Gloi
Too little time, too much to read.
They are no longer the favoured breed of tossers.
Another fatal dog attack
- Thread starter SilverLinings
- Start date
Bellaboo18
Well-Known Member
See I hate bsl, it doesn't target the root cause of the problem. I'd much rather see backyards breeders and poor owners being dealt with however, I am uncomfortable about the sheer size of these dogs and the *potential* for them to cause harm. So yes unfortunately, I'd like to see the end of breeding XL anything.
ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
They were never as much of a problem, I think. They weren't so wholly disproportionately responsible for serious damage caused by any one breed dog.
.
Smitty
Well-Known Member
According to the BBC news website, the owner of the two dogs responsible for the death of the man on Thursday, has been bailed. This is apparently after he had two previous warnings concerning these dogs. That's OK then 
. I expect the victim's family are impressed.
Unless people are made more accountable and being penalised by law for their dogs behaviour, we are going to carry on circling the issue.
. I expect the victim's family are impressed.Unless people are made more accountable and being penalised by law for their dogs behaviour, we are going to carry on circling the issue.
CorvusCorax
'It's only a laugh, no harm done'
That's fine, but I've seen it myself and it runs in a certain line of dogs that I'm well acquainted with. If they're unhappy with something (as in, someone took the ball back) and you thought it was resolved, they'll let you know ten or 15 minutes later, when you're not prepared for it, at the back of the van or on the way off the field. Them, not me, I wouldn't touch that line with a barge pole.
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CorvusCorax
'It's only a laugh, no harm done'
In the case of the GSD, they are so heavily used as service dogs, it would be a complete PITA.
I know a police handler in ROI was shouted at for tracking his dog on a 10m line in the park (should have been a 1m line and muzzled if he was an MOP).
They were also more numerous, more historic, and had co-ordinated, long-established and dedicated breed clubs to lobby for them.
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CorvusCorax
'It's only a laugh, no harm done'
Loads of dogs have strong bite pressure. If pits/bullies etc were such good biting dogs, why do they not dominate in the sports where biting a helper is an element?
Lots of tactically deployed dogs don't get trained to out/their handlers carry a break stick or hook so that they don't let go of nasty Mr Terrorist. Again, pits/bullies aren't used that often.
Because it's more than just about "the bite'.
Lots of tactically deployed dogs don't get trained to out/their handlers carry a break stick or hook so that they don't let go of nasty Mr Terrorist. Again, pits/bullies aren't used that often.
Because it's more than just about "the bite'.
Clodagh
Well-Known Member
I was going to answer your first sentence by saving… trainability, steadiness, nerve.
But that’s what you were getting to.
CorvusCorax
'It's only a laugh, no harm done'
FWIW we haven't used dog walkers since the 80s when my mother found out our dogs were being run in the park offleash. One was way too spicy for that.
I also had a very hard time (years) getting a kennel that just....did what I asked them to, I was always getting second guessed then when I came back they told me they either had trouble with my old dog hoarding toys or not giving them back (when I said no toys apart from the one he came with) or he'd been growling at people (I gave explicit instructions on how to deal with him so he wouldn't growl).
The place he goes to now is brilliant and they love him.
One place, even though I said on the form 'don't run him with other dogs' told me blithely he'd had a small dog hanging off each ear!!
I also had a very hard time (years) getting a kennel that just....did what I asked them to, I was always getting second guessed then when I came back they told me they either had trouble with my old dog hoarding toys or not giving them back (when I said no toys apart from the one he came with) or he'd been growling at people (I gave explicit instructions on how to deal with him so he wouldn't growl).
The place he goes to now is brilliant and they love him.
One place, even though I said on the form 'don't run him with other dogs' told me blithely he'd had a small dog hanging off each ear!!
Cortez
Tough but Fair
Do you know how trainable/biddable they (bullies) are? I would imagine that's the determining factor?
Clodagh
Well-Known Member
I would never, under any circumstances I can imagine, let anyone else walk my dogs. They don’t go into kennels either, mainly because I couldn’t afford to board 5 and luckily OH doesn’t do going away.
CorvusCorax
'It's only a laugh, no harm done'
I don't know enough about them TBH but a good sports or service dog will have good nerve, wants to work with you, is trainable, athletic, lots of other factors.
Clodagh
Well-Known Member
And will have been bred for that for many generations, with failures not being used.
Bullies seem to be bred because they are big and scary and come in a range of pretty colours.
