Another fatal dog attack

[Chucho]

Apologies if already posted, I’m not caught up. Breed standard and owner guidelines now published for the impending ban on Gov.uk

It reads very sensibly. The obvious elephant in the room is that it relies on the DDA being implemented properly to have any impact.

"Under the Dangerous Dogs Act, people can be put in prison for up to 14 years, be disqualified from ownership or their dangerous dogs can be euthanised."

Has anyone ever been imprisoned under the Act?

 

[Smitty]

Ok, can't do the link but a male model has been imprisoned for four months after his two XL bullies attacked a man's dog. He also has to pay £150 compensation and both dogs have been destroyed. It is not clear what he is charged with, but I suspect it is dogs dangerously out of control as neither were on leads.

 

[Cinnamontoast]

Daily Mail link, sorry. Owner sounds like a delight.

Male model whose two XL Bully dogs carried out frenzied attack jailed

Jordan Callender, 26, of Hornby Road in Stretford, Manchester was walking the two XL Bully dogs named Zeus and Thor on Warwick Avenue in Old Trafford when the attack took place.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Smitty]

Hopefully this will act as a warning to people that out of control dogs are being taken seriously. I cannot imagine the horror and pain people are enduring with these attacks. I am amazed that bystanders are brave enough to wade in and try to help.

Not sure I would tackle one of these dogs with a tennis racquet though ...

 

[AmyMay]

£150 seems a wholly inadequate amount of compensation

 

[sarah.oxford]

It's a ridiculously small amount

 

[Smitty]

I agree, but I can't recall seeing a prison sentence or compensation before so at least it's moving in the right direction.

I think £5000 would be a reasonable amount, and that is if there is no life changing physical damage.

 

[splashgirl45]

Agree Amymay , and 4 months isn’t very long for an attack that could have been fatal if a child had been with the husky’s owner. Glad the judge banned him from keeping dogs and ordering that the dogs were PTS

 

[Kunoichi73]

I wonder if the police should run campaigns like they do with the BHS go slow thing. They could have a blitz of parks and beaches and issue warnings or fixed penalties or something to people whose dogs are not on leads or out of control either off lead or on ridiculously long extendable leads.

 

[SilverLinings]

I have just read the details of the ban on the gov't page (link posted above by @blackcob), and I am disappointed by this bit:

"Owners may choose to have their dog put to sleep by a vet, with compensation provided to help with these costs. Further details on how to apply for compensation and the evidence required to make a claim will be provided soon."

So the taxpayer will be providing financial compensation to the owners of XLBs who are too lazy (and care so little about their dog) to train them to wear a lead and muzzle, and/or too tight to pay for neutering and registration. Every dog owner goes into ownership knowing that at some point (unless a fatal accident occurs) they will have to PTS their dog, so why are the rest of us expected to pay for it in this case? They aren't being forced to PTS, they are choosing it.

I accept that the vast majority of XLB owners didn't know the breed would be banned when they bought their dog, but they only have to fill in a form, have it neutered and put a lead and muzzle on it when in public FGS. Plenty of other dog owners already neuter, use a lead and a muzzle (e.g. sighthound owners) so it is hardly difficult.

It isn't clear what is meant by 'compensation', but I hope it doesn't include the purchase cost of the dog as earlier in the year they were selling for several thousand pounds, more for breeding prospects and exotic colours.

I am also concerned that the type of person who will PTS and claim compensation will use the money to go out and buy another breed, and that many of them will be backyard breeders who just perpetuate their appalling practices with a different type of dog

 

[splashgirl45]

I have just read the details of the ban on the gov't page (link posted above by @blackcob), and I am disappointed by this bit:

"Owners may choose to have their dog put to sleep by a vet, with compensation provided to help with these costs. Further details on how to apply for compensation and the evidence required to make a claim will be provided soon."

So the taxpayer will be providing financial compensation to the owners of XLBs who are too lazy (and care so little about their dog) to train them to wear a lead and muzzle, and/or too tight to pay for neutering and registration. Every dog owner goes into ownership knowing that at some point (unless a fatal accident occurs) they will have to PTS their dog, so why are the rest of us expected to pay for it in this case? They aren't being forced to PTS, they are choosing it.

I accept that the vast majority of XLB owners didn't know the breed would be banned when they bought their dog, but they only have to fill in a form, have it neutered and put a lead and muzzle on it when in public FGS. Plenty of other dog owners already neuter, use a lead and a muzzle (e.g. sighthound owners) so it is hardly difficult.

