Another fatal dog attack

[CanteringCarrot]

well anyone who owns a XL bully are doomed as they are going to lose their pets. The police can take any dog they think is a banned dog breed unless they are muzzled but they still take the dog even with it if they think it’s a danger to the public.

I generally find that a majority of the citizens in the UK are fine with giving up personal freedoms if it's for a good cause and/or for safety of the public. Those that may suffer the consequences that aren't necessarily deserving of it, are merely collateral damage.

Some of the trust that certain laws or regulations will work seems disproportionate to me at times.

Many societies can't seem to get into the meat of things, due to a variety of reasons, including a lack of resources. It's easier to make blanket rules, or take a blunt approach to things. No matter though, it keeps those that work in the human rights courts employed.

Anyway, there will probably be a ban, and while it may decrease some numbers, it won't solve the entire problem, but for some, if it solves even a tiny slice of it, that's enough. Solving the larger problem would just be too much.

It's not surprising that once again animals will suffer did to humans. We're selfish idiots. For a being with such mental capabilites, we do progress rather slow!

 

[CanteringCarrot]

People don't know how to behave around their own kind, nevermind other animals.

I bring my dog(s) out in public frequently and some people are so out of touch. I will say it's better in Germany vs the US or UK, in MY experience.

 

[CorvusCorax]

I was taught how to behave around dogs by my mam. She/grandparents had German Shepherds.

Me too, but not every family has dogs.

 

[CorvusCorax]

People don't know how to behave around their own kind, nevermind other animals.

I bring my dog(s) out in public frequently and some people are so out of touch. I will say it's better in Germany vs the US or UK, in MY experience.

Hard agree on all points

Whilst I think there's a negative swing caused by PETA-influenced AR campaigning, as a generalisation the German model is a good template for breeding/testing/registering/keeping dogs IMO.

 

[skinnydipper]

Me too, but not every family has dogs.

I wonder if there are any books for educating children (and their parents) about dogs. Haven't checked.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

Hard agree on all points

Whilst I think there's a negative swing caused by PETA-influenced AR campaigning, as a generalisation the German model is a good template for breeding/testing/registering/keeping dogs IMO.

Granted, German dog shelters are still overrun with certain types of dogs, so you still have idiots or people/dogs that have ended up in bad situations.

I know someone that has Cane Corso's that got one due to it being abandoned (tied on the side of the road and left) and another (beautiful specimen of the breed, nice temperament too) that was dropped off and tied to the shelter gates. So there are issues there. On the whole though, Germans are "smarter" about dog related things.

Although there are cultural differences, it's still a decent idea to look at how other countries do things. Again though, some things work better just due to culture or established norms.

 

[Clodagh]

British people are generally just the pits, tbh.
And I’m British which hopefully doesn’t make that a racist comment.
We believe everything we are told, we think we can have it all with no compromises and FHS that we should ever be considered responsible for our own actions.
I’m sure it’s not just Brits, but many other countries seem to have a more developed sense of society.

 

[SilverLinings]

British people are generally just the pits, tbh.
And I’m British which hopefully doesn’t make that a racist comment.
We believe everything we are told, we think we can have it all with no compromises and FHS that we should ever be considered responsible for our own actions.
I’m sure it’s not just Brits, but many other countries seem to have a more developed sense of society.

Sorry Clodagh but my brain isn't working- what do you mean by 'FHS'? I agree with your sentiment about the selfishness of great swathes of the British population these days though.

 

[Clodagh]

For heavens sake.

 

[SilverLinings]

For heavens sake.

Ahh, that makes sense! I'm sure that's an abbreviation I can make good use of too...

 

[CanteringCarrot]

British people are generally just the pits, tbh.
And I’m British which hopefully doesn’t make that a racist comment.
We believe everything we are told, we think we can have it all with no compromises and FHS that we should ever be considered responsible for our own actions.
I’m sure it’s not just Brits, but many other countries seem to have a more developed sense of society.

I agree.

I've definitely noticed this.