CorvusCorax
'It's only a laugh, no harm done'
palo1
Well-Known Member
The 'professionalism' of dog walkers is something that seems quite hazy; I don't think there is any particular regulation for that industry is there? Undoubtedly some dog walkers really are knowledgeable and extremely careful and sensible (one of my friends is a dog walker that I absolutely would trust) but I don't think there is any required knowledge base or even basic related H&S quals related to dog walking is there? That is why the term professional is very confusing and imo very misleading; the term professional usually indicates specific qualifications and a proven knowledge base for that particular sort of work doesn't it?
Sandstone1
Well-Known Member
I have seen some with most awful conformation too. Legs and feet pointing outwards, massive heads too. All problems brought about by human greed. Most of them should never have been bred in the first place.
CorvusCorax
'It's only a laugh, no harm done'
There is little regulation on any dog-related business.
There are loads of 'professional' dog trainers who can't train ivy up a wall.
If you're looking for a dog trainer, ask them to meet you in a public place (not their garden/their own facility) and show you their own dogs
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CorvusCorax
'It's only a laugh, no harm done'
I had no idea that was a thing
.
Popular wisdom says you should never turn your back on a wild canine. An opportunistic predator *will* sometimes take their opportunity when they
believe that their opponent is vulnerable.
Dogs will generally only do what is in their own interests/what they feel will improve their situation/position.
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Lexi 123
Well-Known Member
well anyone who owns a XL bully are doomed as they are going to lose their pets. The police can take any dog they think is a banned dog breed unless they are muzzled but they still take the dog even with it if they think it’s a danger to the public.
oldandgold
Well-Known Member
There is no way a "dog walker" should have been walking 6 dogs, if the article is correct and the dog that killed her was a pit bull then according to the law
it should have been muzzled, I would be surprised if her insurance company (assuming she had insurance) would actually pay out any compensation. So sad,
but the original owners should never have passed the dog on.
Listening to the latest news regarding banning the XL's - it looks like they are going to be registered, neutered, muzzled and on leads and not allowed to be rehomed, but again how many of these dogs have broken away from owners using unsuitable collars, leads etc.
it should have been muzzled, I would be surprised if her insurance company (assuming she had insurance) would actually pay out any compensation. So sad,
but the original owners should never have passed the dog on.
Listening to the latest news regarding banning the XL's - it looks like they are going to be registered, neutered, muzzled and on leads and not allowed to be rehomed, but again how many of these dogs have broken away from owners using unsuitable collars, leads etc.
CorvusCorax
'It's only a laugh, no harm done'
What you have described below is the current terms of the DDA of 1991. And what you have described above is how it doesn't work.
The UK Government and police can barely carry out basic daily functions, how on earth will this be enforced and administrated?
Sandstone1
Well-Known Member
Dog walking in particular seems to have no regulation anyone can set up as a dog walker. I know there are some good ones who take the time to do first aid courses and get insurance etc but there is no legal requirement for it. If you are walking someones dog you are responsible for that dogs behaviour so insurance should be a priority. Some experience in handling dogs and knowledge of body language plus a maximum number of dogs walked together would be a good start.There little regulation on any dog-related business.
There are loads of 'professional' dog trainers who can't train ivy up a wall.
If you're looking for a dog trainer, ask them to meet you in a public place (not their garden/their own facility) and show you their own dogs
equinerebel
Well-Known Member
This is one thing I’m glad about with the ban I think. That less incredibly unhealthy dogs will be bred for human status.
After the ban was announced, I googled some XL bully breeders and it was incredibly depressing.
millikins
Well-Known Member
Something I find very alarming in that article is that given the choice of attacking the terrier or any of the other 7 dogs with the dog walker, all of whom except possibly the large, hairy Leonberger would have been easier targets, this dog twice chose to attack humans. Is this the difference between pit bulls, XL bullies and "normal" dogs.
cobgoblin
Bugrit! Millennium hand and shrimp.
Challenging the pack leader.
CorvusCorax
'It's only a laugh, no harm done'
Two different types of bites though.
Biting the terrier owner sounds like a mixture of frustration and redirection (removal of prey item/I can't have terrier so I'll bite derriere).
It was a punch to the butt rather than a sustained attack and I've had a few of those. It's easy/dog's head level.