It isn't clear what is meant by 'compensation', but I hope it doesn't include the purchase cost of the dog as earlier in the year they were selling for several thousand pounds, more for breeding prospects and exotic colours.

I am also concerned that the type of person who will PTS and claim compensation will use the money to go out and buy another breed, and that many of them will be backyard breeders who just perpetuate their appalling practices with a different type of dog

I’ve just read that as well, seems a bit ludicrous as it’s a choice they make if they don’t want to be responsible dog owners, i wonder if it’s to stop people dumping them?

 

[blackcob]

Giving up an XL Bully dog to be euthanised​

If you choose not to keep your XL Bully dog, you should take it to a registered vet for it to be euthanised.


You can claim £200 compensation towards the costs.


You and your vet will need to fill in a compensation form to make a claim.


Defra will provide more information on how to apply for compensation soon.

At our place that would cover the euthanasia only, not disposal or cremation costs.

 

[SilverLinings]

It is definitely preferable to XLBs being dumped (or killed by the owner), but it riles me that those of us who pay tax will be subsidising the laziness of others. I hope the compensation will be paid directly to the vets etc, and not to the owners, as CV19 showed that gov't comp schemes are ripe for defrauding.

Most of the chatter in the press seems to be from owners who profess their 'love' for their dogs, so hopefully there won't be too many who PTS through laziness, but I suspect that in reality there are quite a few who don't really care about their dogs (this applies to other breeds too).

 

[cbmcts]

The definition is quite broad isn't it? There's many a mastiffy/molossus type or cross that would fall under that...but I suppose it has to be broad as XLBs are just mutant mongrels really.

I guess the compensation is along the same principle as when cows are destroyed when they test positive for TB with animals being property and all.

Now just to hope that it will actually make a difference in the long term. Sadly I'm not convinced that it will. XLBs while they are a huge problem are not the only problem dog out there are evidenced above. There really does need to be a huge change in all dog owners attitude to their responsibilities. Just because it's fluffy don't mean it ain't got teeth.

 

[splashgirl45]

The definition is quite broad isn't it? There's many a mastiffy/molossus type or cross that would fall under that...but I suppose it has to be broad as XLBs are just mutant mongrels really.

I guess the compensation is along the same principle as when cows are destroyed when they test positive for TB with animals being property and all.

Now just to hope that it will actually make a difference in the long term. Sadly I'm not convinced that it will. XLBs while they are a huge problem are not the only problem dog out there are evidenced above. There really does need to be a huge change in all dog owners attitude to their responsibilities. Just because it's fluffy don't mean it ain't got teeth.

I agree about the new dog owning public not knowing or realising the all dogs pose a threat to children no matter how pretty and friendly they seem. One of the things that worry me are the idiots who brand these dogs as good family dogs and then the owners post pics of their huge dogs mouth close to the babies head, it makes me cringe but thousands of people see these posts on social media and think that is ok.. I class myself as an old fashioned dog owner and my dogs were never left alone with any children under 12 because any dog can turn, I have had lurchers and terriers and not bull breeds but they can still inflict a bad wound and although I was 99% sure they wouldn’t bite there is always a chance

 

[SilverLinings]

As well as all the pandemic puppy purchases I think social media probably has a large part to play in the proliferation of bad/ignorant dog owners around today. I certainly think that there are dog owners out there who wouldn't have bought a dog if they hadn't seen so many cute/macho posts of dogs online, and they also wouldn't have bought a dog if they weren't then able to post their own posed pictures.

If you aren't interested in dog training (or don't know it's a thing) then if you look online there aren't a lot of SM posts about the realities of dog ownership, they are more a demonstration of the likes you can get for the photos. Those sorts of posters don't talk about sleepless nights with puppies, the costs, the time and effort required to train your dog, possible behaviour problems (or they are posted as being 'funny'), routine costs such as worming and vaccinating (and their importance) or about ill health (except when setting up a GoFundMe page).

I think that quite a lot of pandemic puppy buyers thought dog ownership was all sunshine and roses and cute instagram pics, and that dogs are an accessory that requires minimal input or effort except when you choose to engage with them. They just see having a dog as another aspect of their online persona, like posting photos of your lunch or staged photos of your 'luxury' holiday in the south of France (but actually Skegness). Unfortunately they are the sort of people who shouldn't have bought an animal, and in many cases probably won't get another dog once the current one dies, but I pity the dogs in the meantime.