Edit: I've brought this up before, especially during Covid, and perhaps not so tactfully, and it wasn't all that well received

 

[twiggy2]

Southend Dog Training on Reels | southenddogtraining · Original-Audio

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Not sure if that will work but if it does watch with caution, his language is colourful, he makes some good points

 

[SilverLinings]

I agree.

I've definitely noticed this.

Edit: I've brought this up before, especially during Covid, and perhaps not so tactfully, and it wasn't all that well received

I definitely think it's got worse since covid, despite everyone thinking the pandemic would pull people together. I work in healthcare and we are having to deal with a higher number of aggressive patients (well, parents as its paeds), and and increasing number take no responsibility for the care and wellbeing of their children. Parents of morbidly obese children as young as 4yrs old say it's nothing to do with them (despite the fact the children aren't doing the shopping and can't even reachmost of the kitchen cupboards), and we have serious problems with parents not carrying out physio or other prescribed treatments with their ill children because apparently it's not their problem, it's 'someone' else's responsibility.

As people have commented on various threads in AAD, it is also seen in the behaviour and attitude of an increasing number of dog owners, who don't pick up after their dogs, allow their dogs to roam and be aggressive, and happily leave their distressed dog howling loudly at home all day whilst they $od off to work.

I don't know why we are ending up with such a large number of adults who have no sense of responsibility, and who think that problems (often of their creation) will always be fixed by some magical 'other' person. This can be seen in the reaction of a lot of bully owners to the proposed ban, and in the large number of irresponsible photos on SM of large/powerful dogs lying or 'playing' with babies.

 

[MurphysMinder]

I would never, under any circumstances I can imagine, let anyone else walk my dogs. They don’t go into kennels either, mainly because I couldn’t afford to board 5 and luckily OH doesn’t do going away.

I'm the same. I have one friend who I trust to walk my dogs, she has trained dogs to a far higher level than mine are, and my dogs love her. Anyone else looking after my dogs is told to just take them in the garden, or fully fenced field, and that is it.

 

[MurphysMinder]

Sorry it's me again

When I was a kid we had a couple of visits to school from the police dog handlers who did a display and a talk (without the dogs, we weren't allowed near them) where they would advise young kids how and how not to behave around dogs. I'd say this was at the height of the German Breeds Paranoia (GSD/Dobe/Rott) in the 80s.

I'm guessing these talks don't happen so often now/there's not so much scope for it in terms of H&S and policing being cut to the bone.

Anyhoo....do any agencies do this sort of thing now, and do they actually focus on the fact that dogs are dogs, and not all are friendly and fluffy and predictable and huggy and made of porcelain? Because I think a lot of people have fallen down the wormhole of 'no bad dogs/just bad owners'/'it's how they're raised'/'you can cure any behaviour with love and biscuits'. And that doesn't just apply to bullies.

When my kids were at the local village school in the 90s I used to take dogs in to meet the children often.
Last week a friends 8 year old daughter qualified to compete at a national championships, she goes to the same school. Her mother asked if the school would be interested for the child to give a little demo to the other pupils as a "show and tell". She was told no it would be against h & s, the dog is a 13 year old min poodle so not exactly a raging beast.

 

[SilverLinings]

I'm the same. I have one friend who I trust to walk my dogs, she has trained dogs to a far higher level than mine are, and my dogs love her. Anyone else looking after my dogs is told to just take them in the garden, or fully fenced field, and that is it.

It is something that makes me very wary of having dogs again. I had a good set up previously as I lived near a non-working relative who would have my dogs when I was at work, and I would have them plus hers at weekends and when she went away. After I lost my last one I moved away, and was aiming to build kennels at the next house and arrange a dog walker. I think that I would only potentially be comfortable with that if I have a large garden and the walker just runs them on the property. I realise there are some good dog walkers, but I have seen some really awful ones who are totally different when the dogs' owners are around.