The second sounds like it was a culmination of weeks of living in a grey environment with no rules (you can't love dogs like these out of their behaviour), where he'd already got away with two 'go away and leave me alones' and had had enough. Plus he had a gang around him so competition AND back-up. Just a recipe for disaster.
I'm not excusing anything I'm just very interested in how bites occur and what's behind them and there's a bit of a knowledge gap there, even amongst experienced dog owners.
Biting the terrier owner sounds like a mixture of frustration and redirection (removal of prey item/I can't have terrier so I'll bite derriere).
It was a punch to the butt rather than a sustained attack and I've had a few of those. It's easy/dog's head level.
The second sounds like it was a culmination of weeks of living in a grey environment with no rules (you can't love dogs like these out of their behaviour), where he'd already got away with two 'go away and leave me alones' and had had enough. Plus he had a gang around him so competition AND back-up. Just a recipe for disaster.
I'm not excusing anything I'm just very interested in how bites occur and what's behind them and there's a bit of a knowledge gap there, even amongst experienced dog owners.
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
The video footage of the attack on the eleven year old girl was terrifying the dog chased and took down a man on the garage forecourt then dragged him with ease .
Frightening amount of power .
Frightening amount of power .
CorvusCorax
'It's only a laugh, no harm done'
It doesn't help when you have some martial arts/self defence 'expert' in the MEN advising people to run away from a dog
For the love of God, don't run unless you can comfortably beat the dog to a safe place (up high or behind a door or barrier) and don't make high pitched noises.
I know it's human nature and we can't control our innate responses but running/screaming/struggling will often make a certain type of dog go in harder.
This isn't about victim blaming BTW it's about minimising injury if any of yourselves find yourself in that situation.
For the love of God, don't run unless you can comfortably beat the dog to a safe place (up high or behind a door or barrier) and don't make high pitched noises.
I know it's human nature and we can't control our innate responses but running/screaming/struggling will often make a certain type of dog go in harder.
This isn't about victim blaming BTW it's about minimising injury if any of yourselves find yourself in that situation.
CorvusCorax
'It's only a laugh, no harm done'
Sorry it's me again 
When I was a kid we had a couple of visits to school from the police dog handlers who did a display and a talk (without the dogs, we weren't allowed near them) where they would advise young kids how and how not to behave around dogs. I'd say this was at the height of the German Breeds Paranoia (GSD/Dobe/Rott) in the 80s.
I'm guessing these talks don't happen so often now/there's not so much scope for it in terms of H&S and policing being cut to the bone.
Anyhoo....do any agencies do this sort of thing now, and do they actually focus on the fact that dogs are dogs, and not all are friendly and fluffy and predictable and huggy and made of porcelain? Because I think a lot of people have fallen down the wormhole of 'no bad dogs/just bad owners'/'it's how they're raised'/'you can cure any behaviour with love and biscuits'. And that doesn't just apply to bullies.
When I was a kid we had a couple of visits to school from the police dog handlers who did a display and a talk (without the dogs, we weren't allowed near them) where they would advise young kids how and how not to behave around dogs. I'd say this was at the height of the German Breeds Paranoia (GSD/Dobe/Rott) in the 80s.
I'm guessing these talks don't happen so often now/there's not so much scope for it in terms of H&S and policing being cut to the bone.
Anyhoo....do any agencies do this sort of thing now, and do they actually focus on the fact that dogs are dogs, and not all are friendly and fluffy and predictable and huggy and made of porcelain? Because I think a lot of people have fallen down the wormhole of 'no bad dogs/just bad owners'/'it's how they're raised'/'you can cure any behaviour with love and biscuits'. And that doesn't just apply to bullies.
skinnydipper
Well-Known Member
Sorry it's me again
When I was a kid we had a couple of visits to school from the police dog handlers who did a display and a talk (without the dogs, we weren't allowed near them) where they would advise young kids how and how not to behave around dogs. I'd say this was at the height of the German Breeds Paranoia (GSD/Dobe/Rott) in the 80s.
I'm guessing these talks don't happen so often now/there's not so much scope for it in terms of H&S and policing being cut to the bone.
Anyhoo....do any agencies do this sort of thing now, and do they actually focus on the fact that dogs are dogs, and not all are friendly and fluffy and predictable and huggy and made of porcelain? Because I think a lot of people have fallen down the wormhole of 'no bad dogs/just bad owners'/'it's how they're raised'/'you can cure any behaviour with love and biscuits'.
I was taught how to behave around dogs by my mam. She/grandparents had German Shepherds.