 

[SilverLinings]

So looking at the gov't definition of the breed, how much do you reckon there are already breeders out there planning to breed up standard bullys to measure in at 19.5ins (18.5 for bitches)? That's still a very powerful dog; I'm not sure I'd feel any safer just because the dog was half a centimetre under-height. I'm glad there is no upper height though, so no license to breed monsters.

Height​

• Adult male from 20in (51 cm) at the withers
• Adult female from 19in (48cm) at the withers

 

[Cinnamontoast]

At our place that would cover the euthanasia only, not disposal or cremation costs.

Lot cheaper to buy a muzzle.

Shall we stop saying that the owners are all terrible because they're going to euthanise/are too lazy to train the dog to a muzzle etc? Give them a chance to be responsible before condemning them for something they haven't yet done!

 

[Cinnamontoast]

So looking at the gov't definition of the breed, how much do you reckon there are already breeders out there planning to breed up standard bullys to measure in at 19.5ins (18.5 for bitches)? That's still a very powerful dog; I'm not sure I'd feel any safer just because the dog was half a centimetre under-height. I'm glad there is no upper height though, so no license to breed monsters.

Height​

• Adult male from 20in (51 cm) at the withers
• Adult female from 19in (48cm) at the withers

I wonder if owners of large staffies/mastiffs are going to be panicking. There are a lot of similarities across the breeds. I wonder if they'll become scarce?

 

[skinnydipper]

Shall we stop saying that the owners are terrible because they're going to euthanise/are too lazy to train the dog to a muzzle etc? Give them a chance to be responsible before condemning them for something they haven't yet done!

They are getting dumped left, right and centre. Some rescues are overrun with them.

Then there is the 14 month old for sale for £25 as he is too heavy for the owners to walk and needs daily exercise.

 

[SilverLinings]

Lot cheaper to buy a muzzle.

Shall we stop saying that the owners are terrible because they're going to euthanise/are too lazy to train the dog to a muzzle etc? Give them a chance to be responsible before condemning them for something they haven't yet done!

I certainly don't think all or even most owners will opt for PTS, but I suspect some will. The same ones who already appear to care very little about their dogs, and IMO it won't necessarily be the worst outcome for the dogs (again, this could be applied to all breeds).

I am sure there are lots of owners out there who WILL muzzle-train and obey the rules

 

[SilverLinings]

I'm pleased that dogs aren't being sold for pennys, but I am surprised there are still a lot of puppies for sale for £1k plus (these weren't the only ones I found at £1k or over):

XL Bully puppies | in Plymouth, Devon | Gumtree

4 x male, 4 x female XL bully puppies, 8 weeks old. Excellent bloodlines, ABKC registered. Ready to go in 1 week. Used to children, dogs and being handled. Price can be negotiated. £1500 for females and £1300 for males. Collection from Plymouth.

www.gumtree.com

American XL bully pups for sale | in Gilmerton, Edinburgh | Gumtree

Top quality, well bred American XL bully pups for sale , 20 weeks old. Top bloodlines . Looking for their forever homes. Been brought up in a loving family home around kids . Great temperaments. We have 3 males and 1 female left prices starting at £1500 2nd vaccination Vet

www.gumtree.com

Beautiful litter of XL bullies need loving homes | in Clapham, London | Gumtree

We have a litter of 5 male and 2 female puppies. Both sire and dam are Embark clear. Puppies have been wormed and de-flead and will have had their first vaccinations. They are all microchipped too. They are 90% housetrained. Beautiful colours. These puppies will fly out the

www.gumtree.com

I only looked through the first four pages but apart from one at £350 the cheapest started at £400 and that was for adult dogs. There seems to be a lot more adult dogs up for sale than previously, and quite a few of the bitches look like they've been used as breeding machines and in several cases multiple adult bitches are being sold by a single seller

There are still some 'interesting' crosses including a cane corso x XLB and several GSD x XLB.

 

[Chucho]

I don't think its right to call all XLBs who PTS lazy. I hope that anyone who has any doubt about their XLBs temperament would take the PTS option. Certainly less lazy and more difficult emotionally than dumping them on the street.

 

[skinnydipper]

Then there is the 14 month old for sale for £25 as he is too heavy for the owners to walk and needs daily exercise.

Scroll down on this page for his advert.

American Bully puppies for sale | Pets4Homes

Find 137 American Bully puppies for sale on Pets4Homes - UK’s largest pet classifieds site to buy and sell puppies near you.

www.pets4homes.co.uk

 

[SilverLinings]

I don't think its right to call all XLBs who PTS lazy. I hope that anyone who has any doubt about their XLBs temperament would take the PTS option. Certainly less lazy and more difficult emotionally than dumping them on the street.