 

[J&T]

It doesn't help when you have some martial arts/self defence 'expert' in the MEN advising people to run away from a dog

For the love of God, don't run unless you can comfortably beat the dog to a safe place (up high or behind a door or barrier) and don't make high pitched noises.

I know it's human nature and we can't control our innate responses but running/screaming/struggling will often make a certain type of dog go in harder.

This isn't about victim blaming BTW it's about minimising injury if any of yourselves find yourself in that situation.

What is your advice if someone didn't run or scream and just stayed still but the dog still grabbed hold of them and proceeded to attack them how can they try to stay alive while a dog is attacking them especially the strength these XL bully's have?

 

[CorvusCorax]

I wonder if there are any books for educating children (and their parents) about dogs. Haven't checked.

That takes into account literacy levels, willingness to engage and appetite for reading. A talk is much more accessible for everyone.

 

[Clodagh]

What is your advice if someone didn't run or scream and just stayed still but the dog still grabbed hold of them and proceeded to attack them how can they try to stay alive while a dog is attacking them especially the strength these XL bully's have?

I’m not qualified to advise others but try to keep calm, don’t make a noise and don’t pull against it, don’t let people try to pull it off. It’s so unlikely that would ever happen though! You need to strangle them I think, hope they are wearing a collar and there’s a strong man or someone with a stick they can twist it with.

 

[CorvusCorax]

What is your advice if someone didn't run or scream and just stayed still but the dog still grabbed hold of them and proceeded to attack them how can they try to stay alive while a dog is attacking them especially the strength these XL bully's have?

It's really hard to advise on something like this because we're all human and fight/flight/freeze is a natural reaction.
It's unlikely for a dog to target a non moving target if there is a moving target available. A police handler will often tell you that if a crim stands still but someone else runs, the dog will go for the runner.
All I can say is that sometimes it's best to go floppy/go with it/not fight - it's the struggling and fighting that creates tearing injuries, if you see a dog with prey, generally once it goes still, so does the dog's head, for example I would never ask for a toy or a ball back from the dog's mouth by pulling it in the opposite direction. But again our behaviour in these situations is often instinctual.
Another alternative is that if you can and you have time, if you have anything at all on your person, try and get that into the dog's mouth instead or use it as a barrier.

 

[splashgirl45]

That little boy who was kicking his football didn’t run away as he didn’t see it till it was on him , I just hope I don’t get involved with one of those dogs

 

[J&T]

It's really hard to advise on something like this because we're all human and fight/flight/freeze is a natural reaction.
It's unlikely for a dog to target a non moving target if there is a moving target available. A police handler will often tell you that if a crim stands still but someone else runs, the dog will go for the runner.
All I can say is that sometimes it's best to go floppy/go with it/not fight - it's the struggling and fighting that creates tearing injuries, if you see a dog with prey, generally once it goes still, so does the dog's head, for example I would never ask for a toy or a ball back from the dog's mouth by pulling it in the opposite direction. But again our behaviour in these situations is often instinctual.
Another alternative is that if you can and you have time, if you have anything at all on your person, try and get that into the dog's mouth instead or use it as a barrier.

Thank you for your reply. I might start walking with a large stick or umbrella from now. I have become scared since all these attacks to even go out. I hate idiot and dangerous owners with a passion.

 

[CorvusCorax]

That little boy who was kicking his football didn’t run away as he didn’t see it till it was on him , I just hope I don’t get involved with one of those dogs

He was moving erratically and playing with a ball. Again, not justifying it at all, but I can see why he was an attractive target for a dog like that. The dog doesn't think 'human child playing with ball' the dog thinks 'fast moving prey item, must stop it moving'.

 

[CorvusCorax]

Thank you for your reply. I might start walking with a large stick or umbrella from now. I have become scared since all these attacks to even go out. I hate idiot and dangerous owners with a passion.

I carry a slip line, long chain, several balls and usually some food in my pockets. For my own dogs, but, ya know....

