed for idiots. Personally I can’t see any good reason why you’d want a dog like that, but as I said, I’m not exactly objective. How would a ban like this be enforced? I’ll admit I’d feel a lot safer if I never came across one of those again, but wonder whether another breed would just take their place.

 

[Goldenstar]

I think it’s likely they will seek to ban them, but it’s not an easy thing to frame a law that works .
However XL bullies form a small part of the dog population and feature in a disproportionate number of these serious incidents .
They have only been in the country for about a decade and are likely to be pretty inbred and not being bred for the temperament traits you want in domestic pets .
I read this morning the RSPCA does not support a ban they think education is the answer , good luck with that because it’s not going to be easy to educate our way out of this .

 

[MurphysMinder]

The problem with a ban is that they don’t necessarily work . Look at pit bulls, they were banned 30 years ago , so with the breeding restrictions imposed we shouldn’t be seeing them now , but there are loads of “of type” dogs still , generally described as staff x or mastiff x.

 

[splashgirl45]

You’ve only got to look on social media to see this type of dog being filmed next to or all over a baby or young child and everyone cooing and saying how sweet it is, that is the sort of person who has no idea about dog ownership. NO dog should be allowed to get so close to a baby let alone one whose mouth is bigger than the baby’s head. I don’t have children but do have nieces and they were never left alone in the room with my dogs when they were young and when they were babies my dogs were on leads if in the same room. I would rather be too cautious than risk any accidents but it seems many people can’t visualise a potential problem … if they are banned the idiots will crossbreed something else.. the trouble is that soon we will all have to have our dogs muzzled in public and won’t be allowed to let them off lead anywhere but private land .. I hope that doesn’t happen in my lifetime