Just to clarify, I don't think that everyone who may chose to PTS is lazy, some may feel they no longer trust their dog after all the attacks in the press, or be worried because they are expecting a baby etc. It's the ones who do PTS through laziness (as in not wanting to bother with a muzzle and lead) who I resent being paid compensation.

Regarding PTS, it is a better fate than being dumped or remaining in a home that doesn't meet your needs. And if any owners are unsure about their XLBs temperament, or if it has previously shown aggression then they are being responsible by considering PTS considering how powerful (and apparently aggressive in some cases) this breed is.

And as I've said before, numpty owners exist with all breeds of dog, as do good and responsible owners

 

[SilverLinings]

Scroll down on this page for his advert.

American Bully puppies for sale | Pets4Homes

Find 137 American Bully puppies for sale on Pets4Homes - UK’s largest pet classifieds site to buy and sell puppies near you.

www.pets4homes.co.uk

It is good they are upfront about the fact he isn't used to children. As he is 5st and too much for the current owners to walk he is going to need a strong/big owner, or someone with a large confined outdoor space at home where they can properly lead train him. It certainly demonstrates how owners have no chance restraining this breed if they decide to take off and head for trouble, so it is great the ban will require muzzle use. At £25 God knows who will end up with him as a pity purchase/impulse buy.

Interestingly that site has dogs at much lower prices than Gumtree. I've never looked to buy an animal from either site so don't know if that is usually the case?

 

[skinnydipper]

As he is 5st and too much for the current owners to walk he is going to need a strong/big owner, or someone with a large confined outdoor space at home where they can properly lead train him. It certainly demonstrates how owners have no chance restraining this breed if they decide to take off and head for trouble, so it is great the ban will require muzzle use. At £25 God knows who will end up with him as a pity purchase/impulse buy.

Pet viewable with mother. You would think they should have known he was going to be a big strong boy.

 

[conniegirl]

I have just read the details of the ban on the gov't page (link posted above by @blackcob), and I am disappointed by this bit:

"Owners may choose to have their dog put to sleep by a vet, with compensation provided to help with these costs. Further details on how to apply for compensation and the evidence required to make a claim will be provided soon."

So the taxpayer will be providing financial compensation to the owners of XLBs who are too lazy (and care so little about their dog) to train them to wear a lead and muzzle, and/or too tight to pay for neutering and registration. Every dog owner goes into ownership knowing that at some point (unless a fatal accident occurs) they will have to PTS their dog, so why are the rest of us expected to pay for it in this case? They aren't being forced to PTS, they are choosing it.

I accept that the vast majority of XLB owners didn't know the breed would be banned when they bought their dog, but they only have to fill in a form, have it neutered and put a lead and muzzle on it when in public FGS. Plenty of other dog owners already neuter, use a lead and a muzzle (e.g. sighthound owners) so it is hardly difficult.

It isn't clear what is meant by 'compensation', but I hope it doesn't include the purchase cost of the dog as earlier in the year they were selling for several thousand pounds, more for breeding prospects and exotic colours.

I am also concerned that the type of person who will PTS and claim compensation will use the money to go out and buy another breed, and that many of them will be backyard breeders who just perpetuate their appalling practices with a different type of dog

The compensation is only up to £200 to cover the cost of euthanasia. It has to be paid out first and then claimed back afterwards with a signed form from the vet.

Eminently preferable to them being dumped to roam the streets because owners cant afford to PTS

 

[splashgirl45]

Scroll down on this page for his advert.

American Bully puppies for sale | Pets4Homes

Find 137 American Bully puppies for sale on Pets4Homes - UK’s largest pet classifieds site to buy and sell puppies near you.

www.pets4homes.co.uk

After looking at this one I kept scrolling, quite a few adult bullies for sale for low prices , the trouble is they could easily get into the wrong hands , feel sorry for the dogs

 

[SilverLinings]

After looking at this one I kept scrolling, quite a few adult bullies for sale for low prices , the trouble is they could easily get into the wrong hands , feel sorry for the dogs

It is sad to see dogs for sale for as little as £25; it is far too little for a life, and makes it too easy to be bought without much thought being put into the purchase. Mind you, I am sure some dogs sold for £2k+ are bought by equally poor owners (and this dog may be bought by a good owner).