 

[Clodagh]

I used to do sone horses for a woman that had a dogue de Bordeaux x dog. He was absolutely huge. If you sat in a chair and he sat next to you, you were eye to eye. His head was not much smaller than my torso. He had pale yellow eyes. The first day I got there she had forgotten to switch the electricity on to the stables so I went into the garden to do so. While I was there she let the dogs out, Drum and a small fluffy. Drum came at me, baying. Thankfully he just bayed at my face. I just reacted and completely froze, yet tried to look relaxed, looked up not at him and kept quiet. Thankfully his owner came very quickly round the corner and called him off. I was very lucky, if she hadn’t also been calm I’m sure he’d have had me. He was actually a gorgeous goof ball when you knew him.

 

[CorvusCorax]

The last time I got bit I was standing side on to the dog, not acknowledging it at all, when he gave me a dart on the thigh and ripped a hole in my trousers. I've since learned that if I'd gone into him and chased him down, he'd have legged it as he's a coward, but I was in a constrained space, he had no collar on, I didn't know him well enough to take the chance.
Plus he could have learned that humans are even scarier than he thought they were, for good or ill.

Raging, I love those trousers.

 

[Clodagh]

The last time I got bit I was standing side on to the dog, not acknowledging it at all, when he gave me a dart on the thigh and ripped a hole in my trousers. I've since learned that if I'd gone into him and chased him down, he'd have legged it as he's a coward, but I was in a constrained space, he had no collar on, I didn't know him well enough to take the chance.
Plus he could have learned that humans are even scarier than he thought they were, for good or ill.

Raging, I love those trousers.

You could patch them?

 

[CorvusCorax]

You could patch them?

I think it's already been established that I'm not a domestic goddess. I'm still wearing them, I like to feel the wind on my thighs.

 

[skinnydipper]

When I was a kid we had a couple of visits to school from the police dog handlers who did a display and a talk (without the dogs, we weren't allowed near them) where they would advise young kids how and how not to behave around dogs. I'd say this was at the height of the German Breeds Paranoia (GSD/Dobe/Rott) in the 80s.

That takes into account literacy levels, willingness to engage and appetite for reading. A talk is much more accessible for everyone.

When I attended school, a very long time ago, the teacher used to read to us and we used to read to the teacher. I wonder if a book like this on the classroom bookshelf would be helpful.

Don't know how good it is.

From Amazon:

May I Pet Your Dog?: The How-To Guide for Kids Meeting Dogs (and Dogs Meeting Kids)

"Children encounter dogs wherever they go: in the park, on the sidewalk, at their friends' homes. Sometimes it's love at first sight, on both sides--but not always. The right way for a child to approach a dog to ensure that the first connection is a complete success begins with this question to the owner: "May I pet your dog?" Using Harry the dachshund as a gentle guide, Stephanie Calmenson addresses this valuable yet overlooked topic with care and precision, and Jan Ormerod's warm illustrations portray a wide variety of breeds and personalities and depict situations that are realistic but never scary. Unique and straightforward, this is the essential guide to bringing children and dogs together--for kids and parents alike."

 

[CorvusCorax]

When I attended school, a very long time ago, the teacher used to read to us and we used to read to the teacher. I wonder if a book like this on the classroom bookshelf would be helpful.

Don't know how good it is.

From Amazon:

May I Pet Your Dog?: The How-To Guide for Kids Meeting Dogs (and Dogs Meeting Kids)

"Children encounter dogs wherever they go: in the park, on the sidewalk, at their friends' homes. Sometimes it's love at first sight, on both sides--but not always. The right way for a child to approach a dog to ensure that the first connection is a complete success begins with this question to the owner: "May I pet your dog?" Using Harry the dachshund as a gentle guide, Stephanie Calmenson addresses this valuable yet overlooked topic with care and precision, and Jan Ormerod's warm illustrations portray a wide variety of breeds and personalities and depict situations that are realistic but never scary. Unique and straightforward, this is the essential guide to bringing children and dogs together--for kids and parents alike."

Early years literacy is hugely important, some people in this family deal with the topic on a daily basis but...whilst books and reading are very important, but what works for one doesn't work